• lonbordin
  
  

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  Posted: Jun 07, 2010 - 05:17 PM

  Here's my story. I bought a Buccaneer 18 (http://www.buccaneer18.org/) to accommodate my spouse's desires for a sit in "dry" sailing experience. I do enjoy this boat but I grew up sailing mulithulls and my spouse hardly ever comes sailing with me. I can single-hand the Buccaneer but when the wind is going it is definitely more boat that one person can handle (reefing is for sissies!).
  
  I'm a 42 year old fit sailor 6'4" (1.93m) 245 lbs (111kg/17.5 stone). Out of every ten sailing trips my son 11 years old 110lbs (50kg) sails three times and my spouse 5'11" 160lbs (73kg) sails once. So crew weight is typically 245 but could range up to 515 lbs (234kg).
  
  I usually go sailing weekly when the wind catches my notice (10knots or so) on Lake Monroe, Indiana. The "beach" I can launch from is made of crushed stone or I have to use the very inconvenient boat launch which is what I have to do with the Bucc currently. This is very difficult to do solo.
  
  I would like cat that:
  -Is inexpensive.
  -Can be sailed solo by myself and can be righted by myself.
  -Can withstand coming ashore and being loaded/unloaded on a crushed stone "beach". (This kills most of the modern cats (a-class, F18, etc.)
  -Is able to take full crew weight and move (flying a hull is NOT required... being able to go is.)
  
  Anything beyond that is probably asking to much.
  
  I've read quite a bit on this site, Sailing Anarchy and the rest of the web (including The Ultimate Catamaran Buyers Guide which is a wonderful resource).
  
  I'm leaning towards Prindle 19, NACRA 5.5 (and up), Hobie 18(21), Miracle 20, Tornado, 18square.
  
  Where I live Hobie 16's are in abundance but what I've read tells me they can't take the weight. Ditto the NACRA 5.2 and Prindle 16.
  
  I'd like to hear your thoughts/advice. Thanks!!
  
  PS- Anyone want to trade an old Bucc for a multihull???
  
  --
  LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
  Trac 18
  Bloomington, IN
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• MN3
  
  

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  Posted: Jun 07, 2010 - 05:35 PM

  Quote

  
  -Can be sailed solo by myself and can be righted by myself.

  
  Get a righting bag, and you should be able to self right most cats
  
  

  Quote

  -Can withstand coming ashore and being loaded/unloaded on a crushed stone "beach". (This kills most of the modern cats (a-class, F18, etc.)

  
  
  Get beach wheels or else!!! :) , really no cat can take much of that.. unless its made of concrete
  
  

  Quote

  -Is able to take full crew weight and move (flying a hull is NOT required... being able to go is.)

  
  most 18's and up should fit this

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• DamonLinkous
  
  

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  Posted: Jun 07, 2010 - 05:47 PM

  First welcome to the site, you'll find a few big people here including me, although not as big as I used to be (was 255 first of year, 230 now, on my way to 215 I swear!).
  
  Do you have mast-up storage? If not the wide boats (Tornado, 18 Square) probably aren't worth the extra setup)
  
  Is the stone on the beach small fairly smooth stone (pebbles) or are we talking rip-rap type stuff?
  
  The older boats (Hobie 18, Prindle 18, Nacra 5.8?) with solid glass hull bottoms can take some abuse, folks have even been known to add a 2 inch wide strip of extra gelcoat as a sacrificial layer for bad landing conditions.
  
  As you probably know, no boat can be designed to be efficient across a crew weight range of 245-500+ lbs but all the bigger boats can sail with those weights.
  
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  1992 Hobie 18
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• lonbordin
  
  

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  Posted: Jun 07, 2010 - 06:15 PM

  andrewscott

  
  

  Quote

  -Can withstand coming ashore and being loaded/unloaded on a crushed stone "beach". (This kills most of the modern cats (a-class, F18, etc.)

  
  
  Get beach wheels or else!!! :) , really no cat can take much of that.. unless its made of concrete

  
  
  I should have been more explicit. I need to be able to hop off... rest the cat on the "beach" and go grab some beach wheels. I've noticed that the few modern cats at my place won't even let their boats touch land and have people standing by to assist... I won't have that luxury.
  
  Thanks!
  
  
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  LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
  Trac 18
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• lonbordin
  
  

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  Posted: Jun 07, 2010 - 06:26 PM

  damonAdmin

  First welcome to the site, you'll find a few big people here including me, although not as big as I used to be (was 255 first of year, 230 now, on my way to 215 I swear!).
  
