Again, I'm a new guy when it comes to cats so I have ALOT of questions. So far, the 3 times I've taken my Prindle 16 out it has taken me a good hour and half to rig by myself. I'm considering pre-rigging everything I can the night before in the garage so it wouldn't take as long in the parking lot. Basically thinking about leaving the boom with main attached and folded up along with the main and jib sheets ready to go and everything under a tarp and bungeed down. Basically so all it would take to get in the water would be raise mast, jib, and main and its done.
Any thoughts? I can't come up with a reason why this might be a bad idea but I haven't seen anyone else do it either. Thanks
Nick
Rigging Quickly
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 01:37 AM
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 06:07 AM
If your boat is at home, there are lots of things you can do.
After returning home and washing everything down.
Leave your jib blocks and jib sheets attached
Leave your mainsheet and blocks attached.
You can leave your tiller extension attached, just make sure it is secured when trailering.
Make sure all lines are secure before trailering.
Leave your rudders attached, I use a block of wood the shape of the open space in the rudder casting when the rudder is raised to its highest level. There is a hole in the block of wood for a line to tie it off so it will remain there.
If you like I will send you a picture of what I use.
When you drop the mast from your last sail, leave the shrouds and trap wires attached, coil them up carefully and use plastic ties to secure them while trailering. Before you raise the mast on your next sail move the shroud adjustment up 2 or 3 holes on one of the adjusters. It will make attaching the forestay much easier, then retighten before you go out.
Make sure you cover your boat with a tarp or whatever you have to protect everything while it is at home.
Now when you get to where you go sailing all you should have to do, is raise the mast and the sails, if there are 2 of you it can be done in 15-20 minutes. -
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 06:20 AM
i have been sailing for 33+ years, cats for the past decade or so.
it still takes me about an hour to rig solo... its just part of the deal on my cat -
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 07:04 AM
Nick said he had a Prindle 16
Raise the mast 10 minutes
Raise the jib 5 minutes
Raise the main 5 minutes -
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 07:58 AM
I also sail a much bigger (and heavier) cat than a 16, i was just trying to give him some point of reference, when i said "rigging solo on my cat"
Edited by MN3 on Jul 25, 2012 - 10:50 AM. -
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 08:53 AM
If you leave everything pretty much put together, lashing the standing rigging to the mast. Lashing the running rigging to to the tramp. And securing the rudders. Most of what you will have to do is attach the shrouds and unlash everything when you get there. You can leave the bridle in place and attach the jib sheet to it, tensioning it all with the jib blocks. Best I ever did on my Nacra 5.2 was about 50 minutes, you might shave a few off if you do it enough. I don't trailor it very often.
Whatever you do, do NOT be tempted to use quick pins on the standing rigging. That is a sure way to drop a mast on someone's head. You can use quick pins on other parts though.
Andrew does have a big nasty cat made by some strange foreign manufacturer that doesn't even speak english. :) Everything from Quebec takes a long time, probably because you have to drink a liter of wine before you start. :)
Regards,
Dave
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 10:52 AM
that explains a lot -
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 12:10 PM
In my experience with my P18 the rigging time can vary from 20-30 min to the hour and a half you talking about. The biggest factor with be you becoming more familiar with the process and learning where you can improve.
If you have a sail box of some sort I would not worry about keeping the boom and sails strapped to the tramp keep them in the box where they go.
Leaving rudders on can help but I can put my entire rudder setup on in 5 min so it's not a big deal it is just experience. I leave my rudders all together in one piece so all I have to do is pin them to the grudgeons. Easier with 2 people but can be done with one fairly easily with practice. I loosen the line that holds them a bit so when they fold in they meet even ly in the middle then I wrap a spare bit of rope around them in the center to old it all together.
Get a quickpin to connect your boom to the mast. It should be a 1/4 inch thickness by 1.5 inch long
http://www.westmarine.com…ssNum=50056#.UBAyT0TYNEM
You also want one to connect the main to the end of the boom. It may be able to be a shorter one. These have a small hole in them, use it to create a lanyard out of a small bit rope or string like a really small batten tie or something and tie them to a point close to where they are used.
I also use a quick pin shackle combo to connect my upper blocks to the bottom of the boom.
http://www.murrays.com/mm…de=C-MO-CO&Store_Code=MS
You might find this cheap somewhere else but I could not find a West Marine link for them like I did for the above. The ones above are much cheaper as West Marine than Murrays.
Those are really the only places I would use the Quick pins.
Raising jib and main are mostly practice to set the rings or halyard notches and apply the downhauls. I am a newb to the P16 wire halyard myself and am not in love with the process.
