I was recently given this boat. It is reasonably complete and in good shape. Missing one dagger. I am looking for info. and possible sources for parts. thanx.

No Pacific Cat owners out there? Come on, I told mytlitl he could get some help here!

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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Does anyone have any information on this cat?

The only pic I have of the Pacific Cat from the 1970's is here
http://www.thebeachcats.c…pictures&g2_itemId=73548

Would like to know more about them too.



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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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Hey acorp, please check your email address in "My Account" | "Edit my information

because your email notifications are bouncing.

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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P-Cats were made in Costa Mesa,Ca, next door to Newport Beach, by one of the Minneys. Early ones were 580 #'s, but there were 2 more versions made which got the weight down a bit. Three of them used to drive up from Ohio to St Clair Shores, Mi to race against my neighbor who had one. Soon as I got a H-16 and beat him, he lost interest in the boat. Ran into them again in '73 at Namsa N.Americans in Spray Beach, N.J. where they would run downwind with full spinnaker. They were liked because of hard deck and foot wells making for more comfortable sitting and Harken hardware everywhere. Pete

Thanks for the info Pete, I've added it to the description of the Pacific Cat in Beachcats Identification. Were these boats usually called Pacific Cats, or P-Cats?

You don't happen to have any pictures of the boats for those days do you? The one in this thread is the only one I've got.

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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acorp

Does anyone have any information on this cat?

acorp, why do you ask? Do you have one? If so I'd love to have some better pictures of it.

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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Sorry, no pics. They were called both, but P-Cat was the usual name. I see them all over out here, usually abandoned. I believe Warren Miller, the ski movie guy, used to sail one. The weight was the problem; hard on/off the trailer or moving around on the beach. But a smooth sailing boat and probably first cat with spinnaker (very full). Pete

I have one, trying to restore and sail it need a few parts and a lesson on how to nav. this site, let me know if you find any info. pics. etc. thanks mytlitl

I just picked up a Pacific Cat. It's in "project boat" shape, so it's a bit of an ugly duckling at the moment. But as soon as I have it sea-worthy I can provide more information (and photos!)

Tom

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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
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I just got one. I'm completely in the dark as to the history of the boat, so I'm leaning on the information in this and other threads about it for that. But I'll be happy to provide pictures! The boat I got was torn down for restoration by its previous owner (and, I suspect, by the owner previous to that), so right now it's a hull, some sails, a mast, and a collection of parts. As soon as I start getting it put back together I'll be in better shape to take pictures and post them.

Tom

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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
--

There is a guy in St. George, UT who has/had one. I think he is selling it and it may be located at lake Mead right now.

http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/boa/2865442324.html

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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
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Two new Pacific Cat owners! Welcome to TheBeachcats.com both of you.

Did either of you happen to inherit any literature, brochures, or manuals on the boat? Anything related to the original manufacture?

Please fill out your signatures so we can get to know you.

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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Mail sent. Thanks for the pointer, Quarath.

I didn't inherit any literature or manuals for the boat, unfortunately. It came as a hull, a mast, three sails, two booms, and a box full of stuff. The standing rigging is all there, except for pins and shackles. The running rigging is... well, it's interesting. So far I picked out parts made by Harken, Lewmar, and an unknown manufacturer in Australia. I get the feeling it was being modified when it was taken apart. Now the task is to put it back together.

I took pictures of the hull this morning. The glass is in reasonable shape, but the gel coat has seen better days. I'm planning to document the restoration of the boat, so I'll be happy to put a photo set together as I go. Meanwhile I'm scouring the net to try to find anything that'll help.

Damon, I'll fill out my signature ASAP.

Tom

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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
--

Back a number of years (more than ten or maybe even fifteen) this was contrct info for the guy who still had the molds for the Newport P-cat and a few parts and a great restored boat:

447 N. New Port Beach Blvd.
New Port Beach, California 92663-4210
telephone (714) 645-4520

Great guy with lots of info.

I bleieve he sent me a zerox'd copy of one of the original spec sheets.

He once told me that Hobie Alter's son used to mess around with sailing a solid bridge deck Pacific Cat (P-19), when the wind was up and the surf wasn't. The story goes that Hobie Alter got tired of fixing the rudders that his son tore off and the solid daggerboards he tore out of the boat by sailing and surfing the P-19 in and out of the surf and shoal water.

Looking for solutions, Hobie Alter came up with the famous, kick up rudder system he eventually used his first hobie cat and the boardless design.

When he looked for ways to market it, he noticed that the design and weight made righting and shipping the boat more complicated (or impossible) and more expensive.

That's when he hit on the idea of a de-mountable beams and a trampoline instead of the solid bridge and the boardless design of the asymetrical hulls.

I used mine for years, inlcuding dragging it down to Mexcio's Sea of Cortez.

We often put four scuba divers, lunch and equipment on it for the day.

We even hung a 35 hp outboard on it, to push it when the wind didn't blow.

A few times, minus the four guys and equipment, we even used it to pull a water skier.

I blew up the fully battened main a number of years ago. I've thought of trying to modify a sial from Minney's (Southern California) or cutting the boom and using a Hobie 16 sail.

I'm also thinking of letting the boat go to a worthy new owner, now that I've been using a Stiletto 27 instead.

Right now it is sitting on the shores of Bear Lake, Idaho.



Edited by scubasail on May 11, 2012 - 10:09 AM.

Hey, thanks for posting all this!

I've got an original main, complete with wooden battens. It's still in remarkably good shape for a sail that's as old as it is. If you decide you want something made to original spec, I'd be happy to take measurements off my main and send them to your sailmaker. The main I have was made by North.

I also have a short boom and a second main that may well have come from a Hobie. The smaller (less roachy) main came from Frank Rice. I'm pretty sure it's a newer sail, despite its more decrepit condition (this one NEEDS a cleaning). The shorter boom looks well-used, so I'm pretty sure the idea works, if you decide to go that route.

If you have any photos of your boat, would you mind posting them? I think I have almost everything sorted out at this point, but every bit of information helps.

Thanks again, scubasail!

Tom

--
Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
--

I'm not sure I know how to post photos on the beachcat forum.

The old Newport Pacific Catamarans were great boats.

Wikipedia states that 1960 brought another "original" beach cat appeared in California, the Pacific Cat. The Pacific Cat was designed by Carter Pyle and was first built in 1960 just slightly smaller than 19' by 8' solid fiberglass catamaran with a solid core deck and traditional catamaran sail plan. The design's chief flaw was weight, with Pacific Cats weighing in at over 500 lbs. with approximately 300 square feet (28 m2) of sail area. The design was also a traditional design from the naval architecture view with dagger boards and a hard deck... the Pacific Cat demonstrated that is was adept at handling the daunting Pacific coast surf, probably due to the momentum it carried even with the limited [for the time] sail plan. The Pacific Cat boats were (are?) made by Newport Boats / Mobjack Manufacturing.

References
^ [1]
^ American Sail www.AmericanSail.com
^ Yachting Magazine, July 1970
^ Time magazine, "The Cat that Flies", September 1968

I always worried that someone could get killed by one of the original metal daggerboards, if the boat ever flipped.

I can say from personal experience that one couldn't sink that boat.

I personally have (unintentionally) tired a few times.

Though the hulls fill with water, the solid bridge deck has more than enough floatation to keep the boat afloat.

Even loaded with that old 35 hp outboard, four scuba divers, lunch and all the equipment strapped to it, it wouldn't sink.

It floated at an angle of about 45 degrees, bows up, due to the 35 hp outboard. It remained pretty stable and we thought we'd just ride the drifting boat in, de-water it and sail it back to our beach camp, while exploring areas of the Sea of Cortez.

However, out of no where a passing dive boat appeared and towed us in to a marina, where we sunk the trailer and put the submerged boat on it, then slowly and carefully pulled the trailer up the launch ramp.

That allowed the water, trapped between the double hull to slowly escape, without blowing the hull apart.

We thoroughly dosed the outboard with fresh water inside and out, let it dry over night, changed the fluids and it fired right up.

That resulted in another few days of fun in the Mexico sun, using the P-cat, minus the main that we blew out causing the original mishap (if you can call an over-loaded P-cat and goofing off, a mis-hap).

From these and other experiences, I can pretty well say that no one would EVER be able to right a Newport Pacific (P-19) catamaran after flipping it.

The mast isn't water tight and even if it were, it would never keep the boat on its side.

The boat would come to rest either swapped right-side up or up-side down and there it would stay.

In our case, had we not had the 35 hop outboard on its stern, I think we could have used our scuba BCDs to float it high enough to get the eater out of the hulls.

Boy have we had fun on that boat.

A number of years ago, I saw one other Newport Pacific (P-19) on a Utah lake.

It was new looking and the sailors made that boat sing across the water...double trapped and flying the windward hull.

Man did they make that boat go, sailing it like I do on my other more modern beachcats.

