Here's my story. I bought a Buccaneer 18 (http://www.buccaneer18.org/) to accommodate my spouse's desires for a sit in "dry" sailing experience. I do enjoy this boat but I grew up sailing mulithulls and my spouse hardly ever comes sailing with me. I can single-hand the Buccaneer but when the wind is going it is definitely more boat that one person can handle (reefing is for sissies!).

I'm a 42 year old fit sailor 6'4" (1.93m) 245 lbs (111kg/17.5 stone). Out of every ten sailing trips my son 11 years old 110lbs (50kg) sails three times and my spouse 5'11" 160lbs (73kg) sails once. So crew weight is typically 245 but could range up to 515 lbs (234kg).

I usually go sailing weekly when the wind catches my notice (10knots or so) on Lake Monroe, Indiana. The "beach" I can launch from is made of crushed stone or I have to use the very inconvenient boat launch which is what I have to do with the Bucc currently. This is very difficult to do solo.

I would like cat that:
-Is inexpensive.
-Can be sailed solo by myself and can be righted by myself.
-Can withstand coming ashore and being loaded/unloaded on a crushed stone "beach". (This kills most of the modern cats (a-class, F18, etc.)
-Is able to take full crew weight and move (flying a hull is NOT required... being able to go is.)

Anything beyond that is probably asking to much.

I've read quite a bit on this site, Sailing Anarchy and the rest of the web (including The Ultimate Catamaran Buyers Guide which is a wonderful resource).

I'm leaning towards Prindle 19, NACRA 5.5 (and up), Hobie 18(21), Miracle 20, Tornado, 18square.

Where I live Hobie 16's are in abundance but what I've read tells me they can't take the weight. Ditto the NACRA 5.2 and Prindle 16.

I'd like to hear your thoughts/advice. Thanks!!

PS- Anyone want to trade an old Bucc for a multihull???

--
LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
Trac 18
Bloomington, IN
--

Quote

-Can be sailed solo by myself and can be righted by myself.

Get a righting bag, and you should be able to self right most cats

Quote

-Can withstand coming ashore and being loaded/unloaded on a crushed stone "beach". (This kills most of the modern cats (a-class, F18, etc.)

Get beach wheels or else!!! :) , really no cat can take much of that.. unless its made of concrete

Quote

-Is able to take full crew weight and move (flying a hull is NOT required... being able to go is.)

most 18's and up should fit this

First welcome to the site, you'll find a few big people here including me, although not as big as I used to be (was 255 first of year, 230 now, on my way to 215 I swear!).

Do you have mast-up storage? If not the wide boats (Tornado, 18 Square) probably aren't worth the extra setup)

Is the stone on the beach small fairly smooth stone (pebbles) or are we talking rip-rap type stuff?

The older boats (Hobie 18, Prindle 18, Nacra 5.8?) with solid glass hull bottoms can take some abuse, folks have even been known to add a 2 inch wide strip of extra gelcoat as a sacrificial layer for bad landing conditions.

As you probably know, no boat can be designed to be efficient across a crew weight range of 245-500+ lbs but all the bigger boats can sail with those weights.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

andrewscott

Quote

-Can withstand coming ashore and being loaded/unloaded on a crushed stone "beach". (This kills most of the modern cats (a-class, F18, etc.)

Get beach wheels or else!!! :) , really no cat can take much of that.. unless its made of concrete

I should have been more explicit. I need to be able to hop off... rest the cat on the "beach" and go grab some beach wheels. I've noticed that the few modern cats at my place won't even let their boats touch land and have people standing by to assist... I won't have that luxury.

Thanks!


--
LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
Trac 18
Bloomington, IN
--

damonAdmin

First welcome to the site, you'll find a few big people here including me, although not as big as I used to be (was 255 first of year, 230 now, on my way to 215 I swear!).

Do you have mast-up storage? If not the wide boats (Tornado, 18 Square) probably aren't worth the extra setup)

Is the stone on the beach small fairly smooth stone (pebbles) or are we talking rip-rap type stuff?

The older boats (Hobie 18, Prindle 18, Nacra 5.8?) with solid glass hull bottoms can take some abuse, folks have even been known to add a 2 inch wide strip of extra gelcoat as a sacrificial layer for bad landing conditions.

As you probably know, no boat can be designed to be efficient across a crew weight range of 245-500+ lbs but all the bigger boats can sail with those weights.

I wish I could lose weight but that would be loss of muscle mass and that's something I'm not willing to do.

I do have mast up storage available so it's raise the sails and go! The quicker the setup the happier I'll be.

Not rip rap on the beach... more like this.

Your sacrificial comment got me thinking maybe I can get some sand dumped on the beach... hmmm.

Yeah I know the weight range is ridiculous and I should have said I would like the efficiency to lean more my way as solo than with crew.

Thanks!


--
LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
Trac 18
Bloomington, IN
--

you can carry an anchor, or leave one ready in the water (with a float) so it shouldn't be a bid deal.

people who have new, shiny or serious racers are extremely careful about touching sand/dirt/rocks/explosives but most cats can handle some contact. i have gaskets on my cat and if your on a beach and turn the cat, you will strip off the gasket.

it sounds like you will need a 18-20' cat to handle the weight. the boats you mentioned seem appropriate to me

I presonally like th wings on the H18M or H21SE. The wings would help keep your wife (and everyone) drier. They also make an 8 foot wide boat feel much bigger then it is. H18 would much easier to single hand then the 21. I am also on the bigger side 6'8" 210lbs. The wing feels more like sitting on a bench while sailing versus sitting on the floor.

I agree that boats 18' and bigger are where you need to be looking.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

Yep, 18 foot cat the more hull volume the better. Look into the Hobie 18, Prindle 18, Nacra 5.5, Nacra 5.7 and Nacra 5.8. There are lots of boats in 18-20 foot range so you should see what you think works for and look for what's available in your price range.

Check out the buyers guide here:
http://www.sailingproshop.com/catamaran_guide.aspx


Regards,
Dave

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

Wolfman

Yep, 18 foot cat the more hull volume the better. Look into the Hobie 18, Prindle 18, Nacra 5.5, Nacra 5.7 and Nacra 5.8. There are lots of boats in 18-20 foot range so you should see what you think works for and look for what's available in your price range.

Check out the buyers guide here:
http://www.sailingproshop.com/catamaran_guide.aspx


Regards,
Dave

You'll note I included the Ultimate Catamaran Buyers Guide as a resource in my original post... that's a exceptional resource.

