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Prindle 19 Spinnaker  Bottom

  • After repairing the hull damage and adding subdecks (and weight) to my Prindle 19, I recently acquired another one. (Because you just can't have too many boats). It was "diamond in the rough" 1993 that had been sitting in a storage yard in the sun for 10 years. Chalky hulls where brought back to life with wet sanding, rubbing, and polishing. Now it looks like new and the hulls are in remarkably good shape. I'll post some photos soon.

    My question is on the spinnaker rig which I am a complete noob on rigging. It's a homemade job using a carbon windsurfer mast. Docs with the boat include a receipt for a used Prindle 18 spinnaker, so I assume that's what the sail is from.

    Two items of concern with the rigging:

    1. The rigging for the pole consists of amsteel lines run to shackles at the bow tangs, and also amsteel lines run to the tips of the bows. The lines run through the hulls to stopper knots on washers on the outboard sides. I believe the bow tips are solid glass at this point.

    http://catsail.com/p19/pj/p19-1.jpeg

    http://catsail.com/p19/pj/p19-2.jpeg

    I was concerned about the loads but came across photos online where other sailors have rigged P19 spin poles to the bow tips. I will probably shroud anchor pins at these locations as I have seen in some of the other sailor's photos:

    https://www.murrays.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/50-20100000.jpg

    Looking for opinions on the loads at this point, and whether I could blow out the bow tips.

    2. The rigging for the head of the sail is concerning. The owner replaced the pin for the halyard pulley with a shackle, then rigged a line bridle to the shackle. (Given all the sealant on the old mast, I will be moving my other mast to this boat as I know it is sealed).

    http://catsail.com/p19/pj/p19-3.jpeg

    I'm concerned about the loads with the sail rigged to the head of the mast. Most rigs I see have the spin head rigged a few feet below the mast head. Any comments on this? I would like to rig the the boat tomorrow to store at the yard at the harbor, and would like to get this set up tonight. I figure with this rig I don't need to add a tang, but wanted to get some other opinions on it. Again, I am new with spinnakers so will only be using this in light air for now.



    Edited by mattson on Mar 15, 2019 - 01:28 PM.

    --
    Bill Mattson
    Prindle 19 "Gelli Bean"
    Prindle 19 "Cat's Pajamas"
    --
  • mattson

    Two items of concern with the rigging:

    1. The rigging for the pole consists of amsteel lines run to shackles at the bow tangs, and also amsteel lines run to the tips of the bows. The lines run through the hulls to stopper knots on washers on the outboard sides. I believe the bow tips are solid glass at this point.

    http://catsail.com/p19/pj/p19-1.jpeg

    I was concerned about the loads but came across photos online where other sailors have rigged P19 spin poles to the bow tips. I will probably shroud anchor pins at these locations as I have seen in some of the other sailor's photos:

    https://www.murrays.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/50-20100000.jpg

    Looking for opinions on the loads at this point, and whether I could blow out the bow tips.

    Yes you could blow out the tips, i have seen it happen to a g-cat with a screecher rigged
    but it's a pretty low risk. if it's a big concern you could always add some epoxy/cloth up there to add strength
    even if it did break off... it wouldn't be catastrophic and easily repaired (if you still have the tip)
    I wouldn't put shroud pins up there - no need at all - line through a stopper knot and washer is fine (and what i have on both my cats)



    Quote2. The rigging for the head of the sail is concerning. The owner replaced the pin for the halyard pulley with a shackle, then rigged a line bridle to the shackle. (Given all the sealant on the old mast, I will be moving my other mast to this boat as I know it is sealed).

    http://catsail.com/p19/pj/p19-3.jpeg

    I'm concerned about the loads with the sail rigged to the head of the mast. Most rigs I see have the spin head rigged a few feet below the mast head. Any comments on this?


    No no no no no
    You do not put a spin halyard to the head of the mast where there is no support - it needs to go much closer to the top of the spreaders (at least on every boat i have owned/ seen with a spin up)

    from catsailor threads -
    The usual advice is 1/3 of the way above where the shrouds attach...
    This is not true. This was the advice that the designer of the Supercat line, Bill Roberts, gave to everyone. However nearly as goood as all other designers (and therefor designs) have the spi gate at 60% of the distance between hound fitting and mast top.
    https://www.catsailor.com…halyard-where#Post116082
  • MN3... However nearly as goood as all other designers (and therefor designs) have the spi gate at 60% of the distance between hound fitting and mast top.


    Thanks for the advice with this. A couple of questions:

    60% meaning closer to the hounds or closer to the mast head?

    Also, in your link to the post a tang is mentioned. Wouldn't there be a requirement for a bail of sorts, like the line bail in my photo? Otherwise, I would think the mast would counter rotate as the spin loaded up.