I never sail P-19 that aggressively, fearing I'd never right it, if capsized.

Here's some photos that look exactly like my boat, only mine was set up for a spinnaker and roller furler. Mine also had chicken straps (foot straps stretched across the foot wells (bow to stern) to hang out on when sailing fast. It also is equipped with trap lines for hiking out when sailing even faster. A nice feature was a pad that snapped onto and covered the entire solid bridge deck.

Talk about "comfy" lounging and sailing.

I also always though the boat could benefit from having a front tramp installed for lounging at anchor or while sailing or motoring slow. We had a 1 1/2 hp Cruise-n-carry (a weedwacker type engine but an outboard weighing only a few pounds) on it for a while, but the 35 got us places lots faster when the wind wasn't blowing.

(If you can't view the photos in this post, then go to the following website and see them there
http://www.sailingtexas.com/spacificcat18a.html )

Tom House (aka scubasail)
Farmington, Utah and Bear Lake, Idaho

Great write up!
Here's the active link:
http://www.sailingtexas.com/spacificcat18a.html

--
Philip
--

I own a P Cat - registered in utah

It is a great catamaran to sail ... yes I've flown the full Symetrical Spinaker also ...

I dont' think this boat can flip - I've never come close.

John Haydukovich

p.s. perhaps we will see a revival of the PCat

p.p.s I want to construct a square top main sail with even more sail area - I think the boat could handle it.



Edited by Haydukovich on May 11, 2012 - 03:14 PM.

Philip, I just read the description on that link you posted. That boat at the Sailboat Shop in Austin was last registered in Hawaii?!

This is WEIRD!! I used to buy all the hardware for my Prindle 16 from Claude at the Sailboat Shop. We sailed that thing all over the Highland Lakes in Texas. Then I moved to Hawaii and had to leave my Prindle behind. Ten years later I pick up a P-Cat from a guy on the other side of the island. While trying to get the boat registered, I learn the whole history of the boat from the guy picking it up as it came out of the mold at Mobjack all the way until it reached my doorstep.

Turns out a guy from Honolulu picked up a whole bunch of P-Cats, stuck them on a ship, and moved them to Oahu. Mine was one from that set. He and a bunch of other guys raced them all around Diamondhead. Eventually a guy here on the Big Island bought it, and the owner previous to me bought it from him. Four owners total.

I'd love to find out the sail number on that boat at the Sailboat Shop. I have no idea if the guy who picked up that shipment from Mobjack back in the day got consecutive hull numbers, but there's a good chance that thing is only a few off from mine.

Gotta love it when things come full-circle!

Tom

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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
--

On the hull construction of the P-Cat:

I installed a pair of 5" inspection ports in mine just forward of the deck. All manner of humidity wafted out of the holes after I cut them. (24 hours later they were bone dry.)

I stuck a camera down into the hull and took pictures:



The inside is filled halfway with closed cell foam blocks. The blocks hadn't absorbed any water, and were still quite light. The fiberglass was moist to the touch until it dried out.

This is a second set of photos stitched into a composite, looking aft:



In the upper quarter you can see the cavity of the forward beam arcing up and to the right. In the lower quarter you can see the foam blocks extending aft underneath the foot wells where the daggerboard trunks go.

As far as I can tell the boat is solid fiberglass. No foam, no balsa. That might be different under the hard deck, but I haven't managed to get a camera in there yet. There are reinforcing ribs in strategic places (visible in both photos) that appear to be made of hollow fiberglass that had been draped over some sort of mold.

There are also some reinforcing crossbeams down inside the hulls. The upper photo shows one of these in the foreground, with foam nestled beneath it. That's not burlap. Just moldy fiberglass. It's hard as a rock.

All the lighting for these was sunlight shining through the fiberglass. No artificial lighting was used. So the colors are characteristic of the fiberglass the light is passing through. The lower parts of the hull are a different color from the upper deck, which has more of a green tinge. The deck has an intermediate gel coat layer that looks like a funky green. I'm pretty sure this is what's causing the color of the light passing through the glass on the deck.

You can see this green gel coat layer in this photo where I was filling in a bunch of old screw holes:



Not sure why the deck was coated different from the rest of the boat. In any case the hull is all one color now, upper and lower halves alike, except for the stripe at the waterline that all P-Cats appear to have. In my case it's red.

Tom

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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
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Hey cool! Thanks to a Craigslist posting for a P-Cat, I found out the Pacific Catamaran makes a cameo appearance in the movie "The Endless Summer". Right around 59:00 there's a nice segment on sailing (and surfing!) the P-Cat in the waters around Waikiki. Hulu has the movie in case anyone is interested.

Tom

EDIT: Hey, even better! The Endless Summer is on Youtube. Go to about 6:49 here and you'll see the bit on the P-Cats:
http://www.youtube.com/wa…8LbAG0wtI&feature=relmfu

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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
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Good to see the old P-cat alive and well. I worked with the original builder for over 10 years. raced the boats heavily. You will also see the P-cats in many seens of the Disney Film "Boat niks" some of the sailors where also the builders. Newport Boats the original builder and Westport boats are now gone but you can find parts around. Construction of the boats varied alot over the years with competition of new boats but the boat is still very competive with the addition of the P218 rigg. Enjoy!

Hey, thanks for chiming in on this thread! I'm still trying to piece things together from hints and photos. I hope you don't mind if I occasionally barrage you with questions.

I was looking in Royce's Sailing Illustrated, where he had a diagram of the original P-Cat rig, the P2-18 rig, and a Tornado all side-by-side. It struck me how similar the P2-18 and the Tornado rigs are. I don't know if I'd have much luck finding a P2-18 rig lying around, but a Tornado rig might be possible. Am I barking up the wrong tree here?

In any case right now my main goal is to get my kids out and sailing. They've all been pitching in on refurbishing this boat, and can't wait to get it out on the water. This will be their first experience on a sailboat under sail, so I'm betting the speed will be plenty exciting for them. If they get into competitive racing, I'll probably revisit the rig. Though if they go so far as to start racing, they may set their sights on another boat entirely. (Which is cool, 'cause then I'll get to give them a run for their money!)

Thanks again,

Tom

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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
--

We took our P-Cat out for a second time last weekend. This time we remembered we'd packed a camera, and actually used it!

We put in at Kawaihae Harbor on the west coast of the island of Hawaii, and sailed down to Puako, about five miles away. Here's a shot across deck as we passed the Mauna Kea Resort:



We did a number of MOB drills, which gave us some opportunities to photograph the boat from a distance. So here are two ID shots (Damon, I'm planning to take more in the very near future. Once I get some that give better light and angle, I'll post them in the ID gallery):



That's me sailing away after my wife and son jumped in for a MOB drill.



And that's us sailing back, just starting to dump sail to turn into the wind for the pickup.

The wind had dropped by the time we turned around to go home, so we had a very leisurely sail back to the harbor. This stretch of coast varies from about 50' to 0' deep, with coral reefs the whole way. I kept us deep enough not to stress about rudders or daggerboards, and my daughters decided not to stress at all.



Next time I'm bringing my mask and fins, and it's MY turn to go overboard for the MOB drill!

Tom

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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
--

Great job! Glad to see it back in the water.

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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Hey Tom, I noticed in your 1st pic that you have no downhaul on the main, is that one of the "next on the list" items, do P-Cats have downhaul? Awesome job on resurrecting an old cat......

--
TurboHobo
H14T
H16
P18
G-Cat 5.0
P16
--

CONGRATULATIONS Tom! Can't wait to see more images!

I've watched the Endless Summer clip about 20+ times now with the Pacific Cats sailing. When do you think you could have some vids of your boat?

AJ

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AJ
Barefoot 12 Proa Outrigger
Coastal NC, USA
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No downhaul on the main since the main halyard never truly locks. The battens were still bolted in when I took that picture, so I was a little leery of really hauling on the halyard. But I re-did the battens last night and today, so next time we go out I should be able to get a better shape in the main and pull on the halyard enough to get rid of all those @#$% wrinkles!

But I'm glad you brought up downhaul. My wife and I are kind of looking things over, trying to decide where to go from here. The list of stuff to do is still long, and there are some real fundamentals we need to take care of. But the wish list has already begun. Neither of us is 100% happy with the main halyard winch system, so we may eventually switch to a more conventional main halyard, and go with a downhaul setup.

AJ, I've got a GoPro sitting on my desk at work. A friend of mine is an avid mountain biker with an insane collection of camera mount hardware. Kinda hoping the video happens this coming weekend. I have a trip coming up the week after that, so it's my last chance to sail for about a month. I gotta put something up on Youtube or Vimeo before then so I can watch it while I'm traveling and feed my wishful thinking!

Tom

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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
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Yep, my P-cat 19 also has no down haul.

As a matter of fact, it was originally rigged just opposite compared to a modern beach cat.