You think the Prindle 18/18-2 have enough float?



edited by: lonbordin, Jun 07, 2010 - 10:10 PM

--
LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
Trac 18
Bloomington, IN
--

smfinley

I presonally like th wings on the H18M or H21SE. The wings would help keep your wife (and everyone) drier. They also make an 8 foot wide boat feel much bigger then it is. H18 would much easier to single hand then the 21. I am also on the bigger side 6'8" 210lbs. The wing feels more like sitting on a bench while sailing versus sitting on the floor.

I agree that boats 18' and bigger are where you need to be looking.

I've never sailed a cat with wings before... I should try that. Thanks!

--
LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
Trac 18
Bloomington, IN
--

As a side note one of the things I'll miss about the Buccaneer is their active class and the amount of information that provides. They answer questions I didn't even think to ask!!!

I haven't found this in the Prindle... any resources I should look at??

PS- I don't race class and don't care about class rules... SPEED RULES.



edited by: lonbordin, Jun 07, 2010 - 10:05 PM

--
LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
Trac 18
Bloomington, IN
--

i think just about any 18 has enough (except a dart) hull volume for you and your son

h18 with wings are nice, but heavy (450 ish), and mine (no wings) had soooo much wobble in the hulls...

mystere made a 6.0 with wings (XL) that would def be a good one for you, but self righting can be a bit tricky (even with a bag)

Ooops, I should read more carefully. But then lots of people on here would agree.

My understanding is the Prindle 18 has lots of hull volume. Overall I don't think I have ever heard of anyone not liking that cat. But I haven't sailed one myself.

The fact that they aren't made anymore is a bit of a detriment, but fortunately they are well supported and most parts are still being made and available.

There is quite a bit of good info on them in the archived forum and in the technical help on this site. If you have a question normally you can get a reasonable answer (and a couple of unreasonable ones) relatively quickly here or on catsailor.com.

The really active classes in your size range are the F18s and F/N20 classes. Unfortunately these tend to be expensive boats and essentially impossible to solo (for most rec sailors anyway, I'm sure a few guys on here could handle one).

Probably the best idea is to see what's available locally in your size range, see which boat is in the best condition for the price and then weigh the performance options. There is lots of choice in the 18 foot range, I don't think you can go too far astray if you look at Prindles, Nacras and Hobies. There are also a handfull of smaller brands that are great boats but parts can be harder to find (Mysteres for sure if you can find one).

Not sure if I would recommend a Tornado simply because they are pure race boats and at 10 ft wide they are harder to transport. But they are definitely cool!

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

Wolfman

Not sure if I would recommend a Tornado simply because they are pure race boats and at 10 ft wide they are harder to transport. But they are definitely cool!

Once I buy the cat and get it back to my Lake it will never leave! {insert maniacal laughter here.}

I'll just be wheeling it back and forth about 100 yards. So I'm open to Tornadoes or Squares.

--
LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
Trac 18
Bloomington, IN
--

There is ONLY one boat for you. First of all you go to Costco & buy a pair of 12' x 16' blue tarps. You lay one down on the beach. Go to Home Depot & buy 6 sheets of white plastic lattice (about $15/sheet); lay atop the tarp. Tie together with nylon ties. Have some of the lattice well into the water. Now you can pull ANY soft bottom boat up the aggregate beach. But why drive a Ford or Chevy when you can have a Ferrari. Tornado is the only way to go. Fast, kick-up CENTERBOARDS and rudders. Big wide tramp & I put forward tramps on mine (have five of them) to throw the light weights forward. Get the power-pole righting & practice near shore. The Classic T's are the best value on the market, but you can spend a little more and get a Sport model. At 73 & 135 #'s, I can single hand to 18 mph (and also have a float atop mast--Baby Bob). Pete

I have to agree with Andrew. Put out an anchore with a float. Sail up, get off the boat and tie off to the bridals, furl the jib, ease the main and put up the boards and rudders. let the boat float and go get the tracks. They do this in Dunedin all the time and it works great.
There are several boats for big guys. I know, I'm 6'4" 245. I sail a Mystere 6.0 and solo alot. But this is not the only option. If the wife wants to stay dry you need to look into wings. Options are a Hobie 21. or 21 sport cruiser(Not easy to right but heavy enough to not be skitish. The hulls are bullet proof. Big enough to take all your friends.) Mystere made some wings but they were not stong enough to support over 450 pounds(ask me how I know). There are some after market wings for Narcras. There was a Nacra 20 in Daytona with wings. Even a Nacra 6.0 NA. I you intend on sailing solo look into power righting systems. with one you should be able to right most cats by yourself.
I looked at the lake and it looks like a great place to cruise. Lot of interesting shoreline.

pbegle

There is ONLY one boat for you. First of all you go to Costco & buy a pair of 12' x 16' blue tarps. You lay one down on the beach. Go to Home Depot & buy 6 sheets of white plastic lattice (about $15/sheet); lay atop the tarp. Tie together with nylon ties. Have some of the lattice well into the water. Now you can pull ANY soft bottom boat up the aggregate beach. But why drive a Ford or Chevy when you can have a Ferrari. Tornado is the only way to go. Fast, kick-up CENTERBOARDS and rudders. Big wide tramp & I put forward tramps on mine (have five of them) to throw the light weights forward. Get the power-pole righting & practice near shore. The Classic T's are the best value on the market, but you can spend a little more and get a Sport model. At 73 & 135 #'s, I can single hand to 18 mph (and also have a float atop mast--Baby Bob). Pete

The tarp and lattice is another good idea. I'm thinking instead of tarps heavy duty landscape fabric and then sand on top.

So Prindle pete recommends a Tornado?!

Where do you find an inexpensive Tornado?

All I could find:
http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa/1732025785.html (too pricey/nice)
http://www.tornado-class.org/classifieds/index.php (slim pickins')




--
LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
Trac 18
Bloomington, IN
--

Quote

Where do you find an inexpensive Tornado?

inexpensive is subjective. what is your price range? that should have a large impact on your options (not that you can't get a Tornado for under $5k, but a newer one in pristine condition could cost what a new honda costs)

Tornado's were recently tossed out of Olympic competition (extremely unfortunate and not good for the sport) and more and more should be coming available.

Like any specific brand, just gotta keep your eyes out. I have seen quite a few of them for sale recently (this site and others)

dont forget ebay and craigslist




edited by: andrewscott, Jun 08, 2010 - 09:49 AM

beachsailor

I have to agree with Andrew. Put out an anchore with a float. Sail up, get off the boat and tie off to the bridals, furl the jib, ease the main and put up the boards and rudders. let the boat float and go get the tracks. They do this in Dunedin all the time and it works great.
There are several boats for big guys. I know, I'm 6'4" 245. I sail a Mystere 6.0 and solo alot. But this is not the only option. If the wife wants to stay dry you need to look into wings. Options are a Hobie 21. or 21 sport cruiser(Not easy to right but heavy enough to not be skitish. The hulls are bullet proof. Big enough to take all your friends.) Mystere made some wings but they were not stong enough to support over 450 pounds(ask me how I know). There are some after market wings for Narcras. There was a Nacra 20 in Daytona with wings. Even a Nacra 6.0 NA. I you intend on sailing solo look into power righting systems. with one you should be able to right most cats by yourself.
I looked at the lake and it looks like a great place to cruise. Lot of interesting shoreline.

