Since there are a couple of new Nacra 5.0 owners here I thought this info could be useful. I got all of the mechanical problems worked out with the rudder system. Using a 5/16" bungee and tightening the heck out of it (hog ring with the correct pliers makes this easy) the rudders pop up really nice - to a 45 degree angle.
The $57 brackets cured the locking issue. The only thing left was an operational problem where the rudder lines would get wedged between the casting and the bracket when trying to lock them down. The radius on the edge of the rudder blade creates the opening and the harder you pull the more stuck the line would get. Maddening. There is a simple procedural cure. Before you shove off, lock the rudders down into about a horizontal position via the cleat on the pivmatic. This puts tension on the line and keeps it from slipping into the opening around the radius. Hope this helps someone avoid the frustration I had.
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Mark Hirte
Nacra 5.0 1983 - (1st cat)
Deerfield, Il
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Pivmatic solution
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Posted: Aug 10, 2015 - 06:03 PM
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Posted: Aug 10, 2015 - 06:40 PM
I have also had that happen after a crash that blew the pivmatic, or touching the bottom .
You get sorted out, & the damn rudder is jammed.
It's easy to fix, if the wind is light, you have to go to very stern so you can push the rudder down with a foot, simultaneously reaching under to free the line.
1/4" line prevents some of it. Most of the rest can be eliminated by wrapping electrical tape around the casting. That also removes any slop in the system. You can also tighten the bolt, BUT, you want to be careful there, in case you hear a "snap" sound, bummer.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
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Posted: Aug 10, 2015 - 09:40 PM
Interesting, I've never had that happen. Not sure I understand what is happening. Are you routing the pull down line OVER the pin in the casting (as is shown in the manual)? I have my pull downs rigged with a 2:1 purchase (note that it causes no problems with the pivmatic pop up) and maybe that helps the situation?
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Aug 10, 2015 - 10:53 PM
It's not a rigging problem. It happens only occasionally, when the rudder is "up", either from touching bottom, or I've popped one during a crash.
The slack in the pulldown line dangles below the rudder blade, & due to the boat drifting, it lies alongside one edge of the casting. If there is any gap,(worse if you use thin line), between blade & casting, the line can get pinched. The harder you yank the line, the more it pinches.
It's very easy to undo, unless you are solo in a blow. You have to get right on the transom to fix it. I've never had it happen on the 5.0, a couple of times on the 5.7.
Yesterday we did a glory lap down the swimline at Mara beach. I touched a rudder on a sandbar, popped the rudder, & pinched the line. After we cleared the swimmers & floaties I got my wife to hold an "almost-in-irons" heading while I unsnagged the line. I had to kneel behind the tiller X-tie bar to reach under the casting.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Aug 10, 2015 - 11:00 PM
Before putting my 5.0 on the water I debated about replacing the shock cord on the rudders. I had read about the rudders kicking up to a 45 degree angle with new shock cord which was appealing since I keep my boat on a lift in the water when not sailing but I also was leery of loosing steering when I come in since the water is very shallow and I have to unlock the rudders. I decided to leave the worn out shock cord and when the boat is on the lift run a shock cord from the rear crossbar back to the rudder to hold it up.
I am not real familiar with workings of the 5.0 but is it possible having the shock cord so tight that when the rudders come up it is abrupt enough that the line gets jammed?
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NACRA 5.0 (current)
Hobie 16 90945 (current) Rehabbed and sold to many to count.
Hobie 18 (formerly)
Hobie 17 (formerly)
Hobie 14 (formerly)
Goshen, IN
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Posted: Aug 11, 2015 - 01:00 AM
Ah, I see. I've always used stiff 1/4" line for my pulls so I guess I haven't been unlucky.
I've never bothered to get my shock cord tight enough to hold up the rudders by themselves. It really isn't necessary all you need is enough tension to allow them to release from fully down. The tend to float on their own after that. My local friend who has a 5.7 used really large diameter shock cord, vice grips and strength get his super tight and they stay up. But I hate fighting the shock cord to get his rudders down all the way and sometimes its nearly impossible to do so.
On both my boats and his I've found that the rudders kicking up hasn't ever been a problem but getting them down all the way has been so I don't overtighten the shock cord. The system is very simple, don't overthink it too much.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Aug 11, 2015 - 01:03 AM
Also a little late now, but you really can get away without the welded brackets on the rudder cross bar. Just use some stainless seizing wire (any 20 ga stainless wire will work), to lock the old brackets in place, then you don't have to worry about them. The $57 brackets are a cleaner solution but expensive.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Aug 11, 2015 - 01:13 PM
Ed, thanks for describing this problem better than I managed to do. The stomp on the rudder while pulling the rope trick was providing just too much amusement for watchers from shore so I am glad to have given this up. In the middle of Lake Michigan the rudders never pop up, they can drift up due to worn out plastic cleats (need to get aluminum someday).