That is the P-cat had the main sail bolted to the front of the boom and the boom rode on a gooseneck afficed to the mast, making that end of the sail rigidly affixed.

Rather than a down haul it used a ratcheting hand-crank driven main sail halyard, that doubled as an "up-haul" cable to tighten the main at its head.

I have hull 777. Hows that for a number. Should be ready for the water in a couple of weeks

Hey, cool!

I'm looking forward to seeing the pictures of your boat. (Awesome hull number, by the way!)

Hey, does anyone know how to take apart the main halyard winch? The plastic bushings on mine are cracked and falling apart. Making new ones is no problem, but I have to be able to get the thing apart. Because of the deteriorating bushings, it's quite stiff, and I can't quite get the wrinkles out of the main without putting enough tension on the halyard to make me worry about breakage.

Thanks!

Tom

P.S. It's cool to see more P-Cats getting out on the water. YAAAAY!

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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
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I think I came across a P-19 today...sitting on a trailer in the woods. I have been told I can get it out of there, but its definitely a project. Just wondering how difficult it is to track down parts, including mast, rigging, etc. it does have the dagger boards and rudders. I will try to post pics. Hull #166. Is it worth the effort?



Edited by manion72 on Jul 20, 2012 - 10:07 PM.

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Paul Manion
Hobie 16
Goodrich, MI
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Hmmmmm........ a 19 ft cat loose in the woods. You might want to only go in the daylight.

--
Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
--

Below are links to photos of the (what I think is) Pacific Cat I mentioned above. I can't seem to figure out how to correctly create an album. This cat is in danger of being cut up and disposed of. Is this thing worth digging out and attempting to restore?

[http://dl.dropbox.com/u/92113316/2012-07-20%2012.15.28.jpg]

[http://dl.dropbox.com/u/92113316/2012-07-20%2012.17.32.jpg]

[http://dl.dropbox.com/u/92113316/2012-07-20%2012.15.11.jpg]



Edited by manion72 on Jul 21, 2012 - 11:38 AM.

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Paul Manion
Hobie 16
Goodrich, MI
--

Quote

Is this thing worth digging out and attempting to restore?

Only you know the answer to that question, and I say this because only you know how much time, effort and money you are prepared to devote to this project. It will not be easy, parts for the P-Cat are hard to come by, you might have to adapt certain equipment, the mast for example, if you cannot find a P-Cat mast you will have to adapt a used one to fit and that will take some effort. But you do have a support group here at the beachcats, and endless advice/experience.

First off, check the hulls for any damage, the condition of the hulls will determine whether to continue or not. If the hulls are solid, no damage, dings, holes, scrapes, delamination (soft areas felt by pressing hulls gently but firmly), then the odds are in your favour. Finding the current/previous owner might help track down other missing parts like the mast, even better odds. Sourcing the parts will take time, but the internet is an amazing tool, use it.

Just cleaning those hulls will be a rush, a little elbow grease and you will be amazed at the change, and that alone will get you excited enough to continue. All I see is a dirty cat, some black mold, some green algae, a quick wash will remove most of that, orbital sander with 800 grit water-paper will remove the old gelcoat, leaving you with a "new" look.

I will tell you this though, the feeling of accomplishment is unlike any other when you finally put that boat in the water once again. I have "rescued" 2 cats, the 1st was a P18, but that did not take much except some cleaning and a few parts. The 2nd cat is my G-Cat 5.0, I don't think it had seen water for several years but is now sailing again, what a trip. Other people will think you crazy, but if the force is with you........

--
TurboHobo
H14T
H16
P18
G-Cat 5.0
P16
--

Here's what I found when restoring my P-Cat:

If you're trying to restore it to factory original, chances are you won't be able to source all the bits. If you're trying to restore it to something that'll sail, chances are good. Follow turbohobo's advice on evaluating the hulls before proceeding. If they're trashed, let it go. If not, you have a decision to make.

The P-Cat has solid fiberglass hulls, so delamination may not be a huge risk. But do check it for soft spots. A good hard impact that's been "repaired" with paint may be hiding further damage that might make it un-seaworthy. Check first!

The most difficult bits to source would be the rudders and daggerboards, but it sounds like you've already got that. In addition to the blades and housings, the P-Cat has a pretty oddball tiller bar arrangement that includes two teak tillers. Does the boat come with the tiller assembly? This is something that can be made, but it saves a ton of time if it's with the boat already.

The mast and boom are another difficult bit to source IF you're trying to go factory original. If you're trying to get it fit to sail, you have some choices: The more recent version of the P-Cat, the P2-18, has a rig that's almost identical to a Tornado. I honestly think you could drop a Tornado or a Prindle 18 rig on top of a P-Cat and have a higher performance boat than the original P-Cat. The one potential gotcha with this plan is the mast base, hinge, and socket. But I think a new base could be made for a Tornado or Prindle mast that would let it work on a P-Cat. I'd be happy to measure mine and give you the drawings if you decide to go this route.

Everything else is off the shelf hardware. Mine had a mix of Harken, Ronstan, and a bunch of stuff from an Australian maker I couldn't ID. I have no idea if any of it was original. I had to replace most of the hardware on mine using stuff from Murray's, West Marine, and Sailcare. (Sailcare was the only seller who had the oddball camcleat blocks on the forward bulkhead.)

I'll second turbohobo's statement about the feeling of accomplishment you get when you start with an unearthed fossil and end with a beautiful boat, sailing under its own wind power. But it's not the cheapest route to go. If your plan is to get on the water for the least amount of money, I'd say give it a miss and pick up a used Prindle or Hobie for under a thousand. If your plan is to rescue this poor beast from the woods and return it to its natural element, the water, be ready for a lot of work and a fair bit of money.

Tom

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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
--

Your other option would be to rescue it from the woods, clean the cat up a little, get the trailer road-worthy by replacing the tires/wheels and bearings, (WalMart has the wheels and also bearing kits), and then sell it, list it here or on Craig's List, Catsailor, SailingTexas. There are other sailors out there who can and will take on this project, there are also other P-Cat owners looking for parts/hulls, either way it's a win/win situation.

--
TurboHobo
H14T
H16
P18
G-Cat 5.0
P16
--

PS, comparing the pics above, I concur with your observation that this is indeed, a P-Cat

--
TurboHobo
H14T
H16
P18
G-Cat 5.0
P16
--

I like that last option turbohobo posted. It would be a shame to see that hull cut up. They're actually really fun boats, and can take a ton of gear without getting wallowy. Someone out there will be interested in fixing it back up, and would likely pay you for the cleanup job.

Actually, I'll toss out one more option: Back in the day the local sailmaker in Austin, Texas, took a Prindle 16, pulled the rig off, stuck a trolling motor on it, and made a killer fishing boat. The P-Cat you photographed would make an outstanding fishing boat with the small addition of a trolling motor or small outboard. Cats are inherently slippery, so you don't need a ton of engine on the back to make it go.

But I still think it'd be more fun to stick a Tornado rig on it and take it out on the water!

Hey, to all the other P-Cat owners out there, mind telling me what that block is for on the stern of the boat? I have the eyelets on mine, but no blocks. Are these for the symmetric spinnaker some of these came with?

Tom

P.S. If it isn't already apparent, I'm the kind of guy who'd pull it out of the woods and restore it.

--
Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
--

Thanks for all the responses...I think I'm convinced. I'll go back and give the hull a more thorough inspection. At first glance, it appears to be free of damage. If so, I'll pull it out if there and get the hull cleaned as recommended and go from there. The guy who showed this to me knows who the owner is. Turns out there's a big pole barn on the property, and with any luck, the original mast, rigging, etc. might be in there.

These seem to be pretty rare, and while this may not be a project for me to complete, I can certainly get the trailer roadworthy and the hull cleaned up and find a new owner who wants to complete it.

I'll be sure to post any updates...Thanks again for the great ideas and info!

--
Paul Manion
Hobie 16
Goodrich, MI
--

And yes, Tom, I could tell you're a guy who would dig it out of there...

By the way, any idea what years these were manufactured and how many were built?

--
Paul Manion
Hobie 16
Goodrich, MI
--

Not many. Not by Hobie standards, anyway. If it's any indicator, Hobie Alter owned a P-Cat before he got into boat design. From the stories I've read, a number of the design decisions that went into the Hobie 14 were a direct result of his son's experience on the P-Cat.

They went into production some time around 1959 and continued on through the 80's. At some point in there the second rev of the boat came out, the P2-18. This had a much higher aspect ratio rig, almost identical to the Tornado. I don't know when that change happened. I'm pretty sure mine dates back to the late 60's, and was originally purchased by a guy who bought a bunch of them for use at Waikiki Beach. Your hull number pre-dates mine, so chances are it's even older. (Though the gel coat on deck looks to be in better condition than mine! Benefits of life in a forest as opposed to life out in the sun.)