I've got an email in to the people in charge about putting up an anchor/float near the beach. Staying dry is no longer important... she can get wet. It's ok, really. Thanks for more boat recommendations!

As for the shoreline... well I tend to beeline for the middle ASAP as the lake is man made in a deep valley area so the sides are heavily treed and steep which tends to cause some very unusual wind conditions! If you go out after any storms or heavy rains you always have to be aware of large floating logs/branches.

I shouldn't complain at least I'm near the largest lake in Indiana. sigh... I miss the ocean.


--
LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
Trac 18
Bloomington, IN
--

Quote

I've got an email in to the people in charge about putting up an anchor/float near the beach.

I actually meant a small anchor you carry. most of my peeps carry one on their cat and simply drop it everywhere we beach. i had an anchor pocket built into my custom front tramp, but proir to that i had a little bag that i used. it was attached to my tramp.

if you dont want to carry it you can simply throw it in the water near your launch spot with a little float (an empty jug, or similar will work) so you can find it. i personally do not like when people leave anchors on the public beach area as they are a hazard to cats beaching.

andrewscott

Quote

Where do you find an inexpensive Tornado?

inexpensive is subjective. what is your price range? that should have a large impact on your options (not that you can't get a Tornado for under $5k, but a newer one in pristine condition could cost what a new honda costs)

Tornado's were recently tossed out of Olympic competition (extremely unfortunate and not good for the sport) and more and more should be coming available.

Like any specific brand, just gotta keep your eyes out. I have seen quite a few of them for sale recently (this site and others)

dont forget ebay and craigslist
edited by: andrewscott, Jun 08, 2010 - 09:49 AM

Ebay check
Craiglook check
many other sites check
Keeping my virtual eyes skinned!

I haven't set an exact price... I'd go up for the right boat. One of the biggest issues is that I seem to be 1,500 miles (2414 km) from all the cats. sigh... fly-over country whatcha' going to do?!


--
LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
Trac 18
Bloomington, IN
--

another option would be to get a smaller cat (if they are more available) for your first season. well used cats are pretty stable in price/value and you could simply purchase one that is local and convenient until you find your dream cat.

There is a local guy who weighs more than you and he does ok on a H16 (solo), esp in 15+.

another factor here that i just thought of is... if you get a Tornado, or P18/19, H18 etc... you better be in super duper duper shape if you plan to ba able to drag that up a beach solo. these cats all weigh 400+ and are tough to get up a beach even with 2 people sometimes (esp if you haven't emptied the keg, or have taken on some water).

I can "sail" my cat up the beach solo with the right wind conditions, but typically the wind doesn't cooperate

pbegle

Tornado is the only way to go. Fast, kick-up CENTERBOARDS and rudders. Big wide tramp & I put forward tramps on mine (have five of them) to throw the light weights forward. Get the power-pole righting & practice near shore. The Classic T's are the best value on the market, but you can spend a little more and get a Sport model. At 73 & 135 #'s, I can single hand to 18 mph (and also have a float atop mast--Baby Bob). Pete

I see you have an add now... but you're 1710 miles away.


--
LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
Trac 18
Bloomington, IN
--

I'm sure a tornado would do the trick. (wouldn't mind one myself) but don't count out the P18. Mine never has less than 400lbs crew weight and has sailed great with over 600lbs.

--
Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
--

Yes, but if you come out, you can race a T on a fresh water lake with white caps in PM, or climb the range behind us & ski a bowl that will be there til July this year.

One of these days I'm gonna have to arrange a camping weekend with the family at Big Bear Pete and come your setup. It sure sounds you have a lot of fun.

--
Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
--

pbegle

Yes, but if you come out, you can race a T on a fresh water lake with white caps in PM, or climb the range behind us & ski a bowl that will be there til July this year.

OK, the bowl sounds fun (I'm a hardboot snowboarder)... I get enough fresh water at home (yuck.).

But 1710 miles one way...it's too much. Maybe I'll be desperate later.

--
LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
Trac 18
Bloomington, IN
--

Well, you are only 600 miles from here, http://www.aquarius-sail.com/ and there should be a selection of supercats around. I think SC19's had dagger boards and it sounds like you might want to avoid those if there are as many underwater hazards as you say. Just my two bits.

--
Cranbrook, BC, Canada
SuperCat 17
--

We have a small airport here and could probably arrange a helicopter drop-in. My son (ski instructor) and a friend (tennis instructor) would love to go). Pete

Quote

. I think SC19's had dagger boards

it does have boards but it is the same hull shape as the 15/17 and they are boardless. you can sail without them... but i agree they may not be desirable with underwater hazards (but then again.. rudders go underwater i think)

Dagger-boards are fine as are centerboards. I don't mind the risk.

Is there much in the way of SuperCat info or parts available?

yes, they are still sold by aquarius (aquarius-sail.com) in florida. parts are available.

this is a fun, fast and especially wet cat. if staying dry is at all a consideration, this is not your boat. if getting wet is desired... (get it) :)

also note the stock trampoline is open mesh and know to remove a few layers of skin. the sc17 i sail with uses knee pads EVERY sail... although he is a racer and VERY serious about it (meaning a casual sailor may not grind off skin with every tack)

So a Hobie 20 (Miracle) has presented itself as the leading contender for my affection.

Thoughts and opinions? Any special things I should look out for in the H20?

Great boat! From what I have read anyway, I was looking at buying one just before I got my boat. I figured that a 20 was a little much for my first boat. I have heard since then that they sail really well and tend to behave themselves. Quite a bit of boat to handle by yourself but if you rig it right you should be able to do it. It's basically a narrow Tornado with high aspect daggerboards. Overall a very fast boat!

I don't think there is anything special to look for except the normal foam sandwich catamaran problems. Soft spots in the hulls, stress cracking around the beams, hull tangs for rigging and transom, worn out keels etc.



edited by: Wolfman, Jun 08, 2010 - 11:08 PM

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

I'm really concerned about self-righting the H 20... It seems the wisdom of the internet says no... what say thebeachcats forum?