Like they said leave all the rigging connected and loosen one shroud by moving it up several holes then repining it. This gives you lots of slack to easily pin the forestay. Once you have the turnbuckle on the forestay set where you want it the first time tape off the nuts and leave it you do not have to adjust this every time. After that with one side loose you just connect the forestay up easy. Then have someone hang off the trap lines on the loosened side to apply tension and remove the pin and move it to its original position. If you have no help you can rig a rope to the traps that you can step to apply your own weight to provide tension to allow you to repin it. You coil the rigging for each side and attach to the hiking straps or something else suitable on the tramp. Some people remove the port covers and push the rigging lines down into the hulls for trailering.
Edited by Quarath on Jul 25, 2012 - 12:12 PM.
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 12:19 PM
I would like to see a picture of that. In fact if you would trace the outline on a paper and scan it and post it that would be cool I could use it as a template.
I don't leave mine on for long trailering but I left them on for the 10 min drive back from the Great Salt Lake yesterday. It was my first time out there and we needed to get home quick. It worked out all right but you have to have something to keep the mast above the level of the crossbar. My homemade mast caddy is just barely tall enough but not as much as I would like.
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 12:35 PM
That all makes pretty good sense and I'm sure a lot of it will come with time and practice too.. and getting into a routine. After leaving one of the drain plugs sitting in the parking lot part of my routine now is checking the plugs at least 3 or 4 times! Thanks! -
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 01:22 PM
http://www.thebeachcats.com/forums/viewtopic/topic/13170/start/0
You can see Coastrat's just tying his rudders up and the tiller in place to the mast, the rope probably gives it a nice cushion. That's one way, in addition to the wood-in-place method to keep the rudders up and from getting damaged while trailering. I personally always take mine off for fear of the rudder pins and gudgeons getting damaged.. but I trailer for quite a distance on bumpy Los Angeles streets, and have to remove the rudders to fit my boat in a garage, so they're already off.
My P16 went from taking an hour and a half to now about 45 minutes to fully set up. It's about being familiar with everything and finding what order of the steps works best for you. I am going to experiment with attaching the standing rigging/trapeze wires connected while I trailer. My mast is stored separately from my boat so I cannot keep it connected all the time. Otherwise, I keep my jib blocks/sheet/pullies on my tramp when I trailer, it's just tucked into a pocket on the tramp. And I keep my mainsheet and blocks attached to my boom, which is in my truck when I trailer.
So when I sail solo I get to the launch ramp parking lot and it goes a little like this:
1.unplug the trailer wires, so they are't on when my lights dip into the water.
2.lay the mast down beside boat, attach standing rigging from mast to their corresponding places, free of obstruction I move the mast to the center on the boat and aft to attached it to the mast-step pin. Then raise it, and attach the forestay to the bridles. Then walk around and retighten the shrouds and untangle the trapeze wires.
3.Attach the rudders (the rudders/casting/tiller/extension are already ready to go, I store them this way, just folded together)
4.rig the boom to mast, mainsheet to traveler, tie my traveler sheet end to my main sheet through a bungee loop in the tramp (Keeps them from ever washing overboard, learned that here -thanks everyone)
5.prep the jib by attaching the clew to the pullies with a swivel attachment piece incase it ever twists, this will keep the jib sheets untangled. And begin maybe 6" to 1' of the jib zipper luff up the forestay, then I usually put valcrow or a bungee around the rest of crumbled (sometimes rolled) jib to keep it neat before getting to the dock when I raise it.
6.toss the mainsail on the trampoline and attach the main halyard to the head (top) of the sail, but leave the rest rolled up on the tramp before I put the boat in the water and raise that too
I think those steps are pretty in line with the Prindle manual.
At that point, it's just launching, and raising the sails, putting down the rudders. I keep a trampoline bag on with me to store the bungees or valrow and all the extra main halyard once the sail is up. I raise the main first, my mainsheet out completely, then I raise the jib, store that half-halyard thing, then I slam down the rudders, then I untie from the dock and set sail.
Probably more info than you needed to know. It took about 10 times until I got it down to a method, and when people come sailing with me I give them elementary tasks like finding my hull plugs in a box of tools or spraying the mainsail curf with a lubricant.
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Redondo Beach, CA
'80 Prindle 16.
(Got it for free!)
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 08:00 PM
Pretty good system. Leaving the mast and rigging all together will bring your time down a lot. Even if you just set hat part up at home. You put the mast base up on the trailer mast stand and the mast head aft. I will take a picture of mine stored. If you need to remove the mast at home for storage then just undo the the shackle that holds the upper rigging to the mast and remove the mast but leave the rest attached to the boat.
I'd also put the Jib up while on the trailer. Unless wind is howling just leave it uncreated or if worried what I do is manually furl it around the forestay and tie it in place with a small bit of line through clew. Then just before you put up the main you can unfurl it and connect it to your jib sheets. I have a furler on my P18 so this step is automatic for me know.