The P-Cat went out of production before digital cameras hit the market, so there are almost no pictures of these things online. Still, you can find them in the occasional postcard and in a film here and there. "The Endless Summer" has a segment showing a bunch of P-Cats sailing around Waikiki, but they're all double-digit sail numbers. Earlier than mine, by a good bit.

Have fun with the excavation!

Tom

--
Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
--

Hi to all above,
My name is jack and i live in Newport Beach CA. I just came across this blog and am pretty stoked. The most recent and long time builder, Owen Minney, was one of my closest friends. He past away in December. I knew him for at least 30 years. I met him after my Hobie 18 broke apart in the surf in Newport Beach. I took it to him to fix and he said I'd be better off with a P-Cat for the way I was sailing in the surf. He was ever the consumate salesman. I used to swing by his yard after school and help him rivet mast sections together etc. I just got my old P-Cat back from his estate. This is the same cat I used to sleep under living on the beach in Newport all throughout the 80's. It's definitely and old friend. I'm in process of re rigging her and just bought a new set of sails from one of the original sailmakers, Skip Elliot, of Elliot Pattison sailmakers in Newport Beach. They're excellent looking and the square top main really sets the boat off. The roller furling jib has vertical battens and the whole disposition of the boat is way different from the older pinhead mainsail days. Carter Pyle lived down the street from me on the ocean front as well as an old WWII navy seal (back when the started i guess). His name is Mr. Jones and he sailed with Carter Pyle, his brother in law, testing out mainsail shapes when they only used a rope attached to the boom to sheet the catamaran. Mr Jones is the headmaster at my kids school, somewhere around 80+ years in age. He loves seeing me pick up the kids with the P-Cat in tow. I'm not the complete expert on the history of the P-Cat but probably know a ton about them having been around them for 30+ years. I think Owen bought the hull molds from a guy named Joe Quigg who i think manufactured the boats prior to Owen starting Newport Boats. Skip Elliot knows the exact story as he helped Owen design the new sail plan from the original 28 ft mast with the roachy main to the newer P_Cat 2-18 which used a 31 ft tornado mast. The thing really hauls as you can well imagine. When I figure out how to post the pics and vids from my iphone i'll put them here i guess? Anyways, thought you'd like to here from somebody who's had a lot of experience with the history of this most excellent catamaran. You can email me at jackie@choumas.com if you'd like to chat about it or find out something I might know about the P-Cat.

Jack...

Thanks for the history...we think alike. I am a Malibu Outrigger fan (1640) and am crafting a more modern version of this wonderful, sturdy first "beachcat" out of recycled/damaged H-18 and H-16 hulls...

I also own and sail a Kite Dinghy Pyle design (1306)...Newport made excellent sailboats.

I trust the fellow that began the other Pacific Cat thread saw this and emailed you for advice. I love the boat, but it does have some inherent limits, as do most sailboats, particularly those that sail in surf or are trailered.

Beer is good; but beer sailing is the best.



Edited by BobBill on Sep 06, 2013 - 10:56 AM.

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Wow just ran into this conversation! I built P cats off and on for 7 years and lived on the same street as Owen Minney. You may find some parts at Owens brothers shop Minneys ship Chandelery in Newport Beach, Ca. I have seen a few things in there. I raced the boats a lot and have some pictures around. I think I may even have some racing road trip pics with Owen. We had family had #144 and I used a few shop boats.There where hundereds of boats made. Newport boats then by Westport boats/ Westport Marine.
There are also pictures in the Disney Movie Boatnicks, Owen and his old Business partner where involved in the movie so you will notice Kites and P cats in the film.
Gotta go.

I believe I should add the information benedict provided and others re the Pacific Cat or P-Cat history, as it is the same corporatewyze as the Kite. Newport Boats in CA made the Kite, P-Cat and the Mobjack, a 17 foot glass semi-copy of the Thistle that is still popular on east coast (all were made on east coast in Virginia).

Back the in the late 60s and 70s there was a lot of corporate scrambling-buy-outs etc-as the Reagan years, contrary to the hype were a financial disaster for most small firms and the boat industry along with many sporting goods makers were sold to get out from under...Newport fell to that fate and was bought out by Brunswick, as I recall, then Brunswick sold the east operation to someone and I believe the original Mobjack and maybe even the Kite molds are still sitting somewhere, idle, though there is or was a Mobjack maker out near Virginia Beach or maybe Roanoke...forgot.

Anyway, and outfit named Lancraft got involved in CA or VA, and made the P and some other boats until around 1973-6 and died.

If the firms made all the boats the same, they were known for their double hulls and glass only construction, and for being super strong. Am guessing, from refabing my Kite (1306) that with care, these hulls should last forever, with TLC to chainplates etc.

Only reason I do not have a P-Cat is that I have no place to keep it on or near water, so I bought the last Kite from CA to MN and rebuilt it to point it is better than new, but I can keep by house on trailer. Cannot really do that with P-Cat and its rigging etc.

Now I am building the Malibu Outrigger (original beachcat from the 50's using recycled Hobie hulls) which I can trailer and set up in minutes like the Kite...and hit the surf in SF area or south CA if need be.

Yes, P-Cat is heavy and old, but it is a classic and will outlast all of us, with TLC and a good trailer...keep them going, like the old wood Malibu Outriggers-Keep on Truckin'! Love to read about these projects, particularly Pyle's boats where people are resurrecting them...better and less expensive than any new rig.

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kevinbhornby

Wow just ran into this conversation!

Welcome to TheBeachcats.com kevinbhornby! Thanks for taking the time to login and add to the conversation.

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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Kevinbh...I (we) thank you...Newport Boats was a winner and the firm and their boats still are...one of sailing's (very regretted) losses.

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Leave places better for having been there; respect others,
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Is anyone looking for P-cat parts?? If so what?

HEEEEEYYYY! This is so great to see new life on this and the other P-Cat threads.

So here's the status of mine:

I had to stop sailing it for a while because my wife had to have a craniotomy. She's all better now, but her neurosurgeon said that any sharp blows to the head (like getting boomed) could be fatal at this point. I gotta think eggshell. So she's voluntarily stepped off deck more or less forever unless I switch to a boomless rig. (Hmmm...)

But at the pleadings of my kids I'm keeping the boat rather than selling it. So far the only guy expressing interest in it wanted to rip the rig off, fit a motor, and use it as a fishing boat. Just hearing him say that made my blood curdle. So much of the life of this thing is in its unique rigging. (Motor my ass!)

So I'm trying to store everything really nicely until my kids are old enough to learn to sail and handle it. I'd take them out on it today except for the rigging part. Even with all the mast steadying hardware I built, it's a bear even with two people.

Kevin, Bob, Damon, ANYONE, aside from the obvious like a gin pole, what would you guys do to make a boat the size of the P-Cat ready for solo rigging and tear-down? Actually, go back... INCLUDING the obvious like a gin pole, what would you guys do to make it a solo-able boat? If I can make it so I can rig it myself, I can teach the kids to sail. If not, I'll have to find some way to store it until one of them is ready to take it as their own.

Thanks,

Tom

P.S. To those who built / sailed / raced these boats in their prime, if you wouldn't mind sharing stories and details about the boats and the folks who designed and built them, I'd appreciate it. There's a ton of history here that will disappear if we don't get it down.

P.P.S. One last question: The gel coat on my decks is cracked. It's not delam since there's no "lam" to "de" on these guys. I think it's just normal flex in the fiberglass. But the gelcoat became brittle over the years and cracked. What would you suggest for re-surfacing the deck? Something like a polyurethane? Or something like a roll and tip gelcoat job?

--
Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
--

Tom, First here is a site to give some perspective re Frankenboats...

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=144427&page=2#entry4472203

And there is the "proa" link and more on cat[crafting or proas to give ideas.

To recraft that boat, is not so bad, but picky.

As you know, not cored, so more or less solid. If you have some soft areas, maybe sand through to hull glass and add layer or two of 4oz S-Glass that extends a bit...maybe resurface each hull...I know big sorta job, but if you have all the gear, love the boat, what else?

Gel-coat. My kite (you can look that up on SA and see some pix) had a few gel cracks, I just gouged them out, after making sure they were not through hull, and filled with PC-11...and painted...fine after two seasons with our cold. (Stored inside but no heat.)

If you replace rudders, see if you can fit your blades to Hobie 18 hardware (there are before and after '88 sets and most sets run about $200 $scoots. If you can get to transom, I would glass in a metal plate and tap into it accordingly...picky. Or, redo originals.

As to spars, not sure. But, if me, I would be thinking of going stay-less and getting hold of decent used or base damaged surfer masts (remove base cracks with saw and sleeve...carbon sleeve is around 14-$coots a foot...the reason I think that way is lightness, quick launch etc. If a beach boat, different deal...maybe loose footed main, using original mast and step etc. Thing is, orig mast etc is heavy and clunky (built to last) but that is personal. Since boat is no longer a "class" like my Kite, so what? (Small fully battened main, with large jib?)