--
LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
Trac 18
Bloomington, IN
--

i say a man of your size could/should/may be able to right a 20' cat if:

the mast is 100% sealed (you can do this with a tube of silicone)

and you have a righting bag/pole


I have only 1 time been able to self right my cat. i am noW carrying 2 righting bags



edited by: andrewscott, Jun 09, 2010 - 05:43 PM

Anyone have experience solo self righting H18+, NACRA 5.8+, etc?

Should I make this a new thread?



edited by: lonbordin, Jun 09, 2010 - 05:10 PM

i have self righted a h18... with a righting bag.

you are not going to self right almost ANY cat (in your range) without some aid (bag/pole/blonde)

What this blonde thing you speak of?

during my last 2 capsizes (this year) i could not get my cat to right so i had other boats in the area drop of a crew member to assist. on both occasions they were very nice and attractive females. Unfortunately the skippers required me to return them :)

While I'm all for frivolity this brings up a serious point, that being I sail until the lake freezes... The sailing association has long since shuttered for the season and I often have days that I see no one on the lake at all. While I carry a cell phone in a waterproof bag there won't be any help coming for me.

This is the reason why I wondered if anyone here had experience solo self-righting "big" cats.

--
Married 18 years and prefers my brunette

--

I have righted a SuperCat 20 solo. Not an easy task but can be done with the right conditions. Didn't have a righting bag, but with a SuperCat we had a side shroud extension. Also had a good wind to help push on the tramp. Would not recommend planning on doing it solo though.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

I was able to solo self-right my P18 last season (my first) every time from a side and even once from a turtle (took a while but it came up). No righting system or bag, but I was about 315 lbs at the time. Gotta fix the boat before I can test to see if I can do it now that I am 270.
On a related note the P18 sailed nicely with 600+ pounds (2 XXXL men) hanging off the side. Haven't tried to get out on the wire yet as wind conditions were always variable and gusty.

i was about 190 when i was able to right my 5.5 (with a bag) but i went through the sail window... reducing the resistance (not the prefered method).

the bag holds around 100lbs of h20 i would guess

i have not been able to right my cat of late even with a bag
.. i doubt its due to the 20lbs i lost.. probably more due to a. not enough wind to get under the tramp and help b. not going through the window

Quote

The sailing association has long since shuttered for the season and I often have days that I see no one on the lake at all. While I carry a cell phone in a waterproof bag there won't be any help coming for me.

very serious points and should be considered before sailing solo.
it doesn't sound very safe to sail solo (cat or other) if there is little or no chance of help.

I agree with Andrew on this one (actually on most things surprisingly). Things can go badly VERY quickly when you are by yourself. All it takes is a couple of mishaps in a row and you are in panic mode. I recently discovered this (see this thread for the full story http://www.thebeachcats.com/module-forum-viewtopic-topic-11765.html ). I seriously thought I was going to lose my boat or drown or both and I was on a small lake with lots of people around (even my own family). I can't imagine what would have happened if my dad hadn't come and got me. I can't believe I just wrote that, I'm 38 for crissakes!

D.



edited by: Wolfman, Jun 09, 2010 - 10:07 PM

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

I'm very conscientious and work diligently to minimize risk.

I wear a type 1 PFD at all times and maintain my fitness to the level I could swim ashore from any point in the lake. So the inconvenience\headache and cost of potential damage to the boat are my concerns when it comes to self-righting.

This was one of the reasons I chose my current boat (Buccaneer 18) as it is one of the larger mono-hulls that can be solo self-righted and sailed after a capsize.

That's quite a story Wolfman glad to hear it worked out alright. I always carry spare parts and a leatherman (as well as a host of other items) because... well because... I've been sailing since 1976 and I know what can go wrong will. But I don't have any stories that remotely come close to yours...



edited by: lonbordin, Jun 09, 2010 - 11:48 PM

Late season sailing the main concern is hypothermia. No mater how close shore is or what systems to have to right the boat. The other concern is injury if there is no one around. If solo and no one around I tend to play on the conservitive side if sailing solo.(ie Furl jib early
The best thing is to flip it on purpose(with other around to help if needed) and see just what it take to right it solo. There are many options that will help. righing pole, water bag, shroud extentions, Hobie bob, or a combination of 2 or more of the above.
The easiest would be a hobie bob(keeps the sail out of the water making righting easier) and a righting pole. easy and quick to deploy.

Quote

Late season sailing the main concern is hypothermia.

I agree. I dumped my cat in Feb this year. It was about 60* (air). i had on fleece underware, a ronstan inshore bib, a fleece sweatshirt, and a ski jacket (wind shell). I couldn't right my cat so a friend dropped off his wife to help me.

We were able to right the cat, but i was soooo weighed down with wet gear, i almost couldn't get on my boat. If i didnt have help, i would have used up more energy and would not have been able to get back on my cat.

I went out and purchased different cold weather gear.

Rider_55

I was able to solo self-right my P18 last season (my first) every time from a side and even once from a turtle (took a while but it came up). No righting system or bag, but I was about 315 lbs at the time. Gotta fix the boat before I can test to see if I can do it now that I am 270.
On a related note the P18 sailed nicely with 600+ pounds (2 XXXL men) hanging off the side. Haven't tried to get out on the wire yet as wind conditions were always variable and gusty.

I am so glad I ended up with a Prindle 18. Lucky really as it was the one that came available at the right time. I regularly have 600+ lbs on it. If I have ended up with a H16 or something I would have been very disappointed.

Congrats on 45lbs less ballast!

--
Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
--

Quarath

Congrats on 45lbs less ballast!

Thanks. Halfway back to where I should be. I bet the boat will really fly then.

beachsailor

Late season sailing the main concern is hypothermia. No mater how close shore is or what systems to have to right the boat. The other concern is injury if there is no one around. If solo and no one around I tend to play on the conservitive side if sailing solo.(ie Furl jib early
The best thing is to flip it on purpose(with other around to help if needed) and see just what it take to right it solo. There are many options that will help. righing pole, water bag, shroud extentions, Hobie bob, or a combination of 2 or more of the above.
The easiest would be a hobie bob(keeps the sail out of the water making righting easier) and a righting pole. easy and quick to deploy.

Just to ease concerns. If the waters is above 40F I sail in a wetsuit (with integrated hood), booties & gloves. I've been out in this gear for hours surfing in January in New England. When the water dips below 40F I put on the dry-suit.

There is a Miracle at my sailing association and I'm going to meet the owner there Friday to take it for a spin. Not sure he will let me practice capsize drills but I'm going to ask.

As long as you know what you are getting into. I think that is what most peoples concern is. There are quite a few people (myself included) who get into catamarans without knowing some of the dangers. Sounds like you have thought things out pretty well.

