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Referbing Older Hobie 18- Righting line.  Bottom

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  • MN3
    I have found that light air sailing is very challenging and very rewarding now that i can sail (pretty) well in light air


    Please share one or two key tips

    For me, when there are still waves but little wind, it's more about stabilizing the mast and traveler to have some peace.. That's one of the few cases where I use the mast rotator and now I have a traveler set up that allows me to fix it at a given position. Other than that, I care more about how to make a decent pillow and find some shadow under the sails..
  • MN3+1
    Quote did not mean to suggest tying the righting line to the dolphin striker and handling it directly from there underneath the boat.


    i personally wrap my righting line knot around the mast base.. i would rather replace that 1 part (if it ever failed from righting) than all the parts in my DS system


    My tramp has a groomet at the center of the front beam, almost touching it. So I wrap the line around the main beam, the DS acts as a stopper (and not the groomet). So the line may also be a towing line, if passed through the connection of both bridles and stay (in my case a hole at the center of the bow foil). Instead of storing the line in the tramp pocket, it goes around the bow foil and back to the mast base, tied with a quick knot.
  • This way I also avoid messing with the halyards inside the tramp pocket when I take the righting line
  • AndinistaPlease share one or two key tips

    sure
    1. if you have very light air .... don't tack, stay on that line until you absolutely HAVE to change tacks
    2. keep weight near the mast (move capt & crew) - have your crew on the low side if possible (and sit still)
    3. in air less than 4 knots - on my boat i use LOTS of downhaul and sheet the main very tight
  • I do exactly the opposite in 3.. what would be the logic? You also use the traveler centered?
  • AndinistaI do exactly the opposite in 3.. what would be the logic? You also use the traveler centered?

    it works

    has something to do with the way the air flows off the sail in light air - i can't find the reference
  • MN3
    3. in air less than 4 knots - on my boat i use LOTS of downhaul and sheet the main very tight


    No disrespect, but that isn't going to work on a H18. I've been racing them for A LOT of years and no way I would crank down super hard on mainsheet and downhaul in very light wind. You want to be very "tender" with the mainsheet tension in light air. You are walking a very fine line between sheeting in far enough to get the most power out of the available breeze and over-sheeting and killing everything. If you hook the upper section of the sail, you will kill all your power. There is no set and forget mode in the light stuff - you have to make constant micro-adjustments.

    The best light wind tuning accessory on a Hobie 18, IMO, is two pairs of telltails placed about 1/3 of the way back in the second and third panels down from the top. Trim your sheet to keep those telltails flowing, and if you lose flow on the leeward side, ease the sheet an inch or two. It all comes down to very fine tuning. In very light wind, you may even want to turn off the ratchet on your main block for a better feel. There's a saying - when in doubt, let it out. You never want to lose flow on the leeward side of the sail, and over sheeting will do just that.

    sm
  • I agree that sailing fast in slack wind takes as much skill as handling a boat in strong wind. But going slower in a sailboat than what you can paddle is really the pits! That's why Windfinder.com is bookmarked and used to schedule sailboat outings. icon_biggrin

    --
    Goodsailing

    Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
    H18 (Sold 7/15)
    Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
    Balt-Wash Area
    --
  • QuoteNo disrespect, but that isn't going to work on a H18


    I sail mystere's - I have a 5.5 and a 6.0

    and i meant main outhaul, not mainsheet

    I asked on the "other forum" - got this:
    check the bottom two paragraphs of page 1 here.
    http://www.interlakesaili…org/myfiles/lightair.pdf

    Key points seem to be not have too much camber/draft allowing premature separation and don't let the leach hook



    From link:

    While one might think that a very full sail would be necessary to give the boat the power it needs, in most cases a flatter sail will perform better. The simple theory is that a full, baggy sail requires more "wind bending"; that is, the wind has to curve around the sail more, which gives the airflow more of a chance to break up and become turbulent. A flatter shape allows the airflow to remain attached - so leave the outhaul fairly tight to help keep the lower section of the main flatter and the leech more open.

