Hi: Why is it that is extremely dificult to go downwind on a Hobie Tiger. Are there any secrets?
Is this a very sensible boat? I dont know why im so slow going downwind.
Help please.
Hobie Tiger going downwind
-
- Rank: Lubber
- Registered: Jan 12, 2005
- Last visit: Jun 13, 2011
- Posts: 7
Posted: Jun 07, 2011 - 05:21 PM
-
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Feb 25, 2007
- Last visit: Jul 13, 2012
- Posts: 414
Posted: Jun 07, 2011 - 06:05 PM
Cats don't like to run before the wind. Start on a beam reach and get your speed up, turn down wind till you are on a borad reach to real wind. Your wind indicator on the boat should be at 90deg. to the boat. If the boat slows down head back up a little to get the speed back up. Traveler should be set just a few inches inside the leeward hull. You have to watch the tell tails on the sails and make them flow. Sail a course down wind just like tacking up wind. Get a good book on cat sailing like this one. http://www.amazon.com/Cat…Rick-White/dp/1880871009
from Sailing USA
From
Edited by skarr1 on Jun 07, 2011 - 07:09 PM. -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Nov 02, 2004
- Last visit: Aug 07, 2023
- Posts: 626
Posted: Jun 07, 2011 - 06:44 PM
Spin or no spin? Sailing a tiger or any F18 downwind without the spin is slow unless it is above 15 mph.
--
Ron
Nacra F18
Reservoir Sailing Assn.
Brandon, Mississippi
-- -
- Rank: Chief
- Registered: Jun 24, 2009
- Last visit: Jun 15, 2023
- Posts: 1555
Posted: Jun 07, 2011 - 08:54 PM
Yeah, get the Rick White boat it will help quite a bit with downwind speed. A tiger is an awesomely fast cat under most circumstances (should blow the doors off of almost anything else out there). However, without a spinnaker all cats are slow downwind beyond the broad reach (pictured above).
There are 2 basic tricks to improve boat speed. First get on a broad reach (about 135 degrees off the wind) and keep an eye on your wind vane and steer so it is at a right angle to the boat. As you pick up speed the wind vane will show the wind pointing further back on the boat. This is called building the apparent wind, the apparent wind direction being the sum of the true wind speed and your forward boat speed. Anyway when you this happens you can steer deeper downwind to bring with wind vane back to a right angle to the boat and ride the apparent wind. Careful though if you steer too deep you lose speed and if the wind drops off any you have to steer back upwind a bit to build up speed again. It's a constant adjustment thing.
The second is a technique called the wild thing and is used with the apparent wind technique above. This is when you are sailing down wind and you put the crew on the leeward side of the boat to raise with windward side out of the water and half the total drag. This give you an instant speed advantage. It makes you go much faster but it's a balancing act that could cause you to flip it if you aren't careful and requires even more constant adjustments.
Lastly if you add a spin (I'm assuming you aren't using one because you are going slow downwind) you use the same techniques as above except you are more likely to be double trapped off the back of the hulls to keep the boat down and the bows up. The spin adds so much sail area that you are likely to go faster downwind than upwind. All is explained in minute detail in the book.
Dave.
--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
-- -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Aug 22, 2007
- Last visit: Jan 07, 2015
- Posts: 742
Posted: Jun 07, 2011 - 09:27 PM
I love flying a hull downwind on the 5.5. just like any boat, the more perpendicular you are to the wind, the more you'll fly a hull.
So jibe, set the sails appropriately (read: out) and point up until you get wind, and as soon as you can get a hull up start riding that back down. Even though (for me) it's not a 'trapped out' situation, it's just as fun, as it is extremely manageable.
Picture the Oracle AC boat slowly pointing up and down to manage the flying ama as it rode downhill. I dont know, but I'd imaging that a Tiger without the spin wouldn't be too hard. Just don't expect to go too deep.
--
Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
-- -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Apr 27, 2011
- Last visit: Dec 13, 2022
- Posts: 163
Posted: Jun 08, 2011 - 09:48 AM
I'm no expert, but I'd guess a Tiger without a spinnaker downwind would be a lot like my H18 (perhaps even slower since there is less sail area?). One thing I've learned for sure, even when using the apparent wind techniques mentioned above, the H18 is not fast unless the wind is up. I've participated in a few CRAM events here in MI, and in lighter air, watching the F18's fly down the course with there spinnakers makes me totally envious...
So, to sum it all up, don't expect much in light air or without a spinnaker.
--
Jeff R
'88 H18 "Jolly Mon"
'10 C2 USA1193
NE IN / SE MI
cramsailing.com
-- -
- Rank: Lubber
- Registered: Jan 12, 2005
- Last visit: Jun 13, 2011
- Posts: 7
Posted: Jun 08, 2011 - 05:22 PM
Sorry but im talking with spinnaker. All tigers are equiped with one, the problem is how
to make it go fast going downwind -
- Rank: Chief
- Registered: Jun 24, 2009
- Last visit: Jun 15, 2023
- Posts: 1555
Posted: Jun 08, 2011 - 06:19 PM
Should go like a bat out of hell downwind with a spin!! Likely you are sailing too deep. You have to remember that a catamaran asymmetric spinnaker (called a gennaker) isn't meant to go directly downwind, you have to sail it somewhere between 100 degrees off the wind to about 140 degrees. Going lower will cause you to lose significant power.
Other than that the advice provided above will help, except never put your crew on the lee side while flying the spin. You shouldn't need to.
Regards,
Dave
--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
-- -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Feb 19, 2008
- Last visit: Aug 26, 2023
- Posts: 671
Posted: Jun 09, 2011 - 12:49 AM
to help us to help you
a) how long have you been sailing cats?
b) what downwind angles are you sailing?
c) what speeds do you think you are getting and in what wind speeds?
d) what are you slow compared too?, a laser, an opti, a hobie16, other f18? -
- Rank: Lubber
- Registered: Jan 12, 2005
- Last visit: Jun 13, 2011
- Posts: 7
Posted: Jun 13, 2011 - 10:35 AM
Ive been sailing about 11 years in cats
Wind perpendicular to boat, considering aparent wind.
Always slower than other Tigers.
Im slow compared to same boats.
I can tell that really dont know whats happening. Perhapd its the crew position on the boat, bad tunning, spi too tight,
sailing closer to the wind than other boats to make one hull fly, etc, etc -
- Rank: Administrator
- Registered: Jul 19, 2001
- Last visit: Apr 01, 2024
- Posts: 3428
Posted: Jun 13, 2011 - 11:45 AM
Do you have the same age and version of Tiger sails as your competitors?
How much do you and your crew weigh compared to the other crews?
Extra weight or bad sails will slow you down, it doesn't take much percentage differance to feel like you are really slow.
The F18 class has two sizes of jibs, are you using the right one?
--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
How To Create Your Signature
How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar
How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
-- -
- Rank: Master Chief
- Registered: Jun 20, 2006
- Last visit: Apr 06, 2024
- Posts: 7088
Posted: Jun 14, 2011 - 10:08 AM
Depends on your tech, sometimes launching and dousing the spin takes more time that would be gained if you didn't.. lots of variables here.. but in General.. yes you should go much faster downwind with a chute out
Depends on the cut of the spin. My Tornado spin is an older design with a wide top.. and does go VERY deep. I can beat up on modern spins if the course is very deep... however i get beat up when there is some reaching involved (against newer / flatter sail plans)
Depends on the wind. if its very low... and you want to beat another boat... get that windward / high side hull up... even if it means doing the wild thing (sitting on the low /lee side)
Edited by MN3 on Jun 14, 2011 - 10:09 AM. -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: May 30, 2007
- Last visit: Jun 28, 2011
- Posts: 101
Posted: Jun 14, 2011 - 10:12 AM
The best advice i know to give is to tell you to go find another local faster tiger and go for a sail with them or take them out on your boat. There are way too many variables here -
- Rank: Administrator
- Registered: Jul 19, 2001
- Last visit: Apr 01, 2024
- Posts: 3428
Posted: Jun 14, 2011 - 11:34 AM
Amen, +1 etc.
--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
How To Create Your Signature
How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar
How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--
Users on-line
This list is based on users active over the last 60 minutes.