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 08:50 PM
For my G-Cat 5.7, I use a quick pin on the mast forestay. The side stays and trap wires stay connected all the time - since the boat is trailered stern-first, I just have to slide the mast base up to the ball. I use a small zip tie to safety the forestay quick pin - I use the kind of pin that has a loop. It isn't going anywhere. I replaced the mast ball pin with a cheap phillips screwdriver - no wrestling getting it in or out - plus it has a lanyard so I'm not likely to forget and leave it in. I use velcro wraps on everything so don't untie any knots.
I use Ronstan or Wichard snap connectors on the main sheet, jib and all the rest, and quick pins on the tiller and hiking stick. I still remove rudders, but have ratchet wrenches handy. No ring-dings are put on anywhere. I've gotten rigging down to 1/2 hour, and will get better with more practice.
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Hobie 16
Hobie 18
G-Cat 5.7
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 10:50 PM
The issue Wolfman was alluding to re: the quick pin is multi faceted.
Quick pins are hollow.
'Helpers' are very capable of yanking a quick pin under any circumstances, and with the best of intentions.
Quick pins are hollow.
Keep them to running rigging.
I use quick pins and snap shackles everywhere I can...but all of them are on running rigging. I think my typical rig time is between 45 and 60 minutes. And I have mast-up storage. But the walk back and forth across the beach from the truck to the boat takes time, so does having a cold one in there somewhere.
What is the issue you (RSabast) have with ring-dings?
As far as saving time, note any time you have to explain to your helper (surely you have one if you're stepping the mast) and eliminate the questions. If it's 'which hole?', tape off the others, if it's 'grab which line?' color code them or put a ring or two of electrical tape on them. It'll always take time, but like all things, it'll get better with practice.
....and then there was that time last week I re-ran my spin halyard for about 90 minutes.
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Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
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Posted: Jul 26, 2012 - 07:21 AM
2 other quickpin concerns:
1. they are well known to "freeze up" when left in a hole during storage. I have seen many people on the beach with a hammer trying to get a rusted/frozen quick pin out of their tiller, or other areas... and not being able to sail until they find a drill press to get it out.
2. I used to connect my main clew and boom with a quick pin (h18). I was aware that the brass clew plate was getting wormed out by the quickpin but didn't pay much attention to it untill... in a big puff, right next to a bridge, during a tack, the pin worked out .. the boom hit the deck and i lost all power and steering.. my crew was flailing to get the boom re-attached and i narrowly missed getting pushed into the bridge... all would have been avoided if i used a shackle instead of that quick pin.
I have no quickpins on my boat, and don't miss them. The time saved isn't worth the risk of one of them freezing up on me, or breaking on me -
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Posted: Jul 26, 2012 - 11:31 AM
Ringdings are not that bad. As long as you get the ones with the little pigtails they are quick and easy. Carry a rigging knife which you should have anyway, and they will never be a problem. Quick pins on shrouds and forestays are asking for a major problem. They are hollow, weaker than the rigging and break. They also work themselves out if oval holes. Most standing rigging ends up with oval holes because of the type if loading. Nuff said on that topic, if you want to ignore the advice its up to you.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Jul 26, 2012 - 01:12 PM
I use a quick pin on the boom gooseneck and tiller connections. IIRC that's all.
I use snap shackles on both ends of the main blocks. I have a large soft shackle around the boom that I connect the snap shackle to. Works well.
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Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
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Posted: Jul 26, 2012 - 02:09 PM
this is my set up. keep rudders on,tie them up with short lines, use travelor sheet to tie off to mast...use jib sheet to tie standing rigging to the mast.
raise the mast on the trailor, drop boat where you want it, put sails and stuff on and go. some folks have to rig the boat on the trailor because they are launching from a ramp with no shore available to rig on. there are a few ways to raise the mast solo, with some more experience with it you will get faster/more efficient.
i useualy have crew and we can go from the trailer to the water ready in about 35 minutes. the big thing is when you have to cross lots of beach/land in the process...it can wear you out!
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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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Posted: Jul 26, 2012 - 03:17 PM
Bill I would think the secret fleet would go in together for a set of wheels. All that nice new fluffy BP sand you guys got would wear me out! Heck if it wasn't for AAA, I would still be stuck in the sand by that beach bar near the tree sculptures. In a rental car at that!
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Mike Brady
Sugar Land, TX
Sailing off Magnolia Beach in Lavaca Bay TX
http://358degrees.blogspot.com/
P16 "Pooh Cat"
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Posted: Jul 26, 2012 - 03:54 PM
i have wheels!...middleagefatman sweats bullets when some real estate must be crossed...secret spot lets you drop the stearn in the water, making the whole experience condusive to middleagefatman. last year after the round cat island race, we had to roll the boat up the beach/hill back to the lot...you risk losing weight doing these things. i sweat thinking about walking across that fluffy white sand...
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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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