Like I said, given different circumstances, I would be doing one, Newport made a good boat and with some minor changes, that boat would rip, but speed is not all that counts...as you know.

I originally planned to redo two free Tornado hulls for a version of the Malibu Outrigger and ended up with cast-off Hobie 18 port and 16 starboard hulls, (trailer considerations). The work is picky and requires planning, but not hard. (Kite was simple, comparatively speaking, save the second mast...but I lucked out with finding suitable Force 5 spars and customized with busted surfer spars (100% carbon) I found on line in CA.

Patience and the will to do it are the motivators...go for it, add a sprit and larger job...traps, cooler, whatever...



Edited by BobBill on Feb 12, 2014 - 06:00 AM.

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Leave places better for having been there; respect others,
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Congress needs fixing, fix it!
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I goofed.

Walking out into the now falling sleet to get paper and mail, I realized the P-Cat mast is deck-stepped, so stay-less is out...

But carbon can work and the new set-up might allow for easier trailing etc...just the anal way I think...sorry.

All labor of love, however.

--
Leave places better for having been there; respect others,
"The one thing that doesn't abide by majority rule is a person's conscience." Harper Lee - Scout, To Kill a Mockingbird.
Congress needs fixing, fix it!
--

So wow you guys have been busy. I don't have a lot of time. The p-cat makes a great power boat by the way, the full hulls and solid deck really make it a natural.
I have always had all my boats as solo set up, launch and sail. The p-cats mast base will not detach as many others. I would have to make a quick sketch of how I have done it.
As far as the boom less rig goes you are REALLY going to lose sail area, the original lower aspect rig was powerful we later made the 2-18 and the 3-18 rigs, the 3-18 was close to the same rig height as original but higher aspect, it was great for really light crew or high wind area's but otherwise.... Boom less is going to reduce the sail area further unless you went to a rear cross bar right at the stern for your mainsheet traveler.
We did some self tacking jibs, the wing forward of the mast gives an area for hardware.
You can really push a p-cat and it won't.. well not easily pitch pole, only time I buried a bow over the deck was in big shore break surfing.
I always assumed righting solo. There used to be a great inflatable bag for the mast head, it was small velcro sleeve the would rip open and actuated with a CO2 cartridge.
I have had a flip out pole under the center of the boat with a pivot directly under the mast base with a water bag that stored in the end. Literally set up in 10 seconds before turtle issues.
Gottta go

Hey Kevin, it's jackie choumas, old friend of Owen. I remember your name mentioned a lot around the yard. I just can't recall if you were there during the times of David Kitchens or Lance Brown? Right now I'm trying to figure out how to post a pic of the old P-CAT 218 Owen gave back to me, postumously. It was mine that I let him take out to CO to try to get a fleet going out there on Reudi Res. I think it's great that you found this site recently as I think there's a lot of people who are familiar with these boats but don't quite know what to do about them. I just had Skip Elliot cut me new sails and had Chuck at Proctor masts replace all the standing and running rigging. He had to remake the failed mast step that was cracked and torqued. I just sailed it with my wife and it hauls ass with the big square top main and jib Skip Elliot built. He was stoked to see it out there in Newport Harbor again. I took it by Carden Hall down the street and showed it to Mr and Mrs Jones who are in there 80's now. Mrs Jones brother was Carter Pyle who just recently passed away. Mr. Jones said he can remember sailing with carter on the 1st boat with nothing more than a line hanging from the boom of the original rig while they figured out best how to design the mainsheet. pretty funny though. Everybody at the Newport Harbor Yacht club where I splashed it came up with all these old timers so stoked that a P-Cat was in the bay again, all refurbished. They all had stories about the boats and the various stages with Owen Minney , Tom Carson and Joe Quigg. I had mine on the beach at 43rd and seashore all thoughout the 80's and the other one was on 52nd street where the Jone's lived. gotta go[img][img][img]

So here are the only pictures I could find that are savable, I am in a few pics probably 16 to 17 years old.

http://flic.kr/s/aHsjSrGXiZ

These are late 70’s and 80’s the 2-18 going up wind is Owen I believe, the deck shot is a 3-18, I was crewing on, those pics are Monterey Bay. The other pictures are London Bridge regatta, Lake Havasu. Both of these Regatta’s would usually be hundreds of boats. If you look in the back ground between two P-cat rigs on the beach you will see what I believe is probably a P-cat capacity record of over 20 people, the boat eventually went under and flipped!
We races at that time about 2 to 3 weekends a month. Some of the better things I remember with the P-cat. We had a few pictures of my brother surfing the P-cat at Newport jetty on a wave of about 15’ breaking over the jetty, Owen and Dave Kitchens sailed a P-cat in the Newport to Ensenada Mex. Race (un official). We did a good 75 mile trip around Catalina pretty fun stuff!

Jackie, yes I worked with Dave kitchens, I worked for Tom C (great guy) for 8 years after Owen, my first boat at 6 yrs old was a Flipper, I had a kite later. I started at Owens old shop and the new shop on NP Blvd. I was a member of NHYC, I remember delivering a boat in late 70 to 80 to someone involved in Carden Hall and I took the owner on the first trip off the beach, in and out of the surf, they kept it on the beach at the street end, a medium blue boat as I remember.

I am sure Skip did something awesome! Skip probably knows more about all this stuff than anyone along with many other cats, Skip is an awesome guy, never seem to catch him around the area.

Sorry I will have to figure out how to post pictures.

kevinbhornby

S
Sorry I will have to figure out how to post pictures.

Kevin, there are instructions for uploading pictures to an album here and using them in the forums in the FAQ, link in my signature below.

It would be great if you could create a new album inside the P-Cat album in Beachcats Identification so they are easier to find. Not many pics there now.

http://www.thebeachcats.c…ictures/?g2_itemId=73548

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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jackjr

Hey Kevin, it's jackie choumas, old friend of Owen. I remember your name mentioned a lot around the yard. I just can't recall if you were there during the times of David Kitchens or Lance Brown? Right now I'm trying to figure out how to post a pic of the old P-CAT 218 Owen gave back to me, postumously.

Jack, welcome to P-Cat headquarters!

As above, check out the FAQ instructions an please add your photos by creating an album inside the existing P-Cat album.
http://www.thebeachcats.c…ictures/?g2_itemId=73548

Thanks and welcome to the site, would like to see pics of your restored P-Cat and custom sails.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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Kevin, I just posted some questions to the deck photo of the 3-18 you put on Flickr. That's completely different from the running rigging on my P-Cat! Soooo many questions. MAN I'm glad you guys chimed in here. And thanks for the info on boomless rigs. I'll try to figure out a way to keep using the main and boom I have.

Jack, that's great that Skip Elliot made new sails for your boat. That's been a big concern with mine: I've got two mains (one may be from a Hobie: higher aspect ratio and much shorter boom, the other looks like it's original) and one jib. The jib is in reasonable shape, so I figured if I needed a new one I could send the old one to take measurements off of. But the main on mine has seen better days. I wasn't sure if it was blown to the point it wouldn't be useful for measurements. That's GREAT to hear Skip's got that squared away.

Bob, the only softish areas are on the hull decks, so stripping and re-glassing shouldn't be a big issue. A while back I cut some port holes in the tops to do inspection, and found them to be relatively solid. The glass was maybe 3/16" thick, so not the thickest glass discussed, but not thin, either. From your comment on the gel coat, I take it after glassing you'd paint?

So far my rudders are stock. One of them is missing the tip because a blade fell while a previous owner was trailering it. Asphalt makes dandy sandpaper under those conditions. I still haven't repaired it since it's only about half an inch of rudder. But the other blade is solid, so I figured when I had some time on my hands I'd build up a repair job on the damaged one using the other as a pattern.

Thanks again to everyone for joining in on this discussion. I'm looking forward to seeing the new pictures!

Tom

--
Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
--

Well, if an older boat, UV, weather, water usually takes a toll and the gel might be chalky etc...so for me, paint is the solution. Gel coat has always been (for me) kind of iffy, so for large areas, I resort to reglassing/sanding and painting the thing--but that is me, and I am far from an expert. It is tedious and a pia, but done right, works well.

You wan it bad enough, you can find the way, and do not be afraid to ask and improvise...no doubt you have the weather on your side and can work leisurely...green I am, with envy.



Edited by BobBill on Feb 15, 2014 - 10:18 AM.

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Hey Tom and Kevin, i just remembered that I posted a picture of my rehabilitated P218 on this website. It's in the album section next to PCAT album. It's the same one i used to sleep under when I kept it on the beach in Newport at 43rd st. Skip's new sail plan rocks. the boat is blazingly fast, much to the dismay of the lame harbor patrol dudes.

