is this boat too much for a non-cat sailor? I have little to no cat-sailing experience but a few years of mono-hull sailing experience and then also own a power boat that I use for water sports. The cat would be used to sail bays, lakes and coastal waters in southern california. I understand the mechanics of sailing could present quite different challenges and then I have no righting experience. I have all safety gear, VHF radio and know about hypothermia etc. from taking various safety classes.
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Marek
1992 Prindle 19
1981 Prindle 16
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purchase of a Prindle 19 as a starter cat?
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Posted: Dec 28, 2013 - 10:40 AM
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Posted: Dec 28, 2013 - 03:28 PM
The P19 is basically a scaled down tornado and a big beast of a boat in terms of power. I wouldn't recommend it to a first time cat sailor especially on the ocean. That being said, if you already have a decent boat, are competent sailor with a decent crew and start on smaller lakes it could be done. It would be one of the scarier learning curves but no impossible.
If that isn't true I would probably start with one of the smaller less powerful boats for a season or two. Good ones are always the H16, P16, N5.2 and N5.0. If you want a bigger boat consider the hobie 18 (not an F18), P18 (not the 18-2) or the Nacra 5.7. After a season or two of experience you can figure out if you want to stick with the boat or move up to something sportier.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Dec 29, 2013 - 06:27 AM
I picked up a P19mx(racing version) 2 summers ago with very little sailing experience . Wanted a boat to work into and not have to move up in a year or 2. Let me tell you ..we had some great days and a few bad ones !!.. when wind picked up over 12 knots , this boat really takes off . Took one summer to learn how to control her and by the 2nd summer with more confidence, sailing was amazing ! As long as you un cleat your sails and position into the wind ,righting should not be a problem. We are about 185lbs each and she just makes it up when our backs are just about to the water.This is obviously an older designed boat ,but the local Narca 18's can't keep up. All this to say you need to expect going over quite a few times until you learn to control her .But once in control ,you'll have some great sailing .
Good Luck
Emmett Valliere
Montreal, Canada -
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Posted: Dec 29, 2013 - 06:52 AM
very powerful boat but doable
expect to learn your lessons harder and faster (i.e. fantastic flips and crushing crashes)
I would recommend a smaller boat with less control lines to manage .. plus a furling jib is a HUGE plus when you are caught in heavy air... so i would strongly recommend you have one or put one on this boat. -
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Posted: Dec 29, 2013 - 09:11 AM
all good advice here. 2 things. 1) Never separate from a catamaran after a crash, it will drift faster than you can swim. 2. Practice capsize before you get out in the big stuff. The P-19 will require about 300lbs to right from capsize. I weigh 170 and used Murray's large righting bag every time I was solo. I now sail a Bimare F18HT and still need the righting bag.
One drawback on the older designs, are the Jib controls, the P-19 and P-19MX have great sail plans for cruising and high speed, but are real poor at quick tacking and gybes compared to self tackers.
Final point, there are lots of controls to de-power the P-19 main, that are very effective, I would recommend one additional point, investigate a 20% reef for anything above 12k when sailing solo, or with novice crew. I trained my first summer in a shallow lake with a P-16 main on my P-19MX.
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See you on the water
2003 Bimare 18HT solo Sailor
Formerly P-19MX solo sailor
Portsmouth RI
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Posted: Dec 29, 2013 - 10:30 AM
I looked into this boat a bit, the main reason to look harder even though its probably too big of a machine for me right now obviously is that I won't need to trade up when going onto coastal waters in Southern California. We have access to Mission bay and San Diego Bay to tune myself and the ride. I found a Murray righting bag (200lbs) for $50 to go with it...I looked at a bunch of clips and then also read up more on the "Ultimate catamaran buyers guide"..btw, I am a reasonable sailor but certainly not a very competent one. However, I understand pretty well how dangerous things can get, which is why I am seeking more feedback here....I do like the thrill aspect of the cat....looked at a bunch of videos of the P19 that definitely got me going...
http://www.sailingproshop.com/catamaran_guide.aspx
here's the sales description:
"1985 Prindle 19 catamaran, $2300
2nd owner of a Fast and fun 19 in good condition. Hulls are tight and everything works as designed.
- Recent (summer 2012) re-glass of hull bottoms and repair glass of centerboards.
- Newer sheets (2011/2012).
