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Switching to 8:1; boom attachment??  Bottom

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  • Posted this on Hobie.com and FB, but got nothing specific, so....

    Switching from the standard, 6:1 to an 8:1 on my H21SE. Stock, it has 2 attachment points on the boom for 2 2-sheave blocks. The 8:1 I have has the 4-way sheave on top of the traveler, which is mighty inconvenient. I want to move the 4-way to the boom, which means a single attachment point; probably the outboard one, ala every other beachcat out there with said device.

    Downsides to this on the hobie? Can the single stainless strap take the load at the single point, or was Hobie just trying to make things easier/cheaper for the user with the 2 blocks? I noticed like Nacra I-20's sort of strap the block to the boom and clew of the main, which is an interesting strategy...

    Going to set up and switch it over this weekend. Thanks for the advice -

    --
    Chuck C.
    H21SE 408
    --
  • i have upgraded my blocks on most of my cats
    h18 i went from stock to a harken 7:1 rachomatic then to an 8:1
    on my mystere i went from a 8:1 to 9 and occasionally a 10:1 (via dyneema stropes)

    all with no issue.
    currently my boats i added a dynema strope to spread the load (actually to get the blocks directly above the beam)
    https://www.thebeachcats.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=127659&g2_serialNumber=3&g2_GALLERYSID=7ac8650f674bb06170090e742038b1ff

    don't need much more than this:
    https://www.thebeachcats.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=133587&g2_serialNumber=3



    Edited by MN3 on Aug 20, 2020 - 02:54 PM.
  • It's not the bail but how the bail is attached. Presumably Hobie spread the blocks apart so as to spread the load apart. You lose some power by having the blocks apart. If you use one of the two existing bails use the one further aft. If the bail is too far forward it will take more sheeting effort to get the mainsheet tension you need. If you are going to relocate the bail your best place would probably be just aft of a spot over the traveler. I assume the main is loose footed. If it is, you could experiment by just tying the block on.

    --
    Bill Townsend
    G-Cat 5.7
    Sarasota
    --
  • Loose-footed - yes. I can't think of a beachcat that isn't, now that you bring that up...

    Ahh, thanks! Yeah, was considering the aft bail/strap which is held on with 4 rivets: 2 on each side. It's stamped stainless, bent and relieved.

    MN3 - PERFECT photo! That's what I was talking about. The Hobie boom is a rectangular cross section and the outhaul car inside the boom takes up some space towards the end of it. With my current EP made sail, it seemed as if I couldn't get enough outhaul on it before it would run into the stop (I think). Adding a soft shackle/strope at the end makes sense and gets the block out farther on the boom, improving leverage of the main sheet.

    Not much experience with soft shackles - no problems with them coming undone, huh? I never hear about that happening either...

    Thanks again.

    --
    Chuck C.
    H21SE 408
    --
  • Quote Not much experience with soft shackles - no problems with them coming undone, huh? I never hear about that happening either...

    if they are made and used correctly they are safe to use
  • There was no such thing as a quad block back when the 21 came out. The most you could get was a triple. That’s why Hobie needed two bales on the boom with two double blocks each.

    Take the forward bale off and mount it back behind the existing aft bale so the bottom angles forward and butts against/meshes with the existing aft bale. Then run your shackle through both bales for added strength.

    sm
  • charlescarlisLoose-footed - yes. I can't think of a beachcat that isn't, now that you bring that up...

    The Hobie 16.

    You will have no issue just using the aft bale on your boom.
    It and your boom are plenty strong.

    --
    Sheet In!
    Bob
    _/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
    Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
    Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
    AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
    (Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
    Arizona, USA
    --
  • You know, I never studied a 16, embarrassingly. And been around a TON of them. Powers of observation; lacking...

    icon_smile

    --
    Chuck C.
    H21SE 408
    --
  • klozhaldYou will have no issue just using the aft bale on your boom.
    It and your boom are plenty strong.


    The H21 uses the same boom extrusion and boom bales as the H18. I have cracked a boom bale on my H18 in the past, which is why I would recommend moving the forward bale back and doubling up the aft bale if only using a single attachment point. It is a simple matter of drilling out and re-installing four rivets - cheap insurance. As an alternative, you can take a piece of high strength line and loop it around the boom and through the shackle for the top block to act as a safety line in case the bale breaks. I have done that as well. Better than having the thing let go at a bad time.

    sm



    Edited by Dogboy on Aug 21, 2020 - 07:27 AM.
  • I'll re-orient the "bale"; didn't know what to call that piece - now I do. Got good at taking out and re-setting rivets... Plus, I have a second boom, so that's easy enough if things go south; I doubt they would, though. Alternatively, I was thinking of splicing a line into a loop or soft shackle to go around both bales, but that moves the block forward and I increase clearance between blocks and maintain a single point of failure there.

