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Pacific Catamaran (P-Cat) 19  Bottom

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  • I like that last option turbohobo posted. It would be a shame to see that hull cut up. They're actually really fun boats, and can take a ton of gear without getting wallowy. Someone out there will be interested in fixing it back up, and would likely pay you for the cleanup job.

    Actually, I'll toss out one more option: Back in the day the local sailmaker in Austin, Texas, took a Prindle 16, pulled the rig off, stuck a trolling motor on it, and made a killer fishing boat. The P-Cat you photographed would make an outstanding fishing boat with the small addition of a trolling motor or small outboard. Cats are inherently slippery, so you don't need a ton of engine on the back to make it go.

    But I still think it'd be more fun to stick a Tornado rig on it and take it out on the water!

    Hey, to all the other P-Cat owners out there, mind telling me what that block is for on the stern of the boat? I have the eyelets on mine, but no blocks. Are these for the symmetric spinnaker some of these came with?

    Tom

    P.S. If it isn't already apparent, I'm the kind of guy who'd pull it out of the woods and restore it.

    --
    Tom Benedict
    Island of Hawaii
    P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
    --
  • Thanks for all the responses...I think I'm convinced. I'll go back and give the hull a more thorough inspection. At first glance, it appears to be free of damage. If so, I'll pull it out if there and get the hull cleaned as recommended and go from there. The guy who showed this to me knows who the owner is. Turns out there's a big pole barn on the property, and with any luck, the original mast, rigging, etc. might be in there.

    These seem to be pretty rare, and while this may not be a project for me to complete, I can certainly get the trailer roadworthy and the hull cleaned up and find a new owner who wants to complete it.

    I'll be sure to post any updates...Thanks again for the great ideas and info!

    --
    Paul Manion
    Hobie 16
    Goodrich, MI
    --
  • And yes, Tom, I could tell you're a guy who would dig it out of there...

    By the way, any idea what years these were manufactured and how many were built?

    --
    Paul Manion
    Hobie 16
    Goodrich, MI
    --
  • Not many. Not by Hobie standards, anyway. If it's any indicator, Hobie Alter owned a P-Cat before he got into boat design. From the stories I've read, a number of the design decisions that went into the Hobie 14 were a direct result of his son's experience on the P-Cat.

    They went into production some time around 1959 and continued on through the 80's. At some point in there the second rev of the boat came out, the P2-18. This had a much higher aspect ratio rig, almost identical to the Tornado. I don't know when that change happened. I'm pretty sure mine dates back to the late 60's, and was originally purchased by a guy who bought a bunch of them for use at Waikiki Beach. Your hull number pre-dates mine, so chances are it's even older. (Though the gel coat on deck looks to be in better condition than mine! Benefits of life in a forest as opposed to life out in the sun.)

    The P-Cat went out of production before digital cameras hit the market, so there are almost no pictures of these things online. Still, you can find them in the occasional postcard and in a film here and there. "The Endless Summer" has a segment showing a bunch of P-Cats sailing around Waikiki, but they're all double-digit sail numbers. Earlier than mine, by a good bit.

    Have fun with the excavation!

    Tom

    --
    Tom Benedict
    Island of Hawaii
    P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
    --
  • Hi to all above,
    My name is jack and i live in Newport Beach CA. I just came across this blog and am pretty stoked. The most recent and long time builder, Owen Minney, was one of my closest friends. He past away in December. I knew him for at least 30 years. I met him after my Hobie 18 broke apart in the surf in Newport Beach. I took it to him to fix and he said I'd be better off with a P-Cat for the way I was sailing in the surf. He was ever the consumate salesman. I used to swing by his yard after school and help him rivet mast sections together etc. I just got my old P-Cat back from his estate. This is the same cat I used to sleep under living on the beach in Newport all throughout the 80's. It's definitely and old friend. I'm in process of re rigging her and just bought a new set of sails from one of the original sailmakers, Skip Elliot, of Elliot Pattison sailmakers in Newport Beach. They're excellent looking and the square top main really sets the boat off. The roller furling jib has vertical battens and the whole disposition of the boat is way different from the older pinhead mainsail days. Carter Pyle lived down the street from me on the ocean front as well as an old WWII navy seal (back when the started i guess). His name is Mr. Jones and he sailed with Carter Pyle, his brother in law, testing out mainsail shapes when they only used a rope attached to the boom to sheet the catamaran. Mr Jones is the headmaster at my kids school, somewhere around 80+ years in age. He loves seeing me pick up the kids with the P-Cat in tow. I'm not the complete expert on the history of the P-Cat but probably know a ton about them having been around them for 30+ years. I think Owen bought the hull molds from a guy named Joe Quigg who i think manufactured the boats prior to Owen starting Newport Boats. Skip Elliot knows the exact story as he helped Owen design the new sail plan from the original 28 ft mast with the roachy main to the newer P_Cat 2-18 which used a 31 ft tornado mast. The thing really hauls as you can well imagine. When I figure out how to post the pics and vids from my iphone i'll put them here i guess? Anyways, thought you'd like to here from somebody who's had a lot of experience with the history of this most excellent catamaran. You can email me at jackie@choumas.com if you'd like to chat about it or find out something I might know about the P-Cat.
  • Jack...

    Thanks for the history...we think alike. I am a Malibu Outrigger fan (1640) and am crafting a more modern version of this wonderful, sturdy first "beachcat" out of recycled/damaged H-18 and H-16 hulls...

    I also own and sail a Kite Dinghy Pyle design (1306)...Newport made excellent sailboats.

    I trust the fellow that began the other Pacific Cat thread saw this and emailed you for advice. I love the boat, but it does have some inherent limits, as do most sailboats, particularly those that sail in surf or are trailered.

    Beer is good; but beer sailing is the best.



    Edited by BobBill on Sep 06, 2013 - 10:56 AM.

    --
    Leave places better for having been there; respect others,
    "The one thing that doesn't abide by majority rule is a person's conscience." Harper Lee - Scout, To Kill a Mockingbird.
    Congress needs fixing, fix it!
    --
  • Wow just ran into this conversation! I built P cats off and on for 7 years and lived on the same street as Owen Minney. You may find some parts at Owens brothers shop Minneys ship Chandelery in Newport Beach, Ca. I have seen a few things in there. I raced the boats a lot and have some pictures around. I think I may even have some racing road trip pics with Owen. We had family had #144 and I used a few shop boats.There where hundereds of boats made. Newport boats then by Westport boats/ Westport Marine.
    There are also pictures in the Disney Movie Boatnicks, Owen and his old Business partner where involved in the movie so you will notice Kites and P cats in the film.
    Gotta go.
  • I believe I should add the information benedict provided and others re the Pacific Cat or P-Cat history, as it is the same corporatewyze as the Kite. Newport Boats in CA made the Kite, P-Cat and the Mobjack, a 17 foot glass semi-copy of the Thistle that is still popular on east coast (all were made on east coast in Virginia).

    Back the in the late 60s and 70s there was a lot of corporate scrambling-buy-outs etc-as the Reagan years, contrary to the hype were a financial disaster for most small firms and the boat industry along with many sporting goods makers were sold to get out from under...Newport fell to that fate and was bought out by Brunswick, as I recall, then Brunswick sold the east operation to someone and I believe the original Mobjack and maybe even the Kite molds are still sitting somewhere, idle, though there is or was a Mobjack maker out near Virginia Beach or maybe Roanoke...forgot.

    Anyway, and outfit named Lancraft got involved in CA or VA, and made the P and some other boats until around 1973-6 and died.

    If the firms made all the boats the same, they were known for their double hulls and glass only construction, and for being super strong. Am guessing, from refabing my Kite (1306) that with care, these hulls should last forever, with TLC to chainplates etc.

    Only reason I do not have a P-Cat is that I have no place to keep it on or near water, so I bought the last Kite from CA to MN and rebuilt it to point it is better than new, but I can keep by house on trailer. Cannot really do that with P-Cat and its rigging etc.

    Now I am building the Malibu Outrigger (original beachcat from the 50's using recycled Hobie hulls) which I can trailer and set up in minutes like the Kite...and hit the surf in SF area or south CA if need be.

    Yes, P-Cat is heavy and old, but it is a classic and will outlast all of us, with TLC and a good trailer...keep them going, like the old wood Malibu Outriggers-Keep on Truckin'! Love to read about these projects, particularly Pyle's boats where people are resurrecting them...better and less expensive than any new rig.

    --
    Leave places better for having been there; respect others,
    "The one thing that doesn't abide by majority rule is a person's conscience." Harper Lee - Scout, To Kill a Mockingbird.
    Congress needs fixing, fix it!
    --
  • kevinbhornbyWow just ran into this conversation!


    Welcome to TheBeachcats.com kevinbhornby! Thanks for taking the time to login and add to the conversation.

    --
    Damon Linkous
    1992 Hobie 18
    Memphis, TN

    How To Create Your Signature

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  • Kevinbh...I (we) thank you...Newport Boats was a winner and the firm and their boats still are...one of sailing's (very regretted) losses.

    --
    Leave places better for having been there; respect others,
    "The one thing that doesn't abide by majority rule is a person's conscience." Harper Lee - Scout, To Kill a Mockingbird.
    Congress needs fixing, fix it!
    --
  • Is anyone looking for P-cat parts?? If so what?
  • HEEEEEYYYY! This is so great to see new life on this and the other P-Cat threads.

    So here's the status of mine:

    I had to stop sailing it for a while because my wife had to have a craniotomy. She's all better now, but her neurosurgeon said that any sharp blows to the head (like getting boomed) could be fatal at this point. I gotta think eggshell. So she's voluntarily stepped off deck more or less forever unless I switch to a boomless rig. (Hmmm...)

    But at the pleadings of my kids I'm keeping the boat rather than selling it. So far the only guy expressing interest in it wanted to rip the rig off, fit a motor, and use it as a fishing boat. Just hearing him say that made my blood curdle. So much of the life of this thing is in its unique rigging. (Motor my ass!)

    So I'm trying to store everything really nicely until my kids are old enough to learn to sail and handle it. I'd take them out on it today except for the rigging part. Even with all the mast steadying hardware I built, it's a bear even with two people.

    Kevin, Bob, Damon, ANYONE, aside from the obvious like a gin pole, what would you guys do to make a boat the size of the P-Cat ready for solo rigging and tear-down? Actually, go back... INCLUDING the obvious like a gin pole, what would you guys do to make it a solo-able boat? If I can make it so I can rig it myself, I can teach the kids to sail. If not, I'll have to find some way to store it until one of them is ready to take it as their own.

    Thanks,

    Tom

    P.S. To those who built / sailed / raced these boats in their prime, if you wouldn't mind sharing stories and details about the boats and the folks who designed and built them, I'd appreciate it. There's a ton of history here that will disappear if we don't get it down.

    P.P.S. One last question: The gel coat on my decks is cracked. It's not delam since there's no "lam" to "de" on these guys. I think it's just normal flex in the fiberglass. But the gelcoat became brittle over the years and cracked. What would you suggest for re-surfacing the deck? Something like a polyurethane? Or something like a roll and tip gelcoat job?

    --
    Tom Benedict
    Island of Hawaii
    P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
    --
  • Tom, First here is a site to give some perspective re Frankenboats...

    http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=144427&page=2#entry4472203

    And there is the "proa" link and more on cat[crafting or proas to give ideas.

    To recraft that boat, is not so bad, but picky.

    As you know, not cored, so more or less solid. If you have some soft areas, maybe sand through to hull glass and add layer or two of 4oz S-Glass that extends a bit...maybe resurface each hull...I know big sorta job, but if you have all the gear, love the boat, what else?

    Gel-coat. My kite (you can look that up on SA and see some pix) had a few gel cracks, I just gouged them out, after making sure they were not through hull, and filled with PC-11...and painted...fine after two seasons with our cold. (Stored inside but no heat.)

    If you replace rudders, see if you can fit your blades to Hobie 18 hardware (there are before and after '88 sets and most sets run about $200 $scoots. If you can get to transom, I would glass in a metal plate and tap into it accordingly...picky. Or, redo originals.

    As to spars, not sure. But, if me, I would be thinking of going stay-less and getting hold of decent used or base damaged surfer masts (remove base cracks with saw and sleeve...carbon sleeve is around 14-$coots a foot...the reason I think that way is lightness, quick launch etc. If a beach boat, different deal...maybe loose footed main, using original mast and step etc. Thing is, orig mast etc is heavy and clunky (built to last) but that is personal. Since boat is no longer a "class" like my Kite, so what? (Small fully battened main, with large jib?)

    Like I said, given different circumstances, I would be doing one, Newport made a good boat and with some minor changes, that boat would rip, but speed is not all that counts...as you know.

    I originally planned to redo two free Tornado hulls for a version of the Malibu Outrigger and ended up with cast-off Hobie 18 port and 16 starboard hulls, (trailer considerations). The work is picky and requires planning, but not hard. (Kite was simple, comparatively speaking, save the second mast...but I lucked out with finding suitable Force 5 spars and customized with busted surfer spars (100% carbon) I found on line in CA.

    Patience and the will to do it are the motivators...go for it, add a sprit and larger job...traps, cooler, whatever...



    Edited by BobBill on Feb 12, 2014 - 06:00 AM.

    --
    Leave places better for having been there; respect others,
    "The one thing that doesn't abide by majority rule is a person's conscience." Harper Lee - Scout, To Kill a Mockingbird.
    Congress needs fixing, fix it!
    --
  • I goofed.

    Walking out into the now falling sleet to get paper and mail, I realized the P-Cat mast is deck-stepped, so stay-less is out...

    But carbon can work and the new set-up might allow for easier trailing etc...just the anal way I think...sorry.

    All labor of love, however.

    --
    Leave places better for having been there; respect others,
    "The one thing that doesn't abide by majority rule is a person's conscience." Harper Lee - Scout, To Kill a Mockingbird.
    Congress needs fixing, fix it!
    --
  • So wow you guys have been busy. I don't have a lot of time. The p-cat makes a great power boat by the way, the full hulls and solid deck really make it a natural.
    I have always had all my boats as solo set up, launch and sail. The p-cats mast base will not detach as many others. I would have to make a quick sketch of how I have done it.
    As far as the boom less rig goes you are REALLY going to lose sail area, the original lower aspect rig was powerful we later made the 2-18 and the 3-18 rigs, the 3-18 was close to the same rig height as original but higher aspect, it was great for really light crew or high wind area's but otherwise.... Boom less is going to reduce the sail area further unless you went to a rear cross bar right at the stern for your mainsheet traveler.
    We did some self tacking jibs, the wing forward of the mast gives an area for hardware.
    You can really push a p-cat and it won't.. well not easily pitch pole, only time I buried a bow over the deck was in big shore break surfing.
    I always assumed righting solo. There used to be a great inflatable bag for the mast head, it was small velcro sleeve the would rip open and actuated with a CO2 cartridge.
    I have had a flip out pole under the center of the boat with a pivot directly under the mast base with a water bag that stored in the end. Literally set up in 10 seconds before turtle issues.
    Gottta go
  • Hey Kevin, it's jackie choumas, old friend of Owen. I remember your name mentioned a lot around the yard. I just can't recall if you were there during the times of David Kitchens or Lance Brown? Right now I'm trying to figure out how to post a pic of the old P-CAT 218 Owen gave back to me, postumously. It was mine that I let him take out to CO to try to get a fleet going out there on Reudi Res. I think it's great that you found this site recently as I think there's a lot of people who are familiar with these boats but don't quite know what to do about them. I just had Skip Elliot cut me new sails and had Chuck at Proctor masts replace all the standing and running rigging. He had to remake the failed mast step that was cracked and torqued. I just sailed it with my wife and it hauls ass with the big square top main and jib Skip Elliot built. He was stoked to see it out there in Newport Harbor again. I took it by Carden Hall down the street and showed it to Mr and Mrs Jones who are in there 80's now. Mrs Jones brother was Carter Pyle who just recently passed away. Mr. Jones said he can remember sailing with carter on the 1st boat with nothing more than a line hanging from the boom of the original rig while they figured out best how to design the mainsheet. pretty funny though. Everybody at the Newport Harbor Yacht club where I splashed it came up with all these old timers so stoked that a P-Cat was in the bay again, all refurbished. They all had stories about the boats and the various stages with Owen Minney , Tom Carson and Joe Quigg. I had mine on the beach at 43rd and seashore all thoughout the 80's and the other one was on 52nd street where the Jone's lived. gotta go[img][img][img]
  • So here are the only pictures I could find that are savable, I am in a few pics probably 16 to 17 years old.