There are lots of options for helping you right a cat by yourseld (as mentioned above). Chances are you can figure something that will work for a M-20 once you get it. Most people have a tough time solo righting simply because it is unusual that they don't have a crew and/or some help and don't really need to come up with a fool proof method. As discusses above, a righting pole and a mast float (tether ball) would probably do it. If you need more leverage then quick release shroud extensions and a water bag can be added.

Good luck with the test ride. My understanding is that the Miracle is quite a wild ride!

D.



edited by: Wolfman, Jun 10, 2010 - 01:26 PM

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

should be noted that shroud extensions work best with a captive ball style (mast base). If you don't have a captive ball system (can sail with the pin in) you need to figure out a different way to keep your mast on the ball when you loosen your shrouds.

It can be done, but must be a custom setup (like a clam cleat on the mast with a line tied to both sides of the beam)

Quote

should be noted that shroud extensions work best with a captive ball style (mast base).

Good reminder Andrew. I mentioned the SC20 shroud extension but should have mentioned it has a captive mast base which allows this and extensions are definitely not for every cat design. But will add can make a huge different on the right boat. For example on the 12 foot beam SC20 it allowed me to get the hull past vertical while the mast is still in the water. Then again you had to climb up 12 feet to loosen it also....

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

Yeah, I guess that is true. It isn't clear from the desription of the shroud extenders that you need a captive ball system though.

One thing I was wondering is, what keeps me from sailing my Nacra with the pin in? It doesn't appear to interfear with mast rotation or anything. The one reason I can see is that if you ever dismasted you would likely wreck the mast base casting, step ball and dolphinstriker all at once.

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

Wolfman

...what keeps me from sailing my Nacra with the pin in? ...if you ever dismasted you would likely wreck the mast base casting, step ball and dolphinstriker all at once.

Sounds like a pretty good reason right there!


--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

Ok... so fractional ownership (1/2 interest) anyone ever do this? I've been offered such on the H20.

The Miracle needs work... several replacement items and one really soft spot on the lower hull.

So do I go in and spend the $$ and time fixing up the H20 or do I just buy a cheap boat of my own?!

I'm pretty sure with a mast float and a righting pole I can right the boat by myself. We had it on it's side today.

My concerns are that it is quite complex and heavy and will take a long time from launch to actually sailing AND take considerable effort in putting it away.

After today I'm thinking boy aren't those Hobie 16's easy?!

At the same time while the winds were light it floats effortlessly through the water. You could feel the caged beast below waiting to burst out.

Why is my life so complex?! I was looking to make it simpler, easier, faster. How do I get myself into these things?!

Personally I would pass on half interest. If you are going to spend the time and money you should own the thing outright. Not to mention there is always the worry of one partner breaking something and not owning up to it.

There are lots of cats available out there for a reasonable price. No real need to go halfers on one especially if it an older model (maybe an F18 would be worth it).

At your size with any crew the 16 would bog down, but you are right, they are nice for simplicity! Try and find a nice 18 footer and you will probably be more than happy with it. A Prindle 18, Hobie 18 or a Nacra 5.7 or 5.8 would be ideal for you.

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

i saw an ad once for an old boat

"cheap or free"

went round to see the guy and it was pretty much a basket case, so i told him i would only be interested if it was free, he said ok

so i asked him where all the parts were and if he could give me a hand rig it as it had sat in storage for many years, we rigged it all up and he was looking very wistful so i told him to go take it out for a good sail

he did

and when he came back asked me if i was interested instead in a half share

i said, like what?, i fix it all up and maintain it and you sail it whenever you want, no thank you!

so he said, fine you can't have the boat

i walked off in disgust

at the end of the season as it was now sailable, only just, he sold it to a newbie for a $300

the noob struggled with it all the next year

and then put it back in storage when he realised what a piece of crap it was.....

moral of the story

if you can afford it

buy a boat of your own





edited by: erice, Jun 12, 2010 - 06:30 PM

lonbordin

Ok... so fractional ownership (1/2 interest) anyone ever do this? I've been offered such on the H20.

Run, don't walk, away from that deal.

I've known best friends who crewed together for years have a major falling out over joint boat ownership. Can't imagine it working out with a stranger, to many chances for differing opinions on when and what to do with the boat and what to spend on it.

also, how would you price such a thing? Used Hobie 20's aren't really going for good prices now because they were the hotrod ride of the top sailors just before the spinnaker boats took over. You have better options.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

Wolfman/erice/damonAdmin-

I will be passing on the H20. Thank you all for the sage advice. I had my doubts and your advice bolstered them.

Back to the hunt.

Query: of all the big cats suitable for me which do you think has the best light air, less than 10k, performance?



edited by: lonbordin, Jun 12, 2010 - 08:55 PM

I know that the supercat 20, with the 12' beams is easily managed. It was one of the largest singlehanded boats to ever sail in round texel.

P18 are always nice as well.

--
Stefan, Denmark.
H14,H16,P16,P18,SC17,N5.8
Team StaySail
http://www.staysail.eu
--

Yes, my understanding is that the Prindles are generally good performers and good in light air due to their high hull volume. All the big cats tend to be pretty good in light conditions though. Look for boats a large deck sweeping jib for improved light air performance too.

After all the discussion it sounds like the Prindle 19, Nacra 5.8 and Miracle 20 (sorry) would be particularly good choices for you. Just be aware that ALL three are beasts to sail in heavy winds and very very fast (sounds like what you want).

That being said I don't think I would pass up any of the boats made by those three manufacturers in the 18-20 ft market if they are in good condition and the price is right.

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

Quote

Query: of all the big cats suitable for me which do you think has the best light air, less than 10k, performance?

I think a SC20 would be a good boat for you in the above mentioned conditions. Solo they are a blast in 10k wind, above that you need extra crew, even with the 12' beam. But if you plan to do a lot of solo sailing probably something a little smaller is better. It is heavier then some but has lots of power. Older design but a fun and wet ride. I wouldn't recommend a SC20 to most people due to setup time, but if you can leave mast up it is a fun boat to sail. Might also have trouble with beachwheels however, rolling it up the beach is hard.


--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

I've been doing a spreadsheet of cats so that I can make an informed choice.

There is some monohulls in the list just for comparison purposes. Sorted by weight then Portsmouth value.
If I think the H20 is a beast at 420... the SC20 is a giant at 465. I have the ability to store mast up, though.

Anyone got a Taipan 5.7?!

.
CLASS NAPY D-PN Weight

.
RS 700 spi RS700 73.3 120

.
A Class Cat AC 64.5 150

.
A Class Cat >200# allup AC2 70.5 150

.
49er (Int.) 49 68.2 164

.
Taipan 4.9 Slp no spi T4.9 68.2 231

.
Taipan 4.9 Uni 1up no sp T4.9U 69.5 231

.
Formula 16 spi F16 63 235

.
Taipan 5.7 Sloop w/spi T5.7 60.7 270

.
Nacra 17 Uni no spi N17 73.2 275

.
Mystere 5.0 1Trap M5.0 75.6 300

.
Mystere 5.0 XL 2up M5.0XL 75.6 300

.
GCat 5.0Turbo1up rchr G5.03 72.2 325

.
SuperCat 17 SC17 73.9 325

.
Nacra 18 Slp spi (NI18) N18 64.6 330

.
Sol Cat 18 SOL18 74.9 330

.
Hobie Tiger ODR spi HTIG 62.1 340

.
Tornado 1trap no spi TORN2 63.9 340

.
Nacra 5.5 Slp 8.5' N5.5 67 340

.
Hobie FXOne spi 1up HFX1 S 68.5 340


.
Nacra 5.5 Uni 8.5' N5.5U 69.7 340

.
Hobie FXOne jib n/s HFX1T 70.1 340

.
Hobie 17 (1up) H17 74 340

.
Hobie 17 Sport Slp 2up H17P 74.5 340

.
Hobie 16 H16 76 340

.
Nacra F17 Uni spi NF17 66.7 343

.
Trac 18 TRC18 67.5 349

.
Nacra 5.2 Slp 2up N5.2 72.1 350

.
Prindle 18 P18 74.8 350

.
Dart 20 Slp 2up D20 72.5 353

.
Nacra 570 2up N570 70.5 360

.
Nacra 5.7 2up N5.7 72.6 360

.
Prindle 18-2 P182 69.1 365

.
Prindle 19MX no spi P19MX 64.4 375

.
Prindle 19 P19 66.4 375

.
SuperCat 19X & 19XL SC19X 66.5 375

.
18m2 (Cat.2 incl 11' N5.5) 18SM2 67.2 375

.
SuperCat 19 SC19 69 375

.
Nacra 5.8 No.Amer. 2up N5.8NA 66.5 390

.
Nacra 5.8 Orig. 2up N5.8 66.6 390


.
GCat 5.7m G5.7 73.2 390

.
Formula 18 Slp spi F18 62.4 396

.
Mystere 5.5 XL 1up M5.5XL 64.2 400

.
Mystere 5.5 Slp M5.5 66.2 400

.
Hobie 18 Formula H18F 71.2 400

.
Hobie 18 & 18 Magnum H18 71.4 400

.
Hobie Fox spi HFOX 60.4 419

.
Hobie 20 Miracle H20 65 420

.
Hobie SX18 spi H18SX 71.3 420

.
Mystere 6.0 M6.0 63.9 425

.
Mystere 6.0XL & w/wing M6.0XL 64.2 430

.
SuperCat 20 TallRig n/s SC20H 63.8 465

.
SuperCat 20 33' mast n/s SC20 65 465

.
Nacra 6.0 350sf spi N6.0NE 60.4 472

.
Nacra 6.0 No.Amer. 2up N6.0NA 62.6 472

.
Nacra 6.0 Orig. 2up N6.0 64.2 472

.
Hobie 21 no spi H21 67 475

.
Sol Cat 20 SOL20 70 475

.
Hobie 21 Sport Cruiser H21P 74.5 475

.
Buccaneer 18' spi (SWN18) BCN 86.9 525



edited by: lonbordin, Jun 13, 2010 - 08:41 PM

--
LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
Trac 18
Bloomington, IN
--

Oh man, I only wish we could get some of those Aussie boats out here. A few make it over but not nearly enough.

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

Taipan 5.7. Here's one.
http://new-england-catamarans.com/hot.html

IMHO you're working/thinking to hard at this.

go buy a hobie or a prindle or the Taipan and get sailing already!

get a smaller one you can right until you are confidant with a bigger one. keep crew to a min until you have a cat that can handle them (or only take crew on heavy air days).

this sat i helped a capsized h16 with about 500 (or more) weight on it. they sailed ok in 18mph wind

andrewscott

IMHO you're working/thinking to hard at this.

go buy a hobie or a prindle or the Taipan and get sailing already!

get a smaller one you can right until you are confidant with a bigger one. keep crew to a min until you have a cat that can handle them (or only take crew on heavy air days).

this sat i helped a capsized h16 with about 500 (or more) weight on it. they sailed ok in 18mph wind

I humbly disagree.
I am sailing ... sailed Friday on the H20 and Sat & Sun on the Buccaneer.
I also live in a catamaran light zone of the USA. If I was living in your area (I was born and lived until 20 in St.Pete) it would be a lot easier.

As example in thebeachcats.com for sale forum the nearest cat is 130 miles away with the next nearest cat being 210 miles away, etc.

Thanks for all the advice so far!



edited by: lonbordin, Jun 14, 2010 - 10:33 AM

--
LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
Trac 18
Bloomington, IN
--

lonbordin

I humbly disagree.
I am sailing ... sailed Friday on the H20 and Sat & Sun on the Buccaneer.

the nearest cat is 130 miles away with the next nearest cat being 210 miles away, etc.

I guess i am a bit spoiled with the abundance of boats around..

ok, fine ... carry on~! :~p

Your not in a total beachcat vacuum. I did a 30 second search of Indianapolis craigs list and saw 2 H18's and some H16's. May not be South Florida but they are out there. Ebay showed one H18 less then 100 miles from Bloomington also.

Finding a Taipan in your area might be harder, but there are boats around.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

I hate to give away any searching for cats edge but
craiglook.com is much better than using Craigslist's native search.

I'm really looking at cats under 375lbs (170kg) and over 16'.

Yes, I would like a Tornado thank you very much.

My short list (caviar dreams and such):

CLASS D-PN Weight

Taipan 5.7 60.7 270

Nacra 18 64.6 330

Hobie Tiger 62.1 340

Tornado 63.9 340

Hobie FXOne 68.5 340

Nacra 5.5 69.7 340

Trac 18 67.5 349

Nacra 5.2 72.1 350

Nacra 570 70.5 360

Nacra 5.7 72.6 360

Prindle 18-2 69.1 365

Prindle 19 66.4 375

18m2 67.2 375

SuperCat 19 69 375





edited by: lonbordin, Jun 14, 2010 - 02:33 PM

And what is your price range? Looks like that is a very broad list of boats (and prices). For example a Tornado or Tiger vs. a Nacra 5.2.

BTW I think a H16 is really closer to 16.5 feet long.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

smfinley

And what is your price range? Looks like that is a very broad list of boats (and prices). For example a Tornado or Tiger vs. a Nacra 5.2.

BTW I think a H16 is really closer to 16.5 feet long.

