While I'm all for frivolity this brings up a serious point, that being I sail until the lake freezes... The sailing association has long since shuttered for the season and I often have days that I see no one on the lake at all. While I carry a cell phone in a waterproof bag there won't be any help coming for me.
This is the reason why I wondered if anyone here had experience solo self-righting "big" cats.
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Married 18 years and prefers my brunette
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Beachcats for big people, a solicitation for advice
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Posted: Jun 09, 2010 - 09:29 PM
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Posted: Jun 09, 2010 - 09:32 PM
I have righted a SuperCat 20 solo. Not an easy task but can be done with the right conditions. Didn't have a righting bag, but with a SuperCat we had a side shroud extension. Also had a good wind to help push on the tramp. Would not recommend planning on doing it solo though.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
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Posted: Jun 09, 2010 - 10:23 PM
I was able to solo self-right my P18 last season (my first) every time from a side and even once from a turtle (took a while but it came up). No righting system or bag, but I was about 315 lbs at the time. Gotta fix the boat before I can test to see if I can do it now that I am 270.
On a related note the P18 sailed nicely with 600+ pounds (2 XXXL men) hanging off the side. Haven't tried to get out on the wire yet as wind conditions were always variable and gusty. -
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Posted: Jun 09, 2010 - 10:43 PM
i was about 190 when i was able to right my 5.5 (with a bag) but i went through the sail window... reducing the resistance (not the prefered method).
the bag holds around 100lbs of h20 i would guess
i have not been able to right my cat of late even with a bag
.. i doubt its due to the 20lbs i lost.. probably more due to a. not enough wind to get under the tramp and help b. not going through the window -
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Posted: Jun 09, 2010 - 10:48 PM
very serious points and should be considered before sailing solo.
it doesn't sound very safe to sail solo (cat or other) if there is little or no chance of help.
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Posted: Jun 09, 2010 - 11:07 PM
I agree with Andrew on this one (actually on most things surprisingly). Things can go badly VERY quickly when you are by yourself. All it takes is a couple of mishaps in a row and you are in panic mode. I recently discovered this (see this thread for the full story http://www.thebeachcats.com/module-forum-viewtopic-topic-11765.html ). I seriously thought I was going to lose my boat or drown or both and I was on a small lake with lots of people around (even my own family). I can't imagine what would have happened if my dad hadn't come and got me. I can't believe I just wrote that, I'm 38 for crissakes!
D.
edited by: Wolfman, Jun 09, 2010 - 10:07 PM
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Jun 09, 2010 - 11:11 PM
I'm very conscientious and work diligently to minimize risk.
I wear a type 1 PFD at all times and maintain my fitness to the level I could swim ashore from any point in the lake. So the inconvenience\headache and cost of potential damage to the boat are my concerns when it comes to self-righting.
This was one of the reasons I chose my current boat (Buccaneer 18) as it is one of the larger mono-hulls that can be solo self-righted and sailed after a capsize.
That's quite a story Wolfman glad to hear it worked out alright. I always carry spare parts and a leatherman (as well as a host of other items) because... well because... I've been sailing since 1976 and I know what can go wrong will. But I don't have any stories that remotely come close to yours...
edited by: lonbordin, Jun 09, 2010 - 11:48 PM -
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Posted: Jun 10, 2010 - 10:32 AM
Late season sailing the main concern is hypothermia. No mater how close shore is or what systems to have to right the boat. The other concern is injury if there is no one around. If solo and no one around I tend to play on the conservitive side if sailing solo.(ie Furl jib early
The best thing is to flip it on purpose(with other around to help if needed) and see just what it take to right it solo. There are many options that will help. righing pole, water bag, shroud extentions, Hobie bob, or a combination of 2 or more of the above.
The easiest would be a hobie bob(keeps the sail out of the water making righting easier) and a righting pole. easy and quick to deploy. -
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Posted: Jun 10, 2010 - 10:52 AM
I agree. I dumped my cat in Feb this year. It was about 60* (air). i had on fleece underware, a ronstan inshore bib, a fleece sweatshirt, and a ski jacket (wind shell). I couldn't right my cat so a friend dropped off his wife to help me.
We were able to right the cat, but i was soooo weighed down with wet gear, i almost couldn't get on my boat. If i didnt have help, i would have used up more energy and would not have been able to get back on my cat.
I went out and purchased different cold weather gear. -
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Posted: Jun 10, 2010 - 12:44 PM
I am so glad I ended up with a Prindle 18. Lucky really as it was the one that came available at the right time. I regularly have 600+ lbs on it. If I have ended up with a H16 or something I would have been very disappointed.
Congrats on 45lbs less ballast!