- Original Smyth jib (OK condition, wrinkled and zipper needs small repair), backup Danger dacron jib (Crispy, some creases, ugly peanut brittle color, but sails well).
- New Bridles.
- Tramp is clean and tight with some minor tearing where racing jib setup rubbed against the tramp pocket, always covered. No race jib rigging currently available. This cat has been sailed hard, but still has many years of life left and with a little more love than I have time to give, it could be racing again.
- Comes with trailer with large Cat Box and newer wheels. Spare tiller, spare rudder.
Show off and fly hull all day, or bear down and eat Hobies for lunch, this Cat gets it done!
I used this Cat to haul friends and family around, more than enough sail to take the whole family out for fun.
Prindle 19 and Trailer are separately registered and tags are current to 2015."
Edited by marekli on Dec 29, 2013 - 08:30 AM.
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Marek
1992 Prindle 19
1981 Prindle 16
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Posted: Dec 29, 2013 - 10:42 AM
any boat you buy i would have them rig it for you and sail it first if possible
rigging it will show you how and that all parts are there
bring a pad and paper and take pics (or videos) -
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Posted: Dec 29, 2013 - 08:57 PM
Hey if you are committed to the boat and go in with your eyes wide open, by all means. Take the advice on a roller furler and a righting bag and learn the boat. I did the same thing on a slightly smaller boat a Nacra 5.2. Not a huge boat but I essentially had NO sailing skills and I did it. Having some good experience on a mono hull will be a huge advantage. If you sailed some of the smaller non-keel boats (i.e. lasers and the like) you will love the cat for its huge power and stability. As long as you know what you are getting into, you will find you will catch up in skill to your machine relatively quickly. Most people go in without understanding how crazy the boats can get and end up scared to death or worse they get hurt.
D.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Dec 29, 2013 - 11:09 PM
Buy it!
You now have an idea of the issues thanks to the great advice here. I sail a P19 out of Ventura and it really does start to takeoff around 12 knots. If the winds in your area are in this range you're going to have a great time learning in protected Mission Bay or on a lake. I think you'll have a better/safer time learning in fresh water as I did. You can find your limits and practice righting by manually pulling the boat over. If you're in shape I wouldn't hesitate to push the limits and have a great time doing it. A P19 in good shape doesn't come along too often, I searched for about 7 months and wound up driving from Los Angeles to Lake Tahoe to get mine. After owning a P16 and P18 the P19 is a different handling high performance machine.
I try to take mine out at least once a week and you are welcome to come out to Ventura and go for a spin on my boat. There are a number of details you'd need to learn and can greatly reduce the frustration that goes with learning a different kind of machine than what you've been accustomed to. I plan on going out as much as possible before having to get back to work.
Sailed to Santa Cruz back in November
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VvOGbetU5I
Edited by spfx on Dec 29, 2013 - 09:14 PM. -
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Posted: Dec 30, 2013 - 05:13 AM
I have owned 3 P 18-2's and one P-19MX . The 18-2 is a much better starter. I have sailed p's since I was 10 , now 44. The 19 is a lot of boat and it's true about 12 + mph winds. I have now gone back to the 18-2 and in higher winds it is much more fun. I am now going to upgrade the sail plan to an F-18mainsail design and bigger jib. Also much easier boat to right. I would take up the offer about going out on one first in heavy wind.... Another situation I've seen time and time again is a newbie buying a cat that is much to powerful for their skill level and they get in trouble and get out of the sport all together.
Edited by PIRATE39 on Dec 30, 2013 - 06:28 AM.
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Doug Klem
Pensacola , Fl.
Blade F16
Prindle 18-2 w/spin
Prindle 18-2 x 3
Prindle 19 MX
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Posted: Dec 30, 2013 - 06:46 AM
+1
All it takes is - being overpowered and scared or capsizing in cold water, or not being able to right the boat ... or the kiss of death (taking a wife out and not being a good sailor) and many newbees flee the sport
having an overpowered boat to start only exacerbates all of the above situations
(edit) but if you think you got the guts and determination, go for it. It is possible. I was overpowered and out skilled for all 3 of my catamarans.
Edited by MN3 on Dec 30, 2013 - 08:34 AM. -
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Posted: Dec 30, 2013 - 08:16 AM
hey SPFX, I had looked at your clip a few days ago and loved it, especially the part with the dolphins midway to Santa Cruz Island....:)
I have two boys up in Santa Barbara in college, so a trip to the Channel Islands woild definitely be something on my list of To-Dos..if I could get them involved even better...b/c of work I rarely make it up there but when I plan a trip could check in with you on the way...