Yeah, some of the boats are not in my range therefore the caviar dreams statement.

Good eye the 5.2 is the "smallest" boat of the group...

The H16 may be 16' 7" in length but it is remiss in volume. I'm hoping to do better!

Hobie tiger is F18. Min weight 398.

Don't forget the Nacra F20 Carbon. It is listed at less then 375lbs and is over 16 feet. It might be worth a fractional ownership....



edited by: smfinley, Jun 14, 2010 - 04:42 PM

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

from that list

imho

nacra 5.5sl, if you can find one

nacra 5.2 if you are on a budget

Dude,

You are all over the place with this and yes, you have over thought it. You want something cheap but you haven't given us your budget, you want a boat under 375#, fast, light air performer, crew weights of 515# but sail it solo, you weigh 245#, solo right it, simple, not complex, ying, yang, beach it on 20 mm rip rap, blah, blah, blah. It don't exist. You've gotten some great advice but you continue to add conditions, criteria.

Here is a valuable source for ya.
http://www.searchtempest.com/
It will aggregate craigslist and ebay.
Put in the parameters you like, i.e. price, distance, etc. and BOOM! Bob's your Uncle!

Lonbordin,
Face it, you a big boy, get a big boy boat. 5.8, 6.0, P19, N20, H20, SC, or Tornado. I would also recommend a H18, which is a tank (I can't believe i just did that, . . . nope, I change my mind, don't get the H18, Nacra's rule, and I need a rummie). What ever your budget is, allow $1000 to have it shipped to ya, or go get it. If any of these boats are too complex for ya buy a roto-molded Wave and be done with it.

The absolute best source to find a beachcat is right here in the classifieds, after that its catsailor. And yes you can solo right most of these boats in wind, which is usually the cause of the capsize. Of all the boats listed I find the N20 is the easiest to right solo.

3 questions: You said earlier you grew up sailing multis. . . Which ones? Have you tried to find a local or near local fleet that might be a resource for a boat, other than the H20 at your sailing association? What is your name? . . . Oh, and by the way, welcome to thebeachcats.com! :)


--
Philip
--

I am just guessing but i think smfinley would be willing to be a part owner of this boat too :)

smfinley

Don't forget the Nacra F20 Carbon. It is listed at less then 375lbs and is over 16 feet. It might be worth a fractional ownership....edited by: smfinley, Jun 14, 2010 - 04:42 PM

I am just guessing but i think smfinley would be willing to be a part owner of this boat too :)

smfinley

Don't forget the Nacra F20 Carbon. It is listed at less then 375lbs and is over 16 feet. It might be worth a fractional ownership....edited by: smfinley, Jun 14, 2010 - 04:42 PM

Heck I would be 1/3 owner of an N F20 Carbon!

Philip, I mostly agree. Not the way I would have put it, but I agree with the thought. You can really overthink these things. I also understand it, I went through the same thing buying my boat (not many boats available locally besides H16s and 14s and very few multis still on the water).

To be honest I'm 220 lbs and my wife is about the same and we are VERY happy with the performance of the Nacra 5.2. The only problem is that the tramp is a little crowded, but the performance is great and it is an awesome singlehanded boat. So don't discount the 17 footer even though its a little small, if you can get one it will work well for you (and Yes Nacras do rule).

The Taipan ain't happening without importing it for some serious cash, there just aren't any around. Kind of like the N5.7 I wanted but couldn't find within 8 hours drive of me so I got the N5.2.

One mistake I did make when I was looking was not being hooked in here and on Catsailor. What I didn't know then is that you can likely find a reputable person on here who is willing to help you ship the cat. There are a couple of services people use for that, where someone is driving your way and are willing to trailor the cat for a reasonable price. Something to look into, maybe pbegle can help set you up with a Tornado (sounds like he has a few)!!

Doesn't hurt to contact some of the people and find out if you can swing something.

D.

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

Quote

I am just guessing but i think smfinley would be willing to be a part owner of this boat too :)

That was a fairly safe guess Andrew. I know a great place to store it in the summer. Maybe it could spend the winters in Florida if you want to go in on it also.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

i got $100, i am in
we can keep it in my yard, i will even pay for the beach parking permit

lonbordin

One of the biggest issues is that I seem to be 1,500 miles (2414 km) from all the cats. sigh...

I didn't really think about it until I read this post, so it got me thinking . . . .
Whatta ya know, my last 3 boats came from:
New England (1300 miles)
Key West (1000 miles)
St. Louis (800 miles)

--
Philip
--

Where the heck do you sail in St. Louis!?

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

I was referring to where the boats came from, as in where they were purchased. Plenty of good fleet there, though.

--
Philip
--

Lon,

Since you aren't going to find a boat that fits all of your criteria, when you determine which of your criteria you can live without, let us know what boat you end up with.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

Today I cleaned up from the tornadic activity that passed through here last night. A big tree from my neighbors fell taking out a big tree in my yard and taking out my fence on two sides. Some of my cat budget had to be spent to fix things today, bummer.

I'm completely aware that there isn't a perfect beach cat. But I reject the idea that researching and discussing the options is a mistake. Ignorance is not my friend nor should it be yours.

I think my list I posted fits my wants and those are the boats I'll be looking for...

I think Craiglook has all the features you trumpet for searchtempest.

Scott (smfinley) I'll continue to post my thoughts as I search for a cat... if you don't like it you don't have to read it.

I've sailed Hobie, Prindle, Venture, Stilettos.
There are no "local" fleets....

Crap another tornado warning... gotta go

--
LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
Trac 18
Bloomington, IN
--

Quote

I think my list I posted fits my wants and those are the boats I'll be looking for...

Until you narrow your criteria no advise will be good advise since the boat you want doesn't exist, especially not "cheap".

I am just pointing out that you are asking for recommendations on what cat is best but are looking all over the spectrum. Also some of your data might be wrong (Tiger weight etc.) which could impact your decision.





--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

I think his short list looks pretty good, except for the Trac 18. The Tiger, F18 and the Taipan are likely going to be tough to find for under $10,000 but they are all boats I wouldn't mind owning and meet most of the criteria if not all of it.

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

I messed up on the Tiger weight it is 397, sorry. I'm pretty sure that is the only error.

I did leave some of the cats in there that are probably to expensive... especially after yesterday. When it comes to buying you never know. I did cull some of the super expensive boats from the list.

If you read the thread from the beginning I think you will find it has been full of good advice and discussion. That is what this forum is for, right?!

I'm not sorry it hasn't been up to your standards Scott.

Dodged many bullets tonight tornadoes spotted to the north, south, east and west. Bloomington was sparred.