  Do you have mast-up storage? If not the wide boats (Tornado, 18 Square) probably aren't worth the extra setup)
  
  Is the stone on the beach small fairly smooth stone (pebbles) or are we talking rip-rap type stuff?
  
  The older boats (Hobie 18, Prindle 18, Nacra 5.8?) with solid glass hull bottoms can take some abuse, folks have even been known to add a 2 inch wide strip of extra gelcoat as a sacrificial layer for bad landing conditions.
  
  As you probably know, no boat can be designed to be efficient across a crew weight range of 245-500+ lbs but all the bigger boats can sail with those weights.

  
  
  I wish I could lose weight but that would be loss of muscle mass and that's something I'm not willing to do.
  
  I do have mast up storage available so it's raise the sails and go! The quicker the setup the happier I'll be.
  
  Not rip rap on the beach... more like this.
  
  Your sacrificial comment got me thinking maybe I can get some sand dumped on the beach... hmmm.
  
  Yeah I know the weight range is ridiculous and I should have said I would like the efficiency to lean more my way as solo than with crew.
  
  Thanks!
  
  
  --
  LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
  Trac 18
  Bloomington, IN
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• MN3
  
  

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  Posted: Jun 07, 2010 - 07:06 PM

  you can carry an anchor, or leave one ready in the water (with a float) so it shouldn't be a bid deal.
  
  people who have new, shiny or serious racers are extremely careful about touching sand/dirt/rocks/explosives but most cats can handle some contact. i have gaskets on my cat and if your on a beach and turn the cat, you will strip off the gasket.
  
  it sounds like you will need a 18-20' cat to handle the weight. the boats you mentioned seem appropriate to me

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• smfinley
  
  

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  Posted: Jun 07, 2010 - 08:15 PM

  I presonally like th wings on the H18M or H21SE. The wings would help keep your wife (and everyone) drier. They also make an 8 foot wide boat feel much bigger then it is. H18 would much easier to single hand then the 21. I am also on the bigger side 6'8" 210lbs. The wing feels more like sitting on a bench while sailing versus sitting on the floor.
  
  I agree that boats 18' and bigger are where you need to be looking.
  
  --
  Scott,
  ‘92 H18 w/SX wings
  ‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
  ‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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• Wolfman
  
  

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  Posted: Jun 07, 2010 - 09:12 PM

  Yep, 18 foot cat the more hull volume the better. Look into the Hobie 18, Prindle 18, Nacra 5.5, Nacra 5.7 and Nacra 5.8. There are lots of boats in 18-20 foot range so you should see what you think works for and look for what's available in your price range.
  
  Check out the buyers guide here:
  http://www.sailingproshop.com/catamaran_guide.aspx
  
  
  Regards,
  Dave
  
  --
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  1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
  1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
  Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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• lonbordin
  
  

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  Posted: Jun 07, 2010 - 09:46 PM

  Wolfman

  Yep, 18 foot cat the more hull volume the better. Look into the Hobie 18, Prindle 18, Nacra 5.5, Nacra 5.7 and Nacra 5.8. There are lots of boats in 18-20 foot range so you should see what you think works for and look for what's available in your price range.
  
  Check out the buyers guide here:
  http://www.sailingproshop.com/catamaran_guide.aspx
  
  
  Regards,
  Dave

  
  
  You'll note I included the Ultimate Catamaran Buyers Guide as a resource in my original post... that's a exceptional resource.
  
  You think the Prindle 18/18-2 have enough float?
  
  
  
  edited by: lonbordin, Jun 07, 2010 - 10:10 PM
  
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• lonbordin
  
  

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  Posted: Jun 07, 2010 - 09:48 PM

  smfinley

  I presonally like th wings on the H18M or H21SE. The wings would help keep your wife (and everyone) drier. They also make an 8 foot wide boat feel much bigger then it is. H18 would much easier to single hand then the 21. I am also on the bigger side 6'8" 210lbs. The wing feels more like sitting on a bench while sailing versus sitting on the floor.
  
  I agree that boats 18' and bigger are where you need to be looking.

  
  
  I've never sailed a cat with wings before... I should try that. Thanks!
  
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  Trac 18
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• lonbordin
  
  

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  Posted: Jun 07, 2010 - 10:05 PM

  As a side note one of the things I'll miss about the Buccaneer is their active class and the amount of information that provides. They answer questions I didn't even think to ask!!!
  
  I haven't found this in the Prindle... any resources I should look at??
  
  PS- I don't race class and don't care about class rules... SPEED RULES.
  
  
  
  edited by: lonbordin, Jun 07, 2010 - 10:05 PM
  
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• MN3
  
  

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  Posted: Jun 07, 2010 - 10:08 PM

  i think just about any 18 has enough (except a dart) hull volume for you and your son
  
  h18 with wings are nice, but heavy (450 ish), and mine (no wings) had soooo much wobble in the hulls...
  
  mystere made a 6.0 with wings (XL) that would def be a good one for you, but self righting can be a bit tricky (even with a bag)

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• Wolfman
  
  

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  Posted: Jun 07, 2010 - 10:32 PM

  Ooops, I should read more carefully. But then lots of people on here would agree.
  
  My understanding is the Prindle 18 has lots of hull volume. Overall I don't think I have ever heard of anyone not liking that cat. But I haven't sailed one myself.
  
  The fact that they aren't made anymore is a bit of a detriment, but fortunately they are well supported and most parts are still being made and available.
  
  There is quite a bit of good info on them in the archived forum and in the technical help on this site. If you have a question normally you can get a reasonable answer (and a couple of unreasonable ones) relatively quickly here or on catsailor.com.
  
  The really active classes in your size range are the F18s and F/N20 classes. Unfortunately these tend to be expensive boats and essentially impossible to solo (for most rec sailors anyway, I'm sure a few guys on here could handle one).
  
  Probably the best idea is to see what's available locally in your size range, see which boat is in the best condition for the price and then weigh the performance options. There is lots of choice in the 18 foot range, I don't think you can go too far astray if you look at Prindles, Nacras and Hobies. There are also a handfull of smaller brands that are great boats but parts can be harder to find (Mysteres for sure if you can find one).
  
  Not sure if I would recommend a Tornado simply because they are pure race boats and at 10 ft wide they are harder to transport. But they are definitely cool!
  
  --
  Dave Bonin
  1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
  1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
  Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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• lonbordin
  
  

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  Posted: Jun 07, 2010 - 11:03 PM

  Wolfman

  
  Not sure if I would recommend a Tornado simply because they are pure race boats and at 10 ft wide they are harder to transport. But they are definitely cool!

  
  
  Once I buy the cat and get it back to my Lake it will never leave! {insert maniacal laughter here.}
  
  I'll just be wheeling it back and forth about 100 yards. So I'm open to Tornadoes or Squares.
  
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• pbegle
  
  

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  Posted: Jun 08, 2010 - 12:09 AM

  There is ONLY one boat for you. First of all you go to Costco & buy a pair of 12' x 16' blue tarps. You lay one down on the beach. Go to Home Depot & buy 6 sheets of white plastic lattice (about $15/sheet); lay atop the tarp. Tie together with nylon ties. Have some of the lattice well into the water. Now you can pull ANY soft bottom boat up the aggregate beach. But why drive a Ford or Chevy when you can have a Ferrari. Tornado is the only way to go. Fast, kick-up CENTERBOARDS and rudders. Big wide tramp & I put forward tramps on mine (have five of them) to throw the light weights forward. Get the power-pole righting & practice near shore. The Classic T's are the best value on the market, but you can spend a little more and get a Sport model. At 73 & 135 #'s, I can single hand to 18 mph (and also have a float atop mast--Baby Bob). Pete

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• beachsailor
  
  

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  Posted: Jun 08, 2010 - 09:26 AM

  I have to agree with Andrew. Put out an anchore with a float. Sail up, get off the boat and tie off to the bridals, furl the jib, ease the main and put up the boards and rudders. let the boat float and go get the tracks. They do this in Dunedin all the time and it works great.
  There are several boats for big guys. I know, I'm 6'4" 245. I sail a Mystere 6.0 and solo alot. But this is not the only option. If the wife wants to stay dry you need to look into wings. Options are a Hobie 21. or 21 sport cruiser(Not easy to right but heavy enough to not be skitish. The hulls are bullet proof. Big enough to take all your friends.) Mystere made some wings but they were not stong enough to support over 450 pounds(ask me how I know). There are some after market wings for Narcras. There was a Nacra 20 in Daytona with wings. Even a Nacra 6.0 NA. I you intend on sailing solo look into power righting systems. with one you should be able to right most cats by yourself.
  I looked at the lake and it looks like a great place to cruise. Lot of interesting shoreline.
  

