Sailing downwind on Nacra 5.0 :: Catamaran Sailboats at TheBeachcats.com

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Sailing downwind on Nacra 5.0

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nacra55

Rank: Mate

Registered: Nov 02, 2004

Last visit: Aug 07, 2023

Posts: 626
Posted: Jul 26, 2013 - 12:52 AM

windadictIf they induce mast rotaion on boomless boat, what in this case limits or prevents over rotation?

Sheet tension. Boomless boats love sheet tension. Travel center sheet hard upwind.
Downwind travel to the hiking strap and sheet hard enough that the main is off the shroud.
Use some tape on the bridle wires and set the apparent wind to 90 degrees and get the jib and main working together, then never stall the leeward tail on the jib.

Forget the rotator, you don't have one. The harder you sheet the less the mast rotates. Need even less rotation, bring your clew a hole forward, assuming you don't have a clew traveler on your main, but this also flattens the sail and gives you less power. Minimum crew weight on a 5.0/500 is 260lbs so at your crew weight, your sailing heavy and have less sail area than a H16. The 5.0 has always been known as a heavy air boat, when the wind is "blowin dogs off chains" the 5.0 shines.

As far as the boats you are racing against, who has the most time racing? The new guy rarely wins.

Did I mention sheet tension? Boomless boats love sheet tension.

--
Ron
Nacra F18
Reservoir Sailing Assn.
Brandon, Mississippi
--
P.M.

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jan 14, 2004

Last visit: Sep 06, 2023

Posts: 858
Posted: Jul 26, 2013 - 06:02 AM

windadict. . . then I think this is not right and need to be corrected.

You are over thinking this. Don't blame one ass whippin' by an H16 in light air at a local fun race on the rig. Do like Ron says, sheet in and spend some time on the water.

--
Philip
--
Edchris177

Rank: Chief

Registered: Nov 26, 2009

Last visit: Apr 10, 2024

Posts: 2524
Posted: Jul 26, 2013 - 05:30 PM

QuoteForget the rotator, you don't have one.

As Ron said don't worry about it, they were optional on the boomless rigs, standard I believe on the 5.5 & 18 Sq. I think there is a sentence in the manual about maybe getting one if you were racing.
Think about the other things he said, move the "S" hook forward in the clew for less rotation. In essence you are stretching the sail towards the stern. If the sail were tough enough, & you sheeted hard enough you could stretch it to a straight line. The less tension, the more the wind force wants to curve the sail. The sail is attached via the track, so the more it bends, the more the mast rotates.
I don't race, so I rarely see the difference 1mph makes over a 20 mile course, I only bother using my rotator on deep downwinds & really light flaky air, when the mast has a tendency to flop around & shake what little air you have out of the sail.
As said, the 5.0 is a ton of fun when the wind picks up. I regularly solo both boats over 21 GPS when the wind was blowing.
If I had a fleet around here to race with, I think I'd do it, & get whupped...at least in the beginning. You have to believe you are as smart as the other guys, & can learn what they know, but remember, they didn't learn how to win in one race, or one season.
It's hard to see the rotator in Philips photo, but I'm pretty sure it is the same one in my pile of parts photo. If you want to try it & prove to yourself what it will do, I will mail you the parts you need,(rotator arm & 2 fairlead/cleats), use them for the season & then decide. The only caveat is you have to drill a 5/16" hole through the mast to accomodate the through bolt. The mast base goes up far enough the hole goes through that as well. It's aluminum, easy drill, & easy to fill & seal if you decide you don't need it. Remember, if you turtle the boat, that hole is underwater. Send me a PM if you want to try it.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--
jackb

Rank: Mate

Registered: Dec 01, 2011

Last visit: Nov 02, 2016

Posts: 165
Posted: Jul 26, 2013 - 10:36 PM

One factor for downwind performance is total sail area:

H16 208.5 sq ft
N500 190.2 sq ft

This is 10% advantage H16 over N500.

I am not sure about N5.0, but I would exact the sail area to be close to N500.

--
Jack B
Hobie 17
BC, Canada
--
windadict

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 27, 2011

Last visit: Jun 15, 2015

Posts: 153
Posted: Jul 28, 2013 - 08:14 PM

Guys, point well taken. Forget the rotation limiter, forget the ass whooping. The boat is as good as it gets and is time to have fun on the water not with screwing things up. Thank you

--
Adam Bartos
Nacra 5.0
SolCat 18 (sold)
Lake Zurich, IL
--
windadict

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 27, 2011

Last visit: Jun 15, 2015

Posts: 153
Posted: Jul 28, 2013 - 08:16 PM

jackbOne factor for downwind performance is total sail area:

H16 208.5 sq ft
N500 190.2 sq ft

This is 10% advantage H16 over N500.

I am not sure about N5.0, but I would exact the sail area to be close to N500.

Nacra 5.0 sails area is 201 sq ft

--
Adam Bartos
Nacra 5.0
SolCat 18 (sold)
Lake Zurich, IL
--
rattlenhum

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 01, 2002

Last visit: Jan 18, 2024

Posts: 417
Posted: Jul 30, 2013 - 11:36 AM

According to the Hobie USA site, the total sail area for the H16 is 218 sq ft. A lot of that area is in the jib, which is the shiznit downwind. Further, min.crew weight for the N5.0 is 20 lb. less so being over probably affects the N5.0 more.

I was very surprised to see that the D-PN for the N5.0 is as low as it is.