    --
    Bill Mattson
    Prindle 19 "Gelli Bean"
    Prindle 19 "Cat's Pajamas"
    --
  • MN3-
    The usual advice is 1/3 of the way above where the shrouds attach...
    This is not true. This was the advice that the designer of the Supercat line, Bill Roberts, gave to everyone. However nearly as goood as all other designers (and therefor designs) have the spi gate at 60% of the distance between hound fitting and mast top.


    So in reading other posts, I've determined the 60% is closer to the masthead than the shrouds. And I also found this old post of yours:

    https://www.thebeachcats.…c/13199/start/0#pid34302

    How did you attached the line bail? I spoke with Steve Murray a bit ago and he mentioned drilling holes for the line in the mast track. I figure this must be as far back in the track as I can go to not interfer with the bolt rope.

    --
    Bill Mattson
    Prindle 19 "Gelli Bean"
    Prindle 19 "Cat's Pajamas"
    --
  • I drilled 2 holes in the sidewalls of the track of my 5.5
    in a spot that will not interfere with the bolt rope

    2 small holes so i can thread the dyneema bail into the track and back out the track on each side. small stopper knot to secure it

    my 6.0 was set up with only 1 small hole drilled in each side. this method leaves the single knot outside the mast and the knot will slide around with the block.

    both methods work and has really not (Knot) been a problem
  • MN3I drilled 2 holes in the sidewalls of the track of my 5.5
    in a spot that will not interfere with the bolt rope

    2 small holes so i can thread the dyneema bail into the track and back out the track on each side. small stopper knot to secure it

    my 6.0 was set up with only 1 small hole drilled in each side. this method leaves the single knot outside the mast and the knot will slide around with the block.

    both methods work and has really not (Knot) been a problem


    This helps a lot. I'll see how far I get with this tomorrow. I figure if the P18 spin was originally rigged to the mast head, the pole was either rigged high or is too short. At a slight upward angle, the pole extends about 4 ft past the bows, which seems plenty long.

    Looking forward to a whole new way of hurting myself.

    --
    Bill Mattson
    Prindle 19 "Gelli Bean"
    Prindle 19 "Cat's Pajamas"
    --
  • MN3I drilled 2 holes in the sidewalls of the track of my 5.5
    in a spot that will not interfere with the bolt rope

    2 small holes so i can thread the dyneema bail into the track and back out the track on each side. small stopper knot to secure it

    my 6.0 was set up with only 1 small hole drilled in each side. this method leaves the single knot outside the mast and the knot will slide around with the block.

    both methods work and has really not (Knot) been a problem


    Sorry to bug....

    Is the spinnaker head only supported by the bail? Or is there a leader line run above it. I ask after seeing this post at catsailor:

    https://www.catsailor.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/32094/spinnaker-halyard-attachment

    https://a4.pbase.com/u42/d30/upload/27640937.IMG_6627.jpg

    I will have a block on the bail to prevent the chafe shown in the photo. This rig looks like there is a heavier line run up the mast to take some load. Not sure I would need this if the bail is amsteel.

    --
    Bill Mattson
    Prindle 19 "Gelli Bean"
    Prindle 19 "Cat's Pajamas"
    --
  • QuoteSorry to bug....

    Is the spinnaker head only supported by the bail? Or is there a leader line run above it. I ask after seeing this post at catsailor:

    not bugging me at all - fire away

    I have both setups
    on the 5.5 i had a spin tang. I thought it was way too high so i drilled the holes, added the dyneema (dingy control line with a jacket to reduce chafe) and ran a "line run up the mast" to the tang as shown above

    on the 6.0 he previous owner) simply drilled the holes and ran a line. the halyard block top simply rides the bail sans a "line run up the mast" - both seem fine - the 6.0 does suffer worse chafe

    at about $.50 worth of 2mm (maybe 3mm) dyneema per mast ... having to change this out every few seasons isn't a big deal (but keep an eye on it for sure . - it's gonna chafe when your spin is full and you are gybing a bunch)
  • MN3
    QuoteSorry to bug....

    Is the spinnaker head only supported by the bail? Or is there a leader line run above it. I ask after seeing this post at catsailor:

    not bugging me at all - fire away

    I have both setups
    on the 5.5 i had a spin tang. I thought it was way too high so i drilled the holes, added the dyneema (dingy control line with a jacket to reduce chafe) and ran a "line run up the mast" to the tang as shown above

    on the 6.0 he previous owner) simply drilled the holes and ran a line. the halyard block top simply rides the bail sans a "line run up the mast" - both seem fine - the 6.0 does suffer worse chafe

    at about $.50 worth of 2mm (maybe 3mm) dyneema per mast ... having to change this out every few seasons isn't a big deal (but keep an eye on it for sure . - it's gonna chafe when your spin is full and you are gybing a bunch)


    Sounds good. I'll just go with the bail line. Note that I plan to run the double block shown in my photo of the mast head. I figure this should reduce or pretty much eliminate any chafe.

    --
    Bill Mattson
    Prindle 19 "Gelli Bean"
    Prindle 19 "Cat's Pajamas"
    --

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  • March 23, 2019
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