    Thanks for the tips.

    --
    Chuck C.
    H21SE 408
    --
  • Another point on the bales. My P19 is configurable for island trips and has a Cheeta motor mount bracket. In the up position, the motor was interfering with the blocks on tacks/gybes. So I installed a 2nd boom hanger further forward to solve the problem. That induced a second problem: Mast de-rotation, especially in lighter air. So the rear hanger is the way to go, if you have the option. It keeps forward pressure on the gooseneck.

    Also, I just upgraded to a Harken 12:1. Used it in the tri-point race and have one issue with a captive fairlead preventing just a small portion of line from leaving the cam cleat. So I really have to snap the line down to get it fully out of the cleat. Another issue may be sailing solo in moderate air, where it may not sheet out as quick as I need it to. I've been experimenting with using the traveller in gusts. That's supposed to be the way to go, but it just feels weird.

    Finally, good information on using a loop of dyneema for safety. I had not thought of blowing out the boom hanger but I now suppose that is a possibility with the 12:1.

    --
    Bill Mattson
    Prindle 19 "Gelli Bean"
    Prindle 19 "Cat's Pajamas"
    --
  • QuoteAlso, I just upgraded to a Harken 12:1. Used it in the tri-point race

    on a beach cat? great googly moogly - you must have 80000' of sheet on your tramp when closehauled


    QuoteSo I really have to snap the line down to get it fully out of the cleat. Another issue may be sailing solo in moderate air, where it may not sheet out as quick as I need it to.

    Sheeting angles with main cleats are always a tough one for me. On deck vs on wire vs on wing and or on wire on wing .... grrrrr
  • MN3
    QuoteAlso, I just upgraded to a Harken 12:1. Used it in the tri-point race

    on a beach cat? great googly moogly - you must have 80000' of sheet on your tramp when closehauled

    If memory serves, it's over 40 ft.

    QuoteSo I really have to snap the line down to get it fully out of the cleat. Another issue may be sailing solo in moderate air, where it may not sheet out as quick as I need it to.

    Sheeting angles with main cleats are always a tough one for me. On deck vs on wire vs on wing and or on wire on wing .... grrrrr


    The sheeting angle is fine. Its a fairlead that prevents me from getting it out of the cleat without a really hard snap. Here's the product page from Murrays. You can just see it in the picture to the left.

    https://www.murrays.com/product/28-121/

    --
    Bill Mattson
    Prindle 19 "Gelli Bean"
    Prindle 19 "Cat's Pajamas"
    --
  • gotcha - yes that looks troublesome
  • I had 12:1 on my 21SE with a squaretop. It is a lot of line to deal with, but don’t know how you sheet in a 7 or 8:1 when powered up. I had an extended spacer above the cleat to help with the issue with releasing the line from the cleat. Wish I could attach a picture here.

    --
    Scott,
    ‘92 H18 w/SX wings
    ‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
    --
  • Scott you can email me at asn 1987 at aol dotco m and i will attach
  • There appears to be only one photo in existence on the internet, and that is at Murrays. I've cropped and resized the area that is my issue.

    http://www.catsail.com/crap/12-1-fairlead.jpg

    The issue is that fairlead "hoop" that inhibits the line from fully disengaging from the blocks. And it is somehow embedded into the plastic, so it can't just be removed. I would have to remove the entire part under and over the cleat, then fabricate a spacer.

    It's odd that there is this problem. The line spec for the blocks is 3/8, but the line in the photo looks smaller. I don't think I can handle anything smaller than 3/8 on my hands.

    Also interesting... I searched high and low and found NO reeving diagrams for these blocks. Not even on Harken's website. I got clues from the photo at Murrays, then messed around for 2 hours until I got it right.

    In researching this morning, I'm finding folks with 10:1 blocks using "line tapering" for less friction, which solves the other issue I have where the mainsheet may not sheet out fast enough when solo sailing.



    Edited by mattson on Aug 24, 2020 - 11:25 AM.

    --
    Bill Mattson
    Prindle 19 "Gelli Bean"
    Prindle 19 "Cat's Pajamas"
    --
  • QuoteAlso interesting... I searched high and low and found NO reeving diagrams for these blocks. Not even on Harken's website. I got clues from the photo at Murrays, then messed around for 2 hours until I got it right.

    that stinks. i would call them - they have been fantastic with support for me over the years

    QuoteIn researching this morning, I'm finding folks with 10:1 blocks using "line tapering" for less friction, which solves the other issue I have where the mainