well guys,...I got caught in irons a km from shore, 5-6 ft incoming waves, 12-13kt wind. I couldnt turn to sail downwind as it had me drifted 1km downshore. Couldn't get enough beating momentum, and I needed a tow back. I didnt have my Jib attached, running Una rigged. The wind just started all of a sudden and boom i was drifting in irons, bobbing like a Mercury Waterbird. Felt foolish. oh so foolish.
**downwind it FLIESSS!
Edited by argento102 on Jul 24, 2011 - 09:30 AM.
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D Johns
Phoenix 18 KC#126
Port Hope Ontario
"If I put 2 Spinnakers on it, will it go faster?"
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foolish newb
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Posted: Jul 24, 2011 - 09:01 AM
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Posted: Jul 24, 2011 - 10:29 AM
jump off the boat and swim it out of irons
yep, i've done it before. I got tired of waiting and the sun was disappearing.
Edited by matt922 on Jul 24, 2011 - 10:29 AM. -
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Posted: Jul 24, 2011 - 11:13 AM
i tried kicking hung off the front, but it wouldnt budge.....it was stuck..lol
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D Johns
Phoenix 18 KC#126
Port Hope Ontario
"If I put 2 Spinnakers on it, will it go faster?"
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Posted: Jul 24, 2011 - 12:14 PM
Push, push or pull, pull.
Push on your boom and push on the tiller or pull on the boom and pull on the tiller.
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Ron
Nacra F18
Reservoir Sailing Assn.
Brandon, Mississippi
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Posted: Jul 24, 2011 - 01:20 PM
use that jib!!! uni rigs can be a pain for the newbs...
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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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Posted: Jul 25, 2011 - 02:27 AM
when sailing uni rigged
- be prepared to blow the traveller in tacks so all the momentum can go to getting the hulls across the wind
- if you do get stuck in irons, release the traveller and mainsheet and push the boom AND rudder in the direction you want to go amd hold both of them there as the boat reverses around onto the new tack
once on the new tack, SLOWLY pull in the mainsheet and traveller to build up forward speed and get the hulls and rudder working. if you pull them in too quickly you will just weathervane the hulls and rig back into irons
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Posted: Jul 25, 2011 - 07:31 AM
Ron & Eric have the solution. Just as you did when you started on monohulls & got into irons. When you push on the boom, you are deflecting the sail slightly out of irons. The wind now works against the sail, & the load is transferred through your arms, to your feet. The push on your feet starts to turn the hulls. If you have ever windsurfed you know that you can turn the board completely around by this method.
You are also drifting backwards, & moving the rudders creates a steering angle that assists in turning the hulls. The first time I ever sailed a Hobie 16, I couldn't make it tack, & ended up backing it around, via the rudders.
Don't be afraid to sail the boat sans jib when starting out, but do limit the strength of wind. As the wind gets stronger, everything becomes harder. The jib certainly balances things better, & by not releasing it till the bows are well through the wind,(backwinding it) it will pull the bows around. However, if you feel that a simplified rig is neccessary, the boat can be easily sailed in light/moderate winds under main only. When first starting out, I really wanted to sail, on a day that was to windy for my skill level. I went out under jib alone, just to see how it would handle. Very simple to sail, & I probably did 10 mph.
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Posted: Jul 25, 2011 - 10:32 AM
Don't worry about it, we've all been there.
Any boat that is meant to be sailed with a jib is going to be much more difficult to tack without the jib. The Phoenix being an older design has lower aspect sails and a large jib, so the jib is even more important. I've never had much luck sailing a Hobie 18 without it's jib and it is a comparatively more modern rig, but still depends on a large jib.
The only thing that's going to solve your teething problems is "Time on the boat".
Don't get discouraged and keep us updated with your progress, I'm counting on you to be the resident Phoenix 18 expert around here.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: Jul 25, 2011 - 01:26 PM
Ha - My first experience sailing my H18 uni was this weekend. I had one of my jib-sheet pigtails part in the middle of a race. Furled the jib and sailed uni on port tack and unfurled it for starboard. Needless to say my first tack without the jib was totally blown.
Anyway, hang in there. We've all made the same mistakes dozens of times. Problem for me is I still do it far too often
.