    http://flic.kr/s/aHsjSrGXiZ

    These are late 70’s and 80’s the 2-18 going up wind is Owen I believe, the deck shot is a 3-18, I was crewing on, those pics are Monterey Bay. The other pictures are London Bridge regatta, Lake Havasu. Both of these Regatta’s would usually be hundreds of boats. If you look in the back ground between two P-cat rigs on the beach you will see what I believe is probably a P-cat capacity record of over 20 people, the boat eventually went under and flipped!
    We races at that time about 2 to 3 weekends a month. Some of the better things I remember with the P-cat. We had a few pictures of my brother surfing the P-cat at Newport jetty on a wave of about 15’ breaking over the jetty, Owen and Dave Kitchens sailed a P-cat in the Newport to Ensenada Mex. Race (un official). We did a good 75 mile trip around Catalina pretty fun stuff!

    Jackie, yes I worked with Dave kitchens, I worked for Tom C (great guy) for 8 years after Owen, my first boat at 6 yrs old was a Flipper, I had a kite later. I started at Owens old shop and the new shop on NP Blvd. I was a member of NHYC, I remember delivering a boat in late 70 to 80 to someone involved in Carden Hall and I took the owner on the first trip off the beach, in and out of the surf, they kept it on the beach at the street end, a medium blue boat as I remember.

    I am sure Skip did something awesome! Skip probably knows more about all this stuff than anyone along with many other cats, Skip is an awesome guy, never seem to catch him around the area.

    Sorry I will have to figure out how to post pictures. icon_frown
  • kevinbhornbyS
    Sorry I will have to figure out how to post pictures. icon_frown

    Kevin, there are instructions for uploading pictures to an album here and using them in the forums in the FAQ, link in my signature below.

    It would be great if you could create a new album inside the P-Cat album in Beachcats Identification so they are easier to find. Not many pics there now.

    http://www.thebeachcats.c…ictures/?g2_itemId=73548

    --
    Damon Linkous
    1992 Hobie 18
    Memphis, TN

    How To Create Your Signature

    How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

    How To Display Pictures I…he Forums in the forums.
    --
  • jackjrHey Kevin, it's jackie choumas, old friend of Owen. I remember your name mentioned a lot around the yard. I just can't recall if you were there during the times of David Kitchens or Lance Brown? Right now I'm trying to figure out how to post a pic of the old P-CAT 218 Owen gave back to me, postumously.

    Jack, welcome to P-Cat headquarters! icon_biggrin

    As above, check out the FAQ instructions an please add your photos by creating an album inside the existing P-Cat album.
    http://www.thebeachcats.c…ictures/?g2_itemId=73548

    Thanks and welcome to the site, would like to see pics of your restored P-Cat and custom sails.

    --
    Damon Linkous
    1992 Hobie 18
    Memphis, TN

    How To Create Your Signature

    How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

    How To Display Pictures I…he Forums in the forums.
    --
  • Kevin, I just posted some questions to the deck photo of the 3-18 you put on Flickr. That's completely different from the running rigging on my P-Cat! Soooo many questions. MAN I'm glad you guys chimed in here. And thanks for the info on boomless rigs. I'll try to figure out a way to keep using the main and boom I have.

    Jack, that's great that Skip Elliot made new sails for your boat. That's been a big concern with mine: I've got two mains (one may be from a Hobie: higher aspect ratio and much shorter boom, the other looks like it's original) and one jib. The jib is in reasonable shape, so I figured if I needed a new one I could send the old one to take measurements off of. But the main on mine has seen better days. I wasn't sure if it was blown to the point it wouldn't be useful for measurements. That's GREAT to hear Skip's got that squared away.

    Bob, the only softish areas are on the hull decks, so stripping and re-glassing shouldn't be a big issue. A while back I cut some port holes in the tops to do inspection, and found them to be relatively solid. The glass was maybe 3/16" thick, so not the thickest glass discussed, but not thin, either. From your comment on the gel coat, I take it after glassing you'd paint?

    So far my rudders are stock. One of them is missing the tip because a blade fell while a previous owner was trailering it. Asphalt makes dandy sandpaper under those conditions. I still haven't repaired it since it's only about half an inch of rudder. But the other blade is solid, so I figured when I had some time on my hands I'd build up a repair job on the damaged one using the other as a pattern.

    Thanks again to everyone for joining in on this discussion. I'm looking forward to seeing the new pictures!

    Tom

    --
    Tom Benedict
    Island of Hawaii
    P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
    --

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