--
Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16
Clinton, Mississippi
--
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: Apr 06, 2024

Posts: 7088
Posted: Jul 30, 2013 - 11:54 AM

i upgraded to a mystere 5.5 because i couldn't catch my friend's 16 year old on his h16. (i had a h18)

get them going wing to wing and ... bye bye
Edchris177

Rank: Chief

Registered: Nov 26, 2009

Last visit: Apr 10, 2024

Posts: 2524
Posted: Jul 30, 2013 - 05:48 PM

QuoteI was very surprised to see that the D-PN for the N5.0 is as low as it is.

Jerome, I don't think the PN tells the entire story,the N5.0 is no slouch. It is an older design, & the skeg hulls means it's no lightweight, but when the wind gets honking, & the seas build, those big hulls are your friends.
We commonly run with a newer H17, a boat with a slightly lower PN than either the H16 or the N5.0. He has new sails, & when sailed solo, he beats our N5.0, & I have to work to keep up with the older 5.7.
Once the water gets rough things change dramatically. It is easy to hit 21mph on the 5.7, you have to work harder to get the 5.0 over 20, but you do it whether an offshore wind,(smooth water), or onshore,(big swell and/or steep faces). The rough water seems to really hurt the H17.
We also commonly sail with a duo of English Gentlemen, running an H16 & Dart 18. They competitively raced across the pond for 40 years, but had never helmed a Nacra. I gave them our boats one day in 20+ winds & stiff seas. They were astounded at how hard you could drive them,double trapped, the third sitting on the hull, full on into the steep faces,without eating it, while maintaining speed. The Dart owner knew his boat could handle the seas, but said he could never go as fast as they whipped the 5.7 that day.

Edited by Edchris177 on Jul 30, 2013 - 05:54 PM.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--
rattlenhum

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 01, 2002

Last visit: Jan 18, 2024

Posts: 417
Posted: Jul 31, 2013 - 08:26 AM

Edchris177
Jerome, I don't think the PN tells the entire story,....

Portsmouth Numbers rarely do!

I wasn''t trying to express any judgement against the N5.0, just surprised that the PNs rate it so low (fast). There are always lots of factors invlolved, and my experience racing with N5.0s is limited.

I remember the first time I saw a N5.0....thought it was the coolest design in that length range. Surprisingly, it's rated faster than the H16 at lower wind speeds and slower at higher wind speeds. My experience racing against them has probably been all in a lighter breeze, and I don't remember having any trouble beating them. I would not doubt that they shine in the heavier stuff with those hulls and sail plan.

But back to the original topic, I suspect that the N5.0 jib is small relative to the H16, and that's a huge factor in downwind sailing.

--
Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16
Clinton, Mississippi
--
windadict

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 27, 2011

Last visit: Jun 15, 2015

Posts: 153
Posted: Jul 31, 2013 - 04:02 PM

[quote=rattlenhum]
Edchris177
But back to the original topic, I suspect that the N5.0 jib is small relative to the H16, and that's a huge factor in downwind sailing.

Add jib traveler, which allows for the better sail angle to their jib size and that will explain why the H16's are better downwind.

rattlenhumAccording to the Hobie USA site, the total sail area for the H16 is 218 sq ft. A lot of that area is in the jib, which is the shiznit downwind. Further, min.crew weight for the N5.0 is 20 lb. less so being over probably affects the N5.0 more.

I was very surprised to see that the D-PN for the N5.0 is as low as it is.

I think that is because of that downwind leg hurts them in overall performance. When you loose some distance there is hard to catch up when others are already on the faster leg of the race.

--
Adam Bartos
Nacra 5.0
SolCat 18 (sold)
Lake Zurich, IL
--
windadict

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 27, 2011

Last visit: Jun 15, 2015

Posts: 153
Posted: Jul 31, 2013 - 04:15 PM

nacra55The 5.0 has always been known as a heavy air boat, when the wind is "blowin dogs off chains" the 5.0 shines.

...

Did I mention sheet tension? Boomless boats love sheet tension.

Edchris177
Jerome, I don't think the PN tells the entire story,the N5.0 is no slouch. It is an older design, & the skeg hulls means it's no lightweight, but when the wind gets honking, & the seas build, those big hulls are your friends.

+1 on sheet tension, heavy seas and blowing dogs of the chains...

Last Sunday I sailed heavy, with my son (110lbs) and his friend (140lbs) in 16 - 22 knots wind, with 3-5 ft waves. That's total of 430lbs!!! With them on wires, we were smoking. Traveler in the middle, main sheet tension to the max and we had sweet revenge on those H16's

--
Adam Bartos
Nacra 5.0
SolCat 18 (sold)
Lake Zurich, IL
--
azcat

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Mar 21, 2006

Last visit: Oct 02, 2016

Posts: 88
Posted: Aug 03, 2013 - 08:20 PM

.a boom, mast rotator and/or a barberhauler on a NACRA5.0...are you kidding me?

If racing in winds under 5 mph, no, not kidding. If your there to race.
Where I sail, we get the same wind patterns every day with few exceptions. That means racing in low winds for a race or two each day. It's a real PITA to lay on my back on the tramp parallel to the main beam with my foot rotating the mast or temp. rigging a line line do so. Adding the boom gives me pos. and neg. rotation without cluttering up the tramp. If I just want to go out and fart around, I can leave the boom off. Still no extra lines left on the tramp.