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Jeff R
'88 H18 "Jolly Mon"
'10 C2 USA1193
NE IN / SE MI
cramsailing.com
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Posted: Jul 25, 2011 - 06:30 PM
so it was a big part being UNI then. I got looking and thinking the outhaul was too tight, not enough draft,
too high a gear etc etc. OK guys, that damned JIB is up from now on. She really goes well on a beam or broad reach too, very forgiving and quick.
thanks guys, Lake Ontario had me for a few hours, but we re pulling back together! I posted the last pic took 20 minutes before launching my first UNI-stake under Member pics, if u want a laugh :P
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D Johns
Phoenix 18 KC#126
Port Hope Ontario
"If I put 2 Spinnakers on it, will it go faster?"
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Posted: Jul 25, 2011 - 06:45 PM
That, and first time on the boat, and possibly "sea state", and don't forget to always blame blown tacks on the crew.
Seriously though, remember that even if it appears that you just "can't" tack, don't panic you can still get back home by "jibing around", just go downwind and gather speed untill you can jibe around onto the needed tack. It will be slow going if you have to do it a lot to get up wind, but you will get home.
The other comments about "backing into the tack" when in irons are good advice, but you'll need to practice to get the feel for that.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: Jul 25, 2011 - 06:46 PM
even with a jib you can still get stuck in irons when the wind is high, as well as 1 day you could blow a jib sheet/block etc
so you should practice backing out
release traveller and main-sheet, and push both boom and tiller in the direction to want to sail, hold until there and slowly bring them back in
Edited by erice on Jul 25, 2011 - 06:46 PM. -
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Posted: Jul 25, 2011 - 07:09 PM
I've been caught in the irons quite a few times and yeah it sucks. I agree, best to have the jib sheet on a jib balanced boat as my H18 uses a jib to help ... and speed always helps to tack. If you could lean your mast forward then you would have more control but thats just for wind surfers...so the jib sheet will do the job.
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Mike Jenkins
1989 H18
Lexington, SC
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Posted: Jul 25, 2011 - 07:36 PM
Will do guys! Thanks for the tips,...we re back on the horse.
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D Johns
Phoenix 18 KC#126
Port Hope Ontario
"If I put 2 Spinnakers on it, will it go faster?"
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Posted: Jul 25, 2011 - 08:07 PM
I am amazed.
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Nacra 5.2
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Posted: Jul 25, 2011 - 08:22 PM
at? :)
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D Johns
Phoenix 18 KC#126
Port Hope Ontario
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Posted: Jul 25, 2011 - 09:40 PM
push push, pull pull or the fact someone made a thread about being in irons? -
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Posted: Jul 26, 2011 - 07:24 AM
Agree! Releasing the traveler and/or the mainsheet during the tack is the key. Guys here helped me with that; no missed tacks/irons on my last sail. Never had to release these on my big monohull, as it had enough momentum to make it through. Before learning this tool, when I was been stuck in irons, I made the discovery that a lightweight catamaran actually can go backwards- unheard of with my big monohull. Even thought about buying one of those backup - beep-beep alarms for such an occasion. My instinct of holding the tiller (monohull mentality) to encourage boat to complete the missed tack only helped keep me in the irons- had to reverse the tiller position to allow the reversing boat turn away from the wind. Now that I learned about blowing the mainsheet, no more reversing for me. Theses catamarans are a weird breed of boats, but MAN are they fun when up to speed!
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Eric C
Force 5 project boat
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1980 Nacra 5.2
"Double Vision"
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Posted: Jul 26, 2011 - 11:02 AM
I can relate to the monohull mentality. My Columbia was a lead keel boat. Once it got moving it was going to go a ways before it stopped. Made it easier to get through a turn. Also got it through some spoil areas in Galveston Bay. You would feel a shudder, then see black muck in your wake. I have to get back to the knowledge that boat, riging, and crew don't weigh anything near what that lead ballast did. Does make it a lot easier to stop if you need to. Turn into irons and she will pull right up.
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Mike Brady
Sugar Land, TX
Sailing off Magnolia Beach in Lavaca Bay TX
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P16 "Pooh Cat"
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Posted: Aug 04, 2011 - 11:43 PM
First day out on my 16 we sailed without the jib. Now I hadn't sailed for 20 years or so and it had been on monohulls only. With a stiff breeze we tacked into irons almost every time. The first day was tough, figured out the reverse rudder thing on the fly out there. The backing up of the cat was something I hadn't experienced either. We moved quick that way. What a pain it was. I Believe I made 2 good tacks out of a million...Jib please.
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The Bone
H16
Mass / NH
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