I have a copy of Rick White's Catamaran Racing for the 90's. Anyone not familiar with it should take a look at it. Great book. Anyway, on the subject of righting lines, he states "Simple is often best, all you really need is a line that is easily held and tied to the center of the main beam. It must be long enough to be thrown over the hull and reach to the water."
So my first question is, on a Hobie 16, what is the main beam?
My other question is, when single handed righting a Hobie 16, what is the best position to be standing on the hull for the best leverage? I have read that you should be at the "deepest" part of the hull which would be somewhat close to the center of the tramp area, and I have also read you should be in line with the mast. Which is correct?
Would appreciate any thoughts on this subject. Thanks.
Righting Line
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Posted: Jul 22, 2017 - 10:33 AM
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Posted: Jul 22, 2017 - 11:56 AM
On a Hobie 16, the mast step sits in the mast base which is riveted to the center of the main beam, the front crossbar of the trampoline frame.
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Ron
Nacra F18
Reservoir Sailing Assn.
Brandon, Mississippi
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Posted: Jul 22, 2017 - 01:45 PM
Hobie 16 - tie the righting line to the dolphin striker post. Throw it over the hull and down to the water. You will be standing more or less directly across from the front crossbar. You need to be close enough to the crossbar that you can grab onto the dolphin striker when she comes up so the boat doesn't do an "up and over" and also so she doesn't sail away from you.
The easiest way to hold the line is to throw two wraps around your trap harness and hold the line with your hand. This takes most of the strain off of your arms. Otherwise you will probably fatigue quickly.
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Posted: Jul 22, 2017 - 01:47 PM
I have always been able to right my H16 by standing on the lower hull right at the main(front) beam which is inline with the mast. I never have used anything special like a mast float, righting bag etc. Just make sure your mast is properly sealed, your sails are uncleated and rotate the boat some so that the wind will help you right it by pushing on the top side of the tramp. I do have a Hawaiian righting system. That is just to store the righting line when it's not in use. It makes getting the boat back on its feet pretty easy.
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Dave Wilson
Hobie 16, Hobie 14
Tampa, FL
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Posted: Jul 22, 2017 - 02:49 PM
Dogboy, please explain a little how you are wrapping your righting line around your trap harness.
DaveW70, what is a Hawaiian righting system and how does it work. -
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Posted: Jul 22, 2017 - 04:40 PM
Hobie sells one they refer to as the Easy Up (part 30101). https://static.hobiecat.c…attachments/30101z52.pdf It's little more than some line, bungee and some blocks. It's really quite simple. I highly recommend them. You can make your own even. When you need to use it, you pull it out at the front cross bar and lean back to begin righting the boat. As the boat comes up you just let it go and it returns to where it's stored. Done. I always climb back on board using the dolphin striker as mentioned above. Often when I have a crew with me we don't even bother to orient the boat properly and usually I don't even get wet above the waist. It's easy and fast. And, it doesn't hurt to get on board quickly because even though the sheets are loose the boat will begin to sail.
Rick White, by the way, was a great sailor and a great teacher. He will be sorely missed.
Edited by DaveW70 on Jul 22, 2017 - 05:44 PM.
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Dave Wilson
Hobie 16, Hobie 14
Tampa, FL
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Posted: Jul 22, 2017 - 09:32 PM
The line comes down from the upper hull. You wrap it two or three times around your harness hook. You grab the free end and the end coming down from the upper hull right above the hook so it doesn't slip and you lean back. The couple of wraps around the hook add friction so it's easier to hold. The harness takes the load off your arms. Sometimes it takes a little trial and error with adjusting the length of the line so your body is at the correct angle off the water.
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Posted: Jul 24, 2017 - 08:04 AM
I don't ever tie or secure anything to my dolphin striker
they are designed to take force from 1 direction (top down)
if your line slips down a few inches and is pulling from anywhere near the middle of the DS - you are risking one of the most important parts of your boat that keep the mast from exploding through your beam
I tie off to the mast ball
You can tie a loop in your line ahead of time and simply hook into it when you need to (of course you need to establish the correct location)
My other tip would be: carry and deploy an anchor if you capsize. It will point your bows into the wind (where they should be), it will prevent your boat from sliding on it's side during righting , will prevent your boat from drifting (with zero steering), and will prevent your cat from any chance of powering up after righting
The only time you don't really don't need an anchor is during racing when there are chase boats, and others around to help if things get bad - (but i would probably still have one on board)
Edited by MN3 on Jul 24, 2017 - 08:07 AM. -
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Posted: Jul 24, 2017 - 01:40 PM
Keep in mind that if you attach your harness to a loop in the righting line and the boat decides to start sailing or does something else "unexpected", you may not be able to detach yourself from the righting line if needed.
If you just wrap the righting line around your harness hook a couple times and hold the line with your hand, all you need to do is let go and you will immediately separate from the boat. This is the reason why I don't use a loop or knots in my righting line.