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
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Posted: Jun 10, 2010 - 01:34 PM
Thanks. Halfway back to where I should be. I bet the boat will really fly then. -
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Posted: Jun 10, 2010 - 01:54 PM
Just to ease concerns. If the waters is above 40F I sail in a wetsuit (with integrated hood), booties & gloves. I've been out in this gear for hours surfing in January in New England. When the water dips below 40F I put on the dry-suit.
There is a Miracle at my sailing association and I'm going to meet the owner there Friday to take it for a spin. Not sure he will let me practice capsize drills but I'm going to ask.
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Posted: Jun 10, 2010 - 02:25 PM
As long as you know what you are getting into. I think that is what most peoples concern is. There are quite a few people (myself included) who get into catamarans without knowing some of the dangers. Sounds like you have thought things out pretty well.
There are lots of options for helping you right a cat by yourseld (as mentioned above). Chances are you can figure something that will work for a M-20 once you get it. Most people have a tough time solo righting simply because it is unusual that they don't have a crew and/or some help and don't really need to come up with a fool proof method. As discusses above, a righting pole and a mast float (tether ball) would probably do it. If you need more leverage then quick release shroud extensions and a water bag can be added.
Good luck with the test ride. My understanding is that the Miracle is quite a wild ride!
D.
edited by: Wolfman, Jun 10, 2010 - 01:26 PM
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Jun 10, 2010 - 03:28 PM
should be noted that shroud extensions work best with a captive ball style (mast base). If you don't have a captive ball system (can sail with the pin in) you need to figure out a different way to keep your mast on the ball when you loosen your shrouds.
It can be done, but must be a custom setup (like a clam cleat on the mast with a line tied to both sides of the beam) -
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Posted: Jun 11, 2010 - 09:48 AM
Good reminder Andrew. I mentioned the SC20 shroud extension but should have mentioned it has a captive mast base which allows this and extensions are definitely not for every cat design. But will add can make a huge different on the right boat. For example on the 12 foot beam SC20 it allowed me to get the hull past vertical while the mast is still in the water. Then again you had to climb up 12 feet to loosen it also....
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
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Posted: Jun 11, 2010 - 11:19 AM
Yeah, I guess that is true. It isn't clear from the desription of the shroud extenders that you need a captive ball system though.
One thing I was wondering is, what keeps me from sailing my Nacra with the pin in? It doesn't appear to interfear with mast rotation or anything. The one reason I can see is that if you ever dismasted you would likely wreck the mast base casting, step ball and dolphinstriker all at once.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Jun 11, 2010 - 02:48 PM
Sounds like a pretty good reason right there!
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: Jun 11, 2010 - 06:28 PM
Ok... so fractional ownership (1/2 interest) anyone ever do this? I've been offered such on the H20.
The Miracle needs work... several replacement items and one really soft spot on the lower hull.
So do I go in and spend the $$ and time fixing up the H20 or do I just buy a cheap boat of my own?!
I'm pretty sure with a mast float and a righting pole I can right the boat by myself. We had it on it's side today.
My concerns are that it is quite complex and heavy and will take a long time from launch to actually sailing AND take considerable effort in putting it away.
After today I'm thinking boy aren't those Hobie 16's easy?!
At the same time while the winds were light it floats effortlessly through the water. You could feel the caged beast below waiting to burst out.
Why is my life so complex?! I was looking to make it simpler, easier, faster. How do I get myself into these things?! -
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Posted: Jun 11, 2010 - 06:42 PM
Personally I would pass on half interest. If you are going to spend the time and money you should own the thing outright. Not to mention there is always the worry of one partner breaking something and not owning up to it.
There are lots of cats available out there for a reasonable price. No real need to go halfers on one especially if it an older model (maybe an F18 would be worth it).
At your size with any crew the 16 would bog down, but you are right, they are nice for simplicity! Try and find a nice 18 footer and you will probably be more than happy with it. A Prindle 18, Hobie 18 or a Nacra 5.7 or 5.8 would be ideal for you.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Jun 12, 2010 - 04:28 AM
i saw an ad once for an old boat
"cheap or free"
went round to see the guy and it was pretty much a basket case, so i told him i would only be interested if it was free, he said ok
so i asked him where all the parts were and if he could give me a hand rig it as it had sat in storage for many years, we rigged it all up and he was looking very wistful so i told him to go take it out for a good sail
he did
and when he came back asked me if i was interested instead in a half share
i said, like what?, i fix it all up and maintain it and you sail it whenever you want, no thank you!
so he said, fine you can't have the boat
i walked off in disgust
at the end of the season as it was now sailable, only just, he sold it to a newbie for a $300
the noob struggled with it all the next year
and then put it back in storage when he realised what a piece of crap it was.....
moral of the story
if you can afford it
buy a boat of your own
edited by: erice, Jun 12, 2010 - 06:30 PM
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