I looked at the boat yesterday, its in ok shape, not great but also not bad....sails have a bit of wear where they cleat into the mast and the zippers on the jib (no roller furl). The trailer has quite a bit of rust but works. Overall the hull looks ok, no damage I could see and no soft spots...theres two jibs, one main.. Everything looks used quite a bit but not really damaged...and it's been sitting outside with only the tramp covered. For the right price I might take it though...
If it got serious the seller would take me to Mission Bay for a day to show me the rigging and get me started....I don't think this is a boat I could take the wife out for quite a while until I had mastered the machine. I can tell it's going to be frustrating just for myself...so maybe after a season or later into the season. I am guessing at least 4-6 days out before I get some kind of routine...I would probably only go out in winds up to 10knots and then could let the sails out when the wind picks up too much...
Edited by marekli on Dec 30, 2013 - 06:24 AM.
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Marek
1992 Prindle 19
1981 Prindle 16
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Posted: Dec 30, 2013 - 11:38 AM
Important factor as yet unmentioned.....
If you have a wife/girlfriend, and....
if you want to keep her....
don't take her out on this boat until you've got it figured out!
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Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16
Clinton, Mississippi
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Posted: Dec 30, 2013 - 01:38 PM
actually, I was planning to get a mono hull in the first place but then she threw the wrench into that plan. So I came up with a power boat and that works well for both of us. I still like to sail and like a bit of performance (no racing planned though) which made me think a bit more about cats...also SoCal is an ideal place with beach access and lakes all around....so in the end it would be used 70% by myself and/or friends. If she warms up to it the better...
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Marek
1992 Prindle 19
1981 Prindle 16
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Posted: Dec 30, 2013 - 08:17 PM
The wife advice is very very good. I scared the crap out of mine, and myself for that matter. On the plus side I don't have to take her sailing anymore! :)
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Dec 31, 2013 - 07:17 AM
was mentioned 2 comments above this one
"or the kiss of death (taking a wife out and not being a good sailor) and many newbees flee the sport"
Edited by MN3 on Dec 31, 2013 - 07:18 AM. -
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Posted: Dec 31, 2013 - 07:50 AM
I am studying some clips for Hobie 18 rigging since those are more available...is that comparable to the P19?
BTW, the reason the cat is an option in the first place is b/c the wife is 80% out of the picture for sailing...
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Marek
1992 Prindle 19
1981 Prindle 16
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Posted: Dec 31, 2013 - 11:52 AM
NO ! Look at the Prindle 18-2 . It is the p-19 platform but a foot shorter and less sail area
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Doug Klem
Pensacola , Fl.
Blade F16
Prindle 18-2 w/spin
Prindle 18-2 x 3
Prindle 19 MX
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Posted: Dec 31, 2013 - 12:28 PM
Wolfman , Better hope the wife doesn't read this site or you'll find a mysterious hole in the boat come spring time.
My wife got bored of the 40 minute boat setup (40 more taking it down) on each outing so I'm also sailing with buddies. Upside is we can push the boat quite a bit harder ..
Marekli, when I was trying to figure out the rigging of my boat (I bought it when stored ,so did not see it rigged) I went to visit a local catamaran club . Took a lot of photos of similar boat rigging. What i did notice is that they all had the same principal setup . P19 will have more adjustments for more tighter control of boat and sails. The Hobie would be of a more simplified setup. I'm sure there are more knowledgable members on the site ,but I can definately relate to your situation. For me half the fun is learning with these boats. I've had some amazing crashes ,but always got back on with a huge smile !! If you do pick it up, keep us posted . I'd love to here of your first few outings . -
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Posted: Dec 31, 2013 - 01:33 PM
I have no 4WD but my Tundra has LSD that kicks in well on slippery launch ramps (that's still different from soft sand I guess but I could also let the air out on the tires. Then there's also no lack of launch ramps and no fees in most of San Diego county...what do you guys usually prefer beach or launch ramp?
Finally, I thought about putting a hitch on my Volvo 850, is there a need for a truck if it doesn't have 4WD in the first place?
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Marek
1992 Prindle 19
1981 Prindle 16
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