Wow Jack that boat looks really great, I would like to see it! I am in San Diego but come up to NP off and on. So did you get a ticket for speeding??? We did when we where teens also got pulled over for watersking behind a P-cat which is possible if you get a running start, double ski's...when your 130 Lbs! I love the fat head main I was going to put one of those on my 5.2 but to much $$.

Looking at that rig reminded me of a few other P-cat things. I always loved the Nacra 18 Sq. (except the 10' beam and trailering) they just looked awesome and I liked solo sailing. We actually made a few 10' beam boats, (I am almost sure one went to Hawaii, great for the high wind) cut and added a mold in the center, don't really remember the outcome with the exception of being very heavy trying to get the strength up, of course it would be a loss in light wind but.....
I told Owen I wanted to make a single hander and we took a old boat sloped the sterns off and opened the cockpits up going straight back. I don't think we ever finished it.

My feeling on Gelcoat VS paint I am really with Bob paint it! , Gelcoat is designed for use in molds without exposure to air and if sprayed it would have to be completely sanded out. I have painted at least 12 boats Roll and brush and most people think they are sprayed, the new products are really nice to use and really flow out. Only thing is prepping the non skid, a lot of times over time someone waxed the non skid and it is hard to get out of the nooks and crannies. The P-cat non skid is light in the first place and painting it makes it slick. I painted my original Flipper from childhood (also a Newport Boats same non skid) and it was a greased pig which just added to the fun. In fact I did a total refurbishment for my kids on that boat and made a big rig which Skip E made the monster sail for! Gotta go, everyone have a great weekend! This makes me want to get another boat!

kevin, I think i remember that p-cat with the chopped off or open sloping backwards cut transom in owens yard. Hey, how about that little liquor store next door? i used to get beers there at 16 after pop riveting some masts! I thougt that the 10ft wide catamaran was the one that went to Hawaii/maui? matter of fact, I think i saw it back in 1986 at one of those kaneohe beach parks back then. i kind of thought that it went to Tom Benedict because his name resounds in my mental tapes of that time and Skip mentioned his name. Not sure though Tom if that's correct. Anyway, Kevin, Owen left me with a tornado main that i basically consigned to a guy up in Vancouver, I was just happy guys still sail project Tornados. He also left me a Nacra 5.8 main that i'll give to you if you can use it. call me 213-440-4419 next time you're thinking about coming up and I'll show you the P_CAT. it's mast up on Lido in the antibes yard. maybe we'll go outside and charge around on it.

Man, this is great information. Thanks, everyone!

Not sure I've got the 10' wide P-Cat. I'll go out and measure it tomorrow, but I'm almost certain it's narrower than that.

And thanks for the advice on paint vs. gel coat. Since the non-skid is so cracked through, I'll probably have to grind it off, anyway, just to make sure I get to the bottom of all the cracks. Far as I can tell the underlying glass is fine, but that'll give me a chance to inspect it, anyway.

On painting, I've read here that people have added grit to urethane paint to paint on non-skid after the decks have been done with smooth coats. Is this how you'd go about restoring the non-skid on the deck? Or would you use adhesive tape or something else that could be renewed every few seasons?

Jack, if you have any close-up pictures of your P2-18 deck, I'd love to see how you've got your running rigging set up. It seems like each generation of the P-Cat went through some pretty drastic changes in rigging. I'm still puzzling over the P3's jib sheets. If there's one thing with the P-Cat that drives me a little nuts, it's all the lines crossing the deck. I'd love to change how the jib sheets are done so they stay clear.

Thanks again!

Tom

--
Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
--

Tom, I am no expert, but if those cracks are surface (gel) I would gouge them out with a a bit with a sharp tool and fill with good epoxy paste out of can, tube or made up, smoothing as much as possible and paint...

Matching paint might be more difficult than the filler...and not worry about it.

Once the boat is operating the degree of deck work will become more apparent. But, that is me and my two small boat(s), and your situation is likely not similar.

I was lucky, insofar as the cracks on my Kite dinghy were surface and not on molded anti skid.

On the cat hull, I had some fixing on the anti-skid and just filled and so on, forgetting about the looks, and it worked out...but that is me.

Good luck with the rigging...simple works.



Edited by BobBill on Feb 16, 2014 - 04:49 AM.

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Hey Kevin and Jack! I too worked for Owen and Tom Carson (before their divorce) down on Tustin Av. I stayed with Owen for a couple years building and racing P-Cats. Bought mine # 202 from Jim Edwards(Edwards Cinema) but couldn't afford the payments so he reposessed it. We also built Kites and Flippers. We would work on customer's boats during the day then up to CM to layup P-cats at night. Raced on most weekends, then of course the London Bridge Regatta, San Felipe, Malibu etc,etc. Warren Miller raced against us for a while then moved to Tornados. I'm still building boats, albeit very large grand prix racers. (I own New England Boatworks) Learned about work ethic from Owen. He was a workaholic. Sadly passed away recently. I inherited his P-cat powerboat conversion; "Stealthcat". Cost more to get it back East than it's worth but nostalgia prevailed. Great to see the pic.s Kevin

Hi, If you have any photos of Owens SlealthCat can you post them or email them to
I was talking to Owen a couple of years back and he was going to send me some photo but I never got them.

I have an old P-Cat that I would like to build into a power cat.

Thanks OssaMAR

The closest answer I can find about Hobie Alter's StealCat is that Hobie Alter came up with some innovative ideas that are still in use and being expanded on with more modern boatbuilding techniques and materials. Give it a thought every time you SHEET IN and fly a hull!

In his interview he talked about a guy from Florida who wanted to build a 25' catamaran with more accomodations for weekending. Guess who that was, Bill Higgins, who was the Southeast Rep for Coast Catamarans.

When Hobie Alter was unsuccessful in getting Hobie Cat to build a bigger catamaran, he started Force Engineering with John and JV Cloud and began building the Stiletto 27' in 1976.

Bill Higgins left the company to start ATR (Advanced Technologies and Research) and used his expertise in building Epoxy/Nomex panels and aircraft parts to make it a worldwide enterprise including building many components for military and commercial jets and helicopter blades made from carbon composites. Bill retired and sold the business to AAR which is still manufacturing composites in St. Pete, FL.

History of Stiletto & Force Engineering

Force Engineering was started in june of 1975 with the beginning of work on the factory proper. In the year and a half previous J.V. Cloud, retired manufacturer and builder, had been working with Bill Higgins on the final design and engineering of Stiletto.

Stiletto was conceived by Bill Hiiggins while working for Hobie Cat as their Eastern U.S. sales representative. Bill detected the necessity for a boat that was a natural step for the 70,000 plus Hobie Cat enthusiasts. A boat that would allow them the performance they were accustomed to, while giving them a dry ride and room for the rest of the family while carrying a head, galley and bunks for limited cruising. The boat had to be trailerable in order to have the utility necessary for the design concept. Because of the readily trailerable feature the boat had to be light enough so that the average couple could assemble or disassemble it without help. For this reason it was necessary to utilize a construction material that was lighter than the currently available polyester/fiberglass construction methods.

The material selected was preimpregnated epoxy fiberglass, cloth (prepreg) which is a thermoset epoxy that is kept frozen to retard the catalyzation process until time for use. The prepreg is placed over a nylon nomex honeycomb core, baked at 260 degrees in a 30x14x7 foot oven for an hour and a half under constant vacuume. This produces a light-weight composite structure laminate that is not only incredibly strong, but will float more than it,s own weight because of trapped airspace in the laminate, and is fire resistant. The composite structure has been used extensively in the aerospace industry for twenty years, but Force Engineering was the first and to date the only manufacturer to produce boats from the material.

With the final design and engineering done a prototype boat was produced using wet layup and honeycomb in order to prove the theory. The prototype was a success and the building of the factory was begun. Originally the financial backing of the Stiletto project was to be handled by a syndicate of Florida investors. Unfortunately the members suffered severely in the real estate crunch of 1975 and had to withdraw their support from the project. J.V. Cloud elected to finance the project in order to make it go. The constuction of the plant facility went smoothly although the constuction of the large epoxy high tempature tools ran afoul. Force was being aided by the largest plastics manufacturer in the U.S. by representatives who were on hand for the building of the tools. Unfortunatly the methodes that they recommended were incorrect and the first set of tooling, following two months work and expenditure of thousnads of dollars was a loss. There was some recovery from the plastics company, but the loss set the production of Stiletto far behind schedule and ate up much of the monies avalable for the start up costs. With new tooling built two boats were produced, one for shows and the other for testing. The boats took rigors of testing with flying colors. After several months of testing production was begun.