Wolf, I'm probably overthinking the whole get the rudders to stand up thing. I guess I just think it looks cool and differentiates it from the other boats. It's probably necessary to tighten the 5/16" shock cord mid-season and replace it every couple years. My wife repairs dolls and when I asked if she had my good pliers (male- pattern blindness) I found that she had a pliers specifically for the hog rings. These are so satisfying to use that I go around looking for places to put hog rings.
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Mark Hirte
Nacra 5.0 1983 - (1st cat)
Deerfield, Il
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Posted: Aug 11, 2015 - 02:08 PM
Anyone ever try this:
http://www.murrays.com/27-0257.html
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Hobie 16 (3 formerly)
MacGregor 25 (formerly)
Chrysler Dagger 14 (formerly)
NACRA 5.0 (currently)
High Point, NC
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Posted: Aug 11, 2015 - 05:09 PM
I have 5 lifts for stinkpots, jetski, & Cats. I also have to round up in a fairly restricted area. If the wind is strong, I furl the jib early, pop the rudders early & walk the boat to the lift. Once you get quick you pop the rudders, release the main clew "S" hook, round up, then undo the downhaul & pop the bottom of the sail out of the track. Unclip the short bungee on the mast,(that keeps the halyard from flopping around).
Experience will allow you to get all this done while the boat is still mostly head to wind. You can now hop off the front & hold boat into wind.
Solo, even in a blow, from here you can now lower the main onto the tramp & walk it back to the lift. Depending on wind direction, that is safer than leaving the main up til you're on the lift.
In lighter winds, I pop both rudders & head up right beside the lift. I NEVER adjust my bungee so the rudders clear the water, that would eventually end in disaster. I use only enough tension that they sit horizontal.
No, the jam happens only when pulling down, as a result of a dangling pulldown line.
I bought the last few pivmatics,(aluminum) that Murrays had. They are no longer stocked, those gizmos are the new replacement. I have not used them, but they look to work essentially the same, price is less than Al pivmatics were.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Aug 11, 2015 - 05:21 PM
That is a real PITA on a big wind day, you suddenly need gorilla arms to steer. If the tube that goes over the tiller bar is still OK, fix them. Realistically, the plastic cams will probably last as long as the little ears the unit pivots on.
Buy the Clamcleat MIDI, they are only about $2.50 at West Marine.
You need one clamcleat & 4 rivets,(3/16" Al) to rebuild each one.
You can do it on the beach, just bring a cordless drill, rivets & rivet puller.
Drill out 2 rivets that hold SS retainer onto clamcleat, it looks like a "U".
Drill out 2 rivets holding cleat to pivmatic tube. Rivet new cleat to pivmatic. NOTE which way the rivet goes-head down.
Drill hole completely through cleat, same place as old one.
Lay rudder line into cleat & rivet "U" keeper onto cleat.(laying line before riveting saves undoing the knot or whatever you use at the end of the pulldown line)
Go sailing with reliable rudders! I did the 5.0 this spring, it's a 1 beer job.Photo is the old cleats, note which way the rivets have to be pulled.
Manually move your blades full up & down, & observe where the bungee rubs. This winter, take your rudder castings off, & remove the blades if necessary. Using a small file, or dremel, radius & polish that sharp casting edge, where the bungee rubs. Marine grade bungee will now last years. I have not touched the 5.7 bungee in 3 years.
Edited by Edchris177 on Aug 11, 2015 - 05:40 PM.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Aug 11, 2015 - 06:52 PM
Ed, Good info. I have new plastic cleats, and you have convinced me to use them on the old setup again. The tube part of it still works just fine. I know they work after a recent rudder-meets-shoreline rock encounter caused by an inattentive person manning the cleat (me).
You must work fast or drink slowly if that is a one beer job.
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Mark Hirte
Nacra 5.0 1983 - (1st cat)
Deerfield, Il
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Posted: Aug 11, 2015 - 08:29 PM
We pick these up in Munchen, or Frankfurt for 7 Euro...Technically, it is a "can".
Edited by Edchris177 on Aug 11, 2015 - 08:38 PM.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Aug 11, 2015 - 09:48 PM
Regardless of the exchange rate, that is an inexpensive guaranteed good time. Bring on the repairs!
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Mark Hirte
Nacra 5.0 1983 - (1st cat)
Deerfield, Il
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