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Posted: Jul 24, 2017 - 07:47 PM
I understand if you are racing, you prob don't have an anchor w you...
and Your method does sound a bit safer (for quick release) but you have lost use of 1 hand and it is another thing to keep track of while balancing a boat and water bag
if i have successfully deployed and set my anchor (step 1 for me)- there is little chance of the boat doing anything
that being said- I don't even have trap wires on either of my cats currently - i broke and haven't replaced my harness crossbar (hook) in like 2 years - and almost never trap anymore... unless crewing on someone else's ride
I have recently taken my wings off so i will defiantly put wires back on my 6.0
Edited by MN3 on Jul 24, 2017 - 07:52 PM. -
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Posted: Aug 04, 2017 - 09:06 AM
This picture shows exactly why i never tie off my righting line to a DS -
sure it might slide to the top when the line is pulled, but what if that clip catches something and it doesn't slide to the top
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Posted: Aug 04, 2017 - 09:57 AM
I wish the water I sailed on looked like that.
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Tom
NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
Pennsylvania
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Posted: Aug 04, 2017 - 10:06 AM
I wish the water I sailed on looked like that. [/quote]
Just change your name to TominAcapulco!
Edited by MN3 on Aug 04, 2017 - 10:06 AM. -
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Posted: Aug 04, 2017 - 10:42 AM
That picture shows the dolphin striker post pulled forward - most likely caused by someone connecting their trailer winch to the bottom of the dolphin striker assembly and using it to pull the boat up onto the trailer.
Since the righting line is thrown over the hull, any load on the post would be lateral, not fore/aft. The dolphin striker rod (or strap in the case of your picture) acts to stabilize the bottom of the post laterally, so bending the post sideways would be very unlikely. It's definitely a good practice to make sure the righting line is slid up against the bottom of the crossbar (or pass it through the center tramp lacings so it is held up against the crossbar), but Hobie sailors have been tying righting lines to the dolphin striker for decades.
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Posted: Aug 04, 2017 - 10:52 AM
sm - Let me start this with this disclaimer: i have seen your posts for years, i know you are a skilled sailor, i agree with just about everything you post:
I thought it looked slanted too - This is Philip's Nacra, I don't know what the story is with it
I have seen people slide off their hulls during righting, i have seen people try to right the boat in the wrong direction and have their boat take off as soon as it rights - trying to hold on by the righting line
I have seen people sail away with the righting bag still attached, i have personally had a righting bag fall overboard after righting - several of these scenarios could lead to forces being applied directly to the bottom of the DS, pulling it in a front/aft motion - too risky for me
I am aware - I was instructed to do this when i started beachcats 20 years ago
it is still too sensitive of a location for me to risk damage - esp when there is a tie off spot 3" above it (on the mast ball) -
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Posted: Aug 04, 2017 - 03:11 PM
Your points are valid and if the righting line is tied to the dolphin striker, it's certainly a good idea to be aware of the potential risks. But on the other hand, it's hard to argue with something that's been done for 40 some odd years. Mine will be staying tied to the dolphin striker for the time being....
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Posted: Aug 04, 2017 - 05:40 PM
Twice the reason for the forward leaning dolphin striker (as shown in the picture) has been demonstrated to me. Both times it was a direct result of pulling forward on the bars that support the rod, either to pull the cat up the beach, or onto the trailer. I asked both times why they did this, and was told that "We always use the rods to pull up the cat. It's a perfect handle." When I pointed out the bend in the DS rod, all I got was shrugged shoulders. Stories of people using the DS rod to winch their cat onto the trailer abound as well, unfortunately.
For the record, my righting line is tied to/through a well placed grommet in my trampoline, located dead center and on the forward edge of my tramp (just behind the mast base). Both my Prindles had this, and I have helped a Hobie or two do the same with their righting line using the center lacing grommets.
The only thing tied to the DS is the shock cord that leads back to a grommet near the very center of my tramp that you put the mainsheet/traveler line through to keep it from siding off the tramp into the water during heeling.
Edited by klozhald on Aug 04, 2017 - 04:54 PM.
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Posted: Aug 04, 2017 - 09:44 PM
We tie all our righting lines to the DS, the loose loop slides to the top. I've never seen it sit at the bottom while righting, & I have some experience with righting, in all kinds of conditions!
With friction over the hull, if my DS bends from righting, I wouldn't trust it to support the beam.
Phillips boat looks like the beam has rotated within the straps vs bending the rod.(Or maybe he was raking the mast, & so purposefully rotated the beam a bit so that the mast was in line with the DS). You can see the end of the V brace strap is not at the bottom of the curve where the beam sits. I have done this on the 5.7 after some really hard bashing. The beam is prevented from rotating by the 1/2 moon chocks inside the front beam, like so;
If the beam slips, it will travel until the bolt hits the edge of the hole,(possibly enlarged due corrosion), or until it hits the tramp track.
Who knows, he may have just set the boat up, I see the mast is still pinned to the ball. He would remove that pin before sailing.
Edited by Edchris177 on Aug 04, 2017 - 10:04 PM.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
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Posted: Aug 05, 2017 - 12:18 AM
That pic was before the main beam was replaced.
The reason for the replacement? Corrosion. See the pics below. They are in his album.
The post and compression tube were wobbling around in the whole.
Sheet the main and the post tilted back, loosen the main and it went back forward.
It has nothing to do with the righting line and the post was not bent.
This was years ago and the boat is still sailed, raced and is competitive today.
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Ron
Nacra F18
Reservoir Sailing Assn.
Brandon, Mississippi
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Posted: Aug 05, 2017 - 12:03 PM
I like the righting system on my Dart. It is wholly contained within the front beam, retracted by bungee cord. When required, just pull the red ball. When you let it go it retracts out of the way.
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Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
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