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• lonbordin
  
  

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  Posted: Jun 08, 2010 - 09:37 AM

  pbegle

  There is ONLY one boat for you. First of all you go to Costco & buy a pair of 12' x 16' blue tarps. You lay one down on the beach. Go to Home Depot & buy 6 sheets of white plastic lattice (about $15/sheet); lay atop the tarp. Tie together with nylon ties. Have some of the lattice well into the water. Now you can pull ANY soft bottom boat up the aggregate beach. But why drive a Ford or Chevy when you can have a Ferrari. Tornado is the only way to go. Fast, kick-up CENTERBOARDS and rudders. Big wide tramp & I put forward tramps on mine (have five of them) to throw the light weights forward. Get the power-pole righting & practice near shore. The Classic T's are the best value on the market, but you can spend a little more and get a Sport model. At 73 & 135 #'s, I can single hand to 18 mph (and also have a float atop mast--Baby Bob). Pete

  
  
  The tarp and lattice is another good idea. I'm thinking instead of tarps heavy duty landscape fabric and then sand on top.
  
  So Prindle pete recommends a Tornado?!
  
  Where do you find an inexpensive Tornado?
  
  All I could find:
  http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa/1732025785.html (too pricey/nice)
  http://www.tornado-class.org/classifieds/index.php (slim pickins')
  
  
  
  
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  Trac 18
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• MN3
  
  

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  Posted: Jun 08, 2010 - 09:48 AM

  Quote

  
  Where do you find an inexpensive Tornado?

  
  inexpensive is subjective. what is your price range? that should have a large impact on your options (not that you can't get a Tornado for under $5k, but a newer one in pristine condition could cost what a new honda costs)
  
  Tornado's were recently tossed out of Olympic competition (extremely unfortunate and not good for the sport) and more and more should be coming available.
  
  Like any specific brand, just gotta keep your eyes out. I have seen quite a few of them for sale recently (this site and others)
  
  dont forget ebay and craigslist
  
  
  
  
  edited by: andrewscott, Jun 08, 2010 - 09:49 AM

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• lonbordin
  
  

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  Posted: Jun 08, 2010 - 09:53 AM

  beachsailor

  I have to agree with Andrew. Put out an anchore with a float. Sail up, get off the boat and tie off to the bridals, furl the jib, ease the main and put up the boards and rudders. let the boat float and go get the tracks. They do this in Dunedin all the time and it works great.
  There are several boats for big guys. I know, I'm 6'4" 245. I sail a Mystere 6.0 and solo alot. But this is not the only option. If the wife wants to stay dry you need to look into wings. Options are a Hobie 21. or 21 sport cruiser(Not easy to right but heavy enough to not be skitish. The hulls are bullet proof. Big enough to take all your friends.) Mystere made some wings but they were not stong enough to support over 450 pounds(ask me how I know). There are some after market wings for Narcras. There was a Nacra 20 in Daytona with wings. Even a Nacra 6.0 NA. I you intend on sailing solo look into power righting systems. with one you should be able to right most cats by yourself.
  I looked at the lake and it looks like a great place to cruise. Lot of interesting shoreline.
  

  
  
  I've got an email in to the people in charge about putting up an anchor/float near the beach. Staying dry is no longer important... she can get wet. It's ok, really. Thanks for more boat recommendations!
  
  As for the shoreline... well I tend to beeline for the middle ASAP as the lake is man made in a deep valley area so the sides are heavily treed and steep which tends to cause some very unusual wind conditions! If you go out after any storms or heavy rains you always have to be aware of large floating logs/branches.
  
  I shouldn't complain at least I'm near the largest lake in Indiana. sigh... I miss the ocean.
  
  
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  Trac 18
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• MN3
  
  

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  Posted: Jun 08, 2010 - 10:12 AM

  Quote

  I've got an email in to the people in charge about putting up an anchor/float near the beach.

  
  
  I actually meant a small anchor you carry. most of my peeps carry one on their cat and simply drop it everywhere we beach. i had an anchor pocket built into my custom front tramp, but proir to that i had a little bag that i used. it was attached to my tramp.
  
  if you dont want to carry it you can simply throw it in the water near your launch spot with a little float (an empty jug, or similar will work) so you can find it. i personally do not like when people leave anchors on the public beach area as they are a hazard to cats beaching.

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