You need a Tornado in your back yard. Pete

pbegle

You need a Tornado in your back yard. Pete

If you're talking about the International Tornado class cat, I completely agree... it is at the top of my list.

If you're talking about any other Tornado, GTFO!

Well it would be kind of ironic, sailing a Tornado after the Tornado. I think it would be a great boat for ya!

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

OK Lon, here's your boat

http://www.thebeachcats.c…roduct.php?product=10547

No excuses, this boat is close to you.

Seriously, this is what I've got and I've sailed anywhere from solo at 230-300 and with crew 500+ lbs., I've taken my 70+ year old parents out through the surf and sailed in all type conditions and waters since 1992 on the Hobie 18 with wings.

Then there is this...
"Chicks dig the wings"

With Hobie 18's (and most boats) the year of manufacture is important.

1978-1983 heavy but bullet proof
1984-1986 light but failure prone
1987-1988 has the upgraded rudder system (plastic cams)
1989+ best Hobie 18's available

Unfortunately after 1990 there were not very many 18's sold, so availability isn't good.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

Thanks Damon!

After my fence episode it will be a few pay periods before I can afford a boat. I have to admit I'm looking towards a lighter cat than the H18. But it is a good fit, thanks again.

PS- How does one know chickens like the H18 wings? Do they cluck more?



--
LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
Trac 18
Bloomington, IN
--

lonbordin

PS- How does one know chickens like the H18 wings? Do they cluck more?

Oh yes, wings increase clucking by 43% during the day and 90% at night.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

there is no or none that i know 18+ cats under 400lbs (except a-cats)
if you want a strong boat that can carry big loads.. your gonna have a heavy boat.




edited by: andrewscott, Jun 19, 2010 - 09:10 AM

andrewscott

there is no or none that i know 18+ cats under 400lbs (except a-cats)
if you want a strong boat that can carry big loads.. your gonna have a heavy boat.
edited by: andrewscott, Jun 19, 2010 - 09:10 AM

As posted before, in this very thread, a short list of boats that weigh less than 400 lbs.

Note: Yes the A-cats and other boats that typically go for 10k+ are not in this list. Yes there are other cats that fit as well but are more exotic and not likely to be seen (Dart18, etc.) by me living in Indiana.

CLASS D-PN Weight
Taipan 5.7 60.7 270
Nacra 18 64.6 330
Tornado 63.9 340
Hobie FXOne 68.5 340
Nacra 5.5 69.7 340
Trac 18 67.5 349
Nacra 570 70.5 360
Nacra 5.7 72.6 360
Prindle 18-2 69.1 365
Prindle 19 66.4 375
18m2 67.2 375
SuperCat 19 69 375

--
LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
Trac 18
Bloomington, IN
--

Just a quick update on the hunt.
I bid on that Supercat 20 and didn't get it, thank goodness...drinking and biding is a bad idea. There was a Prindle 19 that I called on and was just sold 30 minutes prior. I had a line on a Tornado in the Chicago area the gentlemen wouldn't hold it until the weekend, wouldn't take paypal and someone scooped that up Friday as I was set to head up Friday afternoon. He was nice enough to call to let me know before I left, whew.

I'm most bummed about the Tornado... it was vintage but sweet and the price was right! Ah well.

Still watching and sailing the Bucc.


--
LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
Trac 18
Bloomington, IN
--

lonbordin

Still watching and sailing the Bucc.

Keep at it, eventually you will find the right boat and be glad you passed or missed on all the rest.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

Well I bought a cat. I'll let you guess which one of my list it is.





One hint, it has dagger-boards.

Its been a long day and then I scrubbed two years of setting in the woods off the boat, whew. So I'll check back later with more hints if necessary. But I know that won't be necessary with this group.


--
LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
Trac 18
Bloomington, IN
--

Really no guesses... no one wants to play... sniff, sniff

Hint # 2: Sailboat data says only 100 built (I don't believe it, though).

--
LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
Trac 18
Bloomington, IN
--

Trac 18, looks like its in great shape

Biggie

Trac 18, looks like its in great shape

YES!



edited by: lonbordin, Jul 11, 2010 - 10:42 PM

--
LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
Trac 18
Bloomington, IN
--

100 built may be correct, I've never seen one so they must be really rare.

Just like the other manufacturers, they probably made a lot more 16's, but still a tiny number compared to Hobie's and Prindles.

Congrats on finding your boat, good luck and please document and photograph the boat when you get it fully rigged. We can make an album in the Beachcats Identification album with rigging details that will help the next Trac 18 Owner.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

I will be taking photos and documenting the process of bringing this one back from the edge.

Fellow Beachcat member Holmeswake's Trac 18 is a lot prettier than mine but hey it was only three hundred bucks so it's not so bad.

It fit my requirements:
Cheap, Lighter than average 349lbs, Pretty quick 67.5 Portsmouth and plenty of hull volume to deal with the big people. Bonus was it's boomless design and all Harken tackle.

The short list to be completed before the first sail:
-Restitch the trampoline seams
-New lines for the entire boat
-Jib is torn and may not be repairable
-Main sheet needs to visit Sailcare for a cleaning
-Get a set of Cat Tracks
-and a little glass work.

I wish The Trac Cat Website was still online, sigh.
This Trac Cat 16 pdf is a great resource though.

I'll be happy to contribute photo's Damon. Let me know where to put them.

THANK YOU to all that posted I appreciate it!


PS- Been a little busy today but still made some progress.




edited by: lonbordin, Jul 11, 2010 - 10:46 PM

--
LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
Trac 18
Bloomington, IN
--

lonbordin

-Restitch the trampoline seams Any recommendations here?

Check in your area for a tent and awning maker, they have the heavy duty machines needed for that, they wouldn't need to know anything about tramps other than you need them to use UV-stable thread.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

lonbordin

I'll be happy to contribute photo's Damon. Let me know where to put them.

I've created a new top album in Beachcats Identification called "Trac 18 - AMF Alcort" and placed an album title "Trac 18 - lonbordin" inside, you are the owner of the lonbordin album so once you are in their just click on "Add Items" in the left menu to upload pics.
http://www.thebeachcats.c…pictures&g2_itemId=74651

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

damonAdmin

lonbordin

-Restitch the trampoline seams Any recommendations here?

Check in your area for a tent and awning maker, they have the heavy duty machines needed for that, they wouldn't need to know anything about tramps other than you need them to use UV-stable thread.

I edited out the recommendations part (too slow it seems) because I found a local place with experience willing to do it. (I almost passed out! What luck!)

I'll upload my pics to that album from now on out, thanks.


--
LIVE LIFE... Dave Wilcox
Trac 18
Bloomington, IN
--

Glad to hear you found yourself a cat. Hopefully you will be on the water soon with it.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--