In the time that followed, Stiletto met with tremendous acceptance on the market. The boat was incredibly fast and impressively stylish. With much of the start up costs depleted with the tooling failures little money was available for the advertising and as such put Stiletto in a position of not generating enough sales. Conflicts between J.V. Cloud and Bill Higgins, stemming from differences in what appropriate business ethics entail, brought about the departure of Mr. Higgins in 1977. Since that time Force Engineering has continued to grow - changing sail makers in early 1978 which among other changes increased Stiletto's performance.

The boat has proven itself well - over 120 unites are sailing safely from Hawaii to the Virgin Islands, Mexico to Canada. The market for Stiletto is there, but needs a comprehensive marketing plan to stimulate a smooth production schedule year round.

Stiletto photos and info found at: http://stiletto.wildjibe.com/



Edited by scubasail on Jun 09, 2014 - 08:47 AM.

Thanks for the info.

What I am looking for is the boat built by Owen Minney in Idaho.

It is a modified Pacific Cat, that Owen had install at the time I spoke to him a Honda 40hp

FWIW, P Cat on eBay from northwest area, as I recall.

I think if I went for one, I would refit it to make trailer launch easier...no beaches or storage here. As noted boats with decent care will last forever and sail like new...Pyle designs were built to last, as my Kite demonstrates daily.

Keep us posted. Nice to see and hear of old boats going...

--
Leave places better for having been there; respect others,
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Congress needs fixing, fix it!
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BobBill, mind describing what you'd do to make trailer launches easier?

I've got a first generation P-Cat on a trailer. It's... more of a handful than my old Prindle 16. Some of that I can ascribe to the larger size, but some of it is just awkward. If you already have a laundry list of things you'd change, I'd love to pick your brains.

Tom

--
Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
--

Quote

Hi Kevin, It's been a long time. I believe I was the class President when your family started racing P cats. I can shed some light on the standard P cat, P2/18, P3/18. About 1980 I was racing Tornados as well as P cats. Owen and I were close friends right up to his ending ( he died on my 70th birthday). Anyhow, about 1980 Owen had a bunch of Tornado stuff around his yard and decided to try to update the P cat sail plan. The P2/18 was born. It made the P cat competitive with the more modern boats in less than 12 knots of wind, but was a real handful in more wind especially with Owen's light crew weight. Every year Yachting magazine would hold a "one design regatta" and in 1981 it was going to be held on Lake Ponchirane by New Orleans. We knew there was a good chance of some serious wind so , I think I suggested,. a high aspect smaller sail plan. We headed to Louisiana with a Standard P Cat sailed by Craig Greeves and Dan Goodwin, a P Cat 2/18 sailed by, I think, Larry Harteck and crew, and John Langton and I sailing the P cat 3/18. I don't remember how we finished other than we had a great time in the speed trials with Jeff Silver on the helm and John Langton and I on the wire of the P3/18 in about 20 kts. of wind. Owen was on a chase boat cheering us on.

kevinbhornby

Wow Jack that boat looks really great, I would like to see it! I am in San Diego but come up to NP off and on. So did you get a ticket for speeding??? We did when we where teens also got pulled over for watersking behind a P-cat which is possible if you get a running start, double ski's...when your 130 Lbs! I love the fat head main I was going to put one of those on my 5.2 but to much $$.

Looking at that rig reminded me of a few other P-cat things. I always loved the Nacra 18 Sq. (except the 10' beam and trailering) they just looked awesome and I liked solo sailing. We actually made a few 10' beam boats, (I am almost sure one went to Hawaii, great for the high wind) cut and added a mold in the center, don't really remember the outcome with the exception of being very heavy trying to get the strength up, of course it would be a loss in light wind but.....
I told Owen I wanted to make a single hander and we took a old boat sloped the sterns off and opened the cockpits up going straight back. I don't think we ever finished it.

My feeling on Gelcoat VS paint I am really with Bob paint it! , Gelcoat is designed for use in molds without exposure to air and if sprayed it would have to be completely sanded out. I have painted at least 12 boats Roll and brush and most people think they are sprayed, the new products are really nice to use and really flow out. Only thing is prepping the non skid, a lot of times over time someone waxed the non skid and it is hard to get out of the nooks and crannies. The P-cat non skid is light in the first place and painting it makes it slick. I painted my original Flipper from childhood (also a Newport Boats same non skid) and it was a greased pig which just added to the fun. In fact I did a total refurbishment for my kids on that boat and made a big rig which Skip E made the monster sail for! Gotta go, everyone have a great weekend! This makes me want to get another boat!

dynopaul,

I'm not sure which part of your post is quoted and which is new. Welcome to TheBeachcats.com, there is some good P-Cat info there just want to make it clear who said what.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
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DamonLinkous

dynopaul,
I'm not sure which part of your post is quoted and which is new. Welcome to TheBeachcats.com, there is some good P-Cat info there just want to make it clear who said what.

Hi, guess I don't really know how to post on this forum, I just thought I needed to add my two cents on the P Cat as it got me started competitive sailing.
dynopaul

It was a great two-cents!

When you click on the "quote" button the previous text is surrounded by markers like

]quote=DamonLinkous[ ...... ]/quote[
(i made the brackets backwards so they would show up)

Don't type your reply inside those brackets, but outside, usually after the closing "quote". That way the quoted part is identified and separated from your new reply.

I've edited your last post above so you see the affect.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

Wow! I googled "P-Cat" and found this! I have a P-Cat. It's a 2-18 though. Which means the mast and sails are identical to a Tornado version 1(pre spinnaker). My boat was built by Owen Minney for himself. He built this one with a THIN layup and with a serious focus on it being lightweight. I sail it regularly and it is the fastest cat in my harbor. Outperforming F-18's, 5.8's, 5.2's and Hobies. It's really nice to see so many people interested in these cats. I know quite a bit about these boats.. if anyone has any questions

db2-18,

Thanks for offer for information.

I'm in Utah and have a P-cat, Ser. # P-54.

It sports a 10 ft. boom as I recall along with the original metal dagger boards, winch up-haul, etc.

I completely shredded and blew out the original main some years ago while sailing and scuba diving in Mexico.

Bummer.

Not finding a replacement anywhere, I contacted Minneys in California on their website and found a used mono mail that had a somewhat comparable luff, leach and the foot dimension of 10 feet.

This used sail form Minneys though a foot shorter up the mast and six inch shorter on the boom would work if I ever get around to changing the bolt rope or putting in sail slugs, that wold fit the mast sail slot, but....

I've half thought about cutting down the boom and finding a Hobie 16 or some other main that would fit the vertical dimension of the boom., just to get it back out onto the water

I hate to see the boat just sitting on the beach....for these many years since the Mexico incident....though I can tell you it doesn't launch like a modern and more lightweight cat.

That's probably why I sail my Nacra 5.2, Supercat 17 or Freestyle 474 and never seem to get around to doing something about the P-cat's main or spending the $$$ the buy a new replacement.

Oh, don't get real excited about the other boats.

I got them all years ago in a "package deal" that gave me 20 catamarans and a few monos like sunfish and Lido 14s for $100 each.

I sailed and and enjoyed all of those boats, learning to sail and eventually selling them for a bit more than I paid.

That finally gave me enough $$ to keep a few of the cats and purchase a Stiletto 27 that was much better for off shore and coastal sailing in Mexico's mainland and crossing to the Baja, where we goofed off, beach and boat camped, while scuba diving and snorkeling.

Any thoughts from you or others on what to do for the P-cat's blown out and shredded main??



Edited by scubasail on Aug 06, 2014 - 02:01 PM.

A couple of thoughts. Why shorten the boom? Slugs can work, so can hook and loop separately or i9n combination with slugs. Just have to sew or grommet to luff.

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Leave places better for having been there; respect others,
"The one thing that doesn't abide by majority rule is a person's conscience." Harper Lee - Scout, To Kill a Mockingbird.
Congress needs fixing, fix it!
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I'd find a tornado or F-18 rig then just use the sails made for that. With my rig, Tornado, it is a wicked amount of fun and blazing fast! Or you could get a quote from a sail maker for a new sail..

benedict

I just picked up a Pacific Cat. It's in "project boat" shape, so it's a bit of an ugly duckling at the moment. But as soon as I have it sea-worthy I can provide more information (and photos!)

Tom

I had hull number 417. The black one with a white deck. It was a 1969 that was previously owned by Paul Allen and then Les Vessel. It won 3 D class Nationals. Great boat and I owned it for 28 years until someone stole it... Sad. So I just put the cherry main sail that I had made and only used about 5 times with the battens and boom still attached and Jib sail all in a nice sailbag that I had in the garage on the ads section. Don't Know what somebody would do with a stolen boat and not all the parts...

You have the parts. which saves much time and hassle, go for it. Look forward to the progress.