    Another way to do this is to ease the Cunningham, allowing the draft to move aft slightly. In most conditions the main is trimmed so the upper batten is parallel to the boom when sighted from underneath. In light winds this is virtually impossible, due to the weight of the boom hanging on the leech of the main. It is not unusual for the main leech to hook badly, sometimes as much as 10 to 20 degrees to weather of the foot. Although this looks bad, it is frequently beneficial to have the mainsail shape a bit rounder in the after sections. This will induce slight weather helm, and help get optimum
    pointing capability.



    Edited by MN3 on Feb 12, 2015 - 03:05 PM.
  • QuoteBut going slower in a sailboat than what you can paddle is really the pits!

    paddling is the worst, and just slightly better than sitting still or being pushed by the tide and baking in the fl sun in the summer.

    that doesn't mean i will rig with the intent of sailing in 3 knots of wind (unless i expect that to change later in the day), but as i originally stated, i am starting to enjoy light air sailing a lot more now that i can do it somewhat well

    having a big spinnaker makes it a lot more fun too
  • I understand suffering until the wind picks up. I was out in the bay. It was windy. The wind suddenly quit. I felt stranded--for 3 hours. Then low and behold black clouds came with wind and I was able to get back to the ramp.
    Although this is technical thread, I'm not sure I understand why, but when it's windy there's hardly any sailboats out! Even on the dive boat in FL over Christmas, 4ft swells, 20 knot wind and not a sailboat in sight around Hillsboro Inlet. Why have a sailboat if your not going out when its windy?

    --
    Goodsailing

    Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
    H18 (Sold 7/15)
    Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
    Balt-Wash Area
    --
  • QuoteWhy have a sailboat if your not going out when its windy?

    everyone has a different "perfect condition"

    I don't care for sailing my cat in any swells at all, and above 20 isn't really fun for me. It's wet, and wild, slip-and-capsize.

    I admit, it's a rush and good workout and I always feel "i survived" after sailing in 20, or 30 knot winds, but i don't care for it nor need it.


    I am spoiled (sail a lot) and prefer 10 - 15 where everything isn't "do or die",

    I did JUST buy a new cat with a 31' mast that has a reefing system (and matching sail)

    ....that might change everything... :)



    Edited by MN3 on Feb 12, 2015 - 04:59 PM.
  • QuoteI did JUST buy a new cat with a 31' mast that has a reefing system (and matching sail)

    ....that might change everything... :)

    If it's the 10' beam Mystere, they are some sweet boats, especially when the water gets rough. I found that boat to be a be-itch to right. Even with the large bag, I needed help. The wide beam means you can't use the traveler cleat casting as a foot brace, it's easy to go sliding down the tramp if the hull comes way up.
    The hardest thing after sailing it was to jump back on a 17' boat, it seemed like you were stuck in a closet, the real estate, or lack of it, on the tramp is very noticeable.

    --
    Hobie 18 Magnum
    Dart 15
    Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
    Nacra 5.7
    Nacra 5.0
    Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
    Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
    --
  • Quoteeveryone has a different "perfect condition

    There's a lot of sailboats in South Florida, not just cats, but, Hunters, Pearsons, Cals etc, that during the Holiday one would think there would have been at least 1 sailboat in the ocean when the wind was 15-20. I believe the sport is limited to racing mostly as even around here, there are not many sailboats in the water, other than specific classes during races. For those who don't race, my question remains, not to be answered per se, but why have a sailboat if you don't use it when the winds are favorable to enjoy sailing? (Excluding the use of a sailboat as a liveaboard, that hardly moves) I agree that 10-18 is probably ideal for most small craft. The Laser actually slows down beyond 20 as it becomes over powered. 15 is ideal.
    What, burning incense as a way to chart wind direction?--- you've got to be kidding... icon_lol

    --
    Goodsailing

    Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
    H18 (Sold 7/15)
    Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
    Balt-Wash Area
    --
  • Here in Chile I haven't seen that sailors prefer to sail in winds below 15-20, they'll be sailing under these conditions. What I've seen, though, is that 20 years ago dinghy and cat sailing was maybe 90% recreational and 10% racing and today it's the opposite. Sailing was more popular and there were more sails in the water on non-regatta days or on lakes or beaches where regattas are not common. There were more junky boats with dirty sails, too. Today you see lots of F18 and shiny lasers in the few specialized lakes or beaches and that's it.

    Bottom line:
    Sailing has become increasingly elitist. Today you can choose basically between three options:
    - Tech racing boats, very expensive, not recreational (made for the pro and rich)
    - Recreational and expensive boats like the getaway (made for the non pro and rich)
    - Middle class decent enough boats rescued from the 80s or 90s, for the true recreational sailors that still survive...
  • QuoteIf it's the 10' beam Mystere,

    No, it's a xl 8'6"
  • Better start eating triple cheeseburger, with double fries & 8 beers...everyday!
    Or find a beefy crew, or two, or a bunch of fun girls. icon_lol
    I know you have beaucoup experience, & went into this with eyes open, but I found it to be a sneaky beast.
    It's not a fault of the boat, it was never envisioned to be solo sailed. In a good breeze, with all senses on high alert, it's hard to beat. I never tipped it on a windy day.
    It was those lazy days, when I was just drifting along, & perhaps crossed the tramp to change something. A
    sudden puff, of only a few extra mph & you & you were swimming.
    My 10' beam, with wings is 13.5' wide.
    The photo is trapped off the wing, in only 7mph, & I can just barely hold it down. I realize I'm not piked out efficiently, but my feet are nearly 7' from the centre. I think the 8' beam will require even more finesse.
    It helmed beautifully, two fingers on the stik, the rudders are far nicer than my 5.7.
    Enjoy, & post some photos of that beast double trapped, with GPS speed.
    Damon kindly posted the official manual for the boat, somewhere here, it was sent to me by Kasper, I can email it to you if you want, though there is probably nothing you don't already know..
    http://www.thebeachcats.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=112332&g2_serialNumber=4



    Edited by Edchris177 on Feb 14, 2015 - 06:33 PM.

    --
    Hobie 18 Magnum
    Dart 15
    Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
    Nacra 5.7
    Nacra 5.0
    Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
    Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
    --
  • http://asnstudios.com/images/new.jpg



    Edited by MN3 on Feb 16, 2015 - 07:50 AM.
  • Not sure how the Mystere's hull is constructed, but if it's anything like most other symmetrical hulled boats, I would lose those single trailer rollers in a heart beat - especially the front ones. You sure don't want to punch one up through the bottom of the boat.

    sm
  • QuoteI would lose those single trailer rollers in a heart beat - especially the front ones.

    +1
    All it takes is someone to hop up on the hull while trailed, to retrieve a hat, Frisbee etc. Makes cradles out of a piece of 12" green sewer pipe, it cuts easy with a re-cip saw. Even lifting the hull & slipping a 12" piece of plywood between hull & roller will give piece of mind.
    Having gone over to the dark side you are now spoiled for life, "WINGS".
    Backrest for lazy days, never eating spray in the face, hammock for chicks & kids. The girls who want to go on YOUR boat just tripled!
    I secure a paddle under each wing tramp, out of the way & out of the sun.
    Those look like the factory wings, an expensive option, just respect the weight limit on them. I've read posts re dragging them while flying a hull. The geometry on mine were such that if you ever dragged a wing, you were already swimming.
    The only downside I find is they sometimes hang up a sheet when gybing the spin, & if you flip, the extra 15lb on the upper hull is also over-centred, making righting more difficult. The tapered mast does not give much flotation at the top. With the added turtling moment of the wings, you may decide a small mast float is a good idea.
    On the other hand, the wing in the water creates a lot of drag, helping to right, & also pretty much stopping drift once the mast is into the wind.
    I would remove all beam bolts & Teff-Gel them in your climate. The only thing I had break was those delrin fittings that connect the tie bar to the tillers. My boat was 2001, not sure if they're the same as your 5.5. Yves in Montreal has them, or if you can make them from an old seized spreader arm from a Nacra, it's the perfect diametre. I took photos while making them, but haven't put up an album yet. They are not quite a simple as two holes drilled in a piece of plastic.
    Make an album, & show that beast off.



    Edited by Edchris177 on Feb 16, 2015 - 02:17 PM.

    --
    Hobie 18 Magnum
    Dart 15
    Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
    Nacra 5.7
    Nacra 5.0
    Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
    Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
    --

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