--
Leave places better for having been there; respect others,
"The one thing that doesn't abide by majority rule is a person's conscience." Harper Lee - Scout, To Kill a Mockingbird.
Congress needs fixing, fix it!
--

These boats were tanks, but I remember watching them sail right by an entire fleet of Nacras on Lake Havasu a long time ago. In light air they had the sail area to get them moving. We all just floated around getting burnt to a crisp until the wind finally filled in. They seemed like they were great family boats.
dg

--
dg
NACRA 5.2 #400
This End Up
Original owner since 1975
--

The P-Cat was the first cat I ever sailed. The summer school I went to in Hawaii in '69 had 3. That's when I saw an H14. My instructor said it was a great little boat. I ended up buying one from Bob Holland in Va. Beach when I got back home. The rest is history.

--
'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
--

dusty

benedict

I just picked up a Pacific Cat. It's in "project boat" shape, so it's a bit of an ugly duckling at the moment. But as soon as I have it sea-worthy I can provide more information (and photos!)

Tom

I had hull number 417. The black one with a white deck. It was a 1969 that was previously owned by Paul Allen and then Les Vessel. It won 3 D class Nationals. Great boat and I owned it for 28 years until someone stole it... Sad. So I just put the cherry main sail that I had made and only used about 5 times with the battens and boom still attached and Jib sail all in a nice sailbag that I had in the garage on the ads section. Don't Know what somebody would do with a stolen boat and not all the parts...

I read Warren Millers "Tour of the bay" if anybody can find that it's about the first time he ever sailed a Pacific Cat or maybe any cat. He took his wife out on it and it's funny! Willl make you blow coffee out your nose onto your key board if you can find it.



Edited by dusty on Aug 17, 2016 - 08:09 AM.

Husband has been sailing all his life, and windsurfing. I bought him a P-Cat for his birthday in 2007. The person I bought it from lovingly restored it, and knew how to flip and right it on a lake. The first lesson he wanted to teach us on a lake was just how to do such a thing. Swim it around and point it into the wind, throw ropes over the lifted side of the boat, climb up the lifted hull, pull on ropes and rigging while bouncing the mast. The wind blows under the sail as you keep bouncing it. The water bounces off and then the boat rights itself. The hard part of all of this, is the boat taking off without you or it falling the other way; as well as you needing to do things quickly to let the wind spill off the sails so you can collect your things, your composure and your pride. Obviously, you won't be able to right the boat without some wind blowing but we all know it doesn't take a lot with the sail area of a P-Cat. This is a lot harder to do with one person but he could. :) P.S. I would post pics but I don't know how.



Edited by eulipion on Aug 17, 2017 - 05:57 PM.

Aloha from Oahu,

I just purchased a p-cat with a friend with the hopes of learning to sail it, but we know nothing! What are the best resources to learn to rig it and sail it? Please help :)

Aloha from Oahu,

I just purchased a p-cat with a friend with the hopes of learning to sail it, but we know nothing! What are the best resources to learn to rig it and sail it? Please help :)

Been hovering here for some time.

The names Carter Pyle and Newport Boats (Costa Mesa, CA and Virginia) stick in head...Newport made the spendid Kite, Mobjack, and the popular P-Cat cat. Not sure who designed the rig, could have been Pyle.

This was back in the late 60s and in 70s, when the popular Seaman designed wood Malibu Outriggers ran off the sand in Malibu. Early fiberglass days...heavy rigs...but fast. And, as I recall, the rig sported on of the early fully battened mains.

No tramp, but solid deck. Rock solid as memory serves.

If older pics are avail, please publish here.

Also, I have a glass MO, with 6061 and SS, Harkens tramp and mahogany decking, and the best carbon spar rigging with new 220 sq foot sail and trailer I am willing to part with...just getting too old to sail here...boat is a fargin kick to sail and a rocket as is. Pics available and might deliver...depending.

--
Leave places better for having been there; respect others,
"The one thing that doesn't abide by majority rule is a person's conscience." Harper Lee - Scout, To Kill a Mockingbird.
Congress needs fixing, fix it!
--

I got interested in cats at a boat show when Hobie Alter was selling his new 12' cat model. I saw the video and was hooked. I spent the entire weekend with Hobie, manning his booth for him when he had to leave. By the end of the show I was ready to buy the San Antonio franchise (three boats) without ever having sailed one. At the end of the show, Hobie told me a little shamefacedly that he had to sell the franchise to a local boat dealer who had lots of display room and experience. I understood and we parted ways.

Not long after that, I was in a new seafood restaurant opened by a Californian name Gary Argenbreit. He had pictures on the wall of him sailing his Pacific Cat in Hawaii or California, flying a hull and towing a skier. I was more hooked than on the Hobie because of the advanced features like the hard deck, cubbies, foot wells and stabilizing dagger boards. Not to mention the full battened sails and self-furling foresail. I arranged to buy the boat and sailed it in Texas Lakes for years. I had to leave town and wound up selling it. I'd swear it is the one in the pictures at the Austin boat sales, but mine had a white top over yellow hulls.

I used to tow skiers myself and would have the boat start from being tied to the end of a T-head wooden pier at the summer home of my banker. All went well until we started off under full sail and a nice wind (but my friend forgot to untie the boat). That powerful little cat tore the end of the pier off and started towing it along with the skier. I spent the rest of the summer rebuilding the pier by resetting the timbers into a rocky bottom of the lake.

It may have been too heavy to easily work as a beach cat, but our lakes all have concrete boat ramps where you can simply back the boat trailer down until the boat floats. I don't know why it didn't stay popular as a inland lake boat. I still love that boat.

Wildbill2u, back in those days, likely corporate...Newport sales slowed as new and lighter hulls showed up, like the Hobie craze, and sheer change. I went to Seaman's Malibu Outrigger...as a light beach rig, now. 300 lbs all up. Different times, but the P-cat still rules...very good evey little bit of history helps.

--
Leave places better for having been there; respect others,
"The one thing that doesn't abide by majority rule is a person's conscience." Harper Lee - Scout, To Kill a Mockingbird.
Congress needs fixing, fix it!
--

I am selling my old PCat 19, #96, in need of restoration, but all the parts are there. I tried putting an advertisement on this site yesterday, september 2nd 2020, but it has not showed up yet. Pat Quivey 707 951 0198

P.M.

Great write up!
Here's the active link:
http://www.sailingtexas.com/spacificcat18a.html

I think that's my old PCat. Weren't many around Texas when I bought it from a ristorante owner in San Antonio name Gary Argenbright who came there to open the best seafood restaurant in town. I sailed it for a few years in Canyon Lake and went away and didn't take the boat. i left it in my son-in-laws care at his father's place. His father gave it away to an unknown party in Austin. Lots of stories around that PCat. I miss it today

pbegle

I believe Warren Miller, the ski movie guy, used to sail one.

I miss Warren Miller and his movies!
He used to tour universities to promote his newest release, and I saw him a number of times.
I still have a sailing feature he made, on VHS.
Wait, did I say that out loud?


--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--

Quote

I still have a sailing feature he made, on VHS.
Wait, did I say that out loud?

haha!
vhs tape is pretty great for tell-tales. i have a few 100 miles if you need any :)

There's a PCat for sale in Camarillo, CA for a grand. Has a "Prindle Mast", has expired registrations, and needs a mainsail.

https://ventura.craigslis…atamaran/7177049318.html

--
Bill Mattson
Prindle 19 "Gelli Bean"
Prindle 19 "Cat's Pajamas"
Nacra 5.2 (Will sail her a bit and let her name herself)
--

He's selling because he "is 70 and too old for this racing cat" Reminds me of my own age 80 and dreams of owning another P cat are probably just dreams,

Interested in Buying P-cat. Had one years ago and would like to teach my grand kids to sail on one.
I had a white p- cat #229 in Newport Beach.

What I would think about doing is crafting a dagger, using the one you have as a template. To me easiest wousl be to take a piece of mahogany and cut it to shape, feather the edges, stain and glass...pretty and functional.
The other course is to cnc one with foam and glass...
Unless a rig has been compromised, parts might prove a bit spendy...so you know why some swabs do not part with them.

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Leave places better for having been there; respect others,
"The one thing that doesn't abide by majority rule is a person's conscience." Harper Lee - Scout, To Kill a Mockingbird.
Congress needs fixing, fix it!
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Quote

To me easiest wousl be to take a piece of mahogany and cut it to shape, feather the edges, stain and glass...pretty and functional.

Why would you stain wood and (prior to) fiberglass?



Edited by MN3 on Feb 03, 2021 - 11:28 AM.

MN3 The staining darkens wood to taste...not necess, but it does seal wood.

Shape is = to other dagger or rudder (which I did) Glassing may also darken wood, but the glassing is transparrent and the wood shows through...leave trailing edges a bit thick and sand-carfully to feather.
The lead edge or luff can be less fine. I did rudder and had to lengthen and it does and looks fine.

--
Leave places better for having been there; respect others,
"The one thing that doesn't abide by majority rule is a person's conscience." Harper Lee - Scout, To Kill a Mockingbird.
Congress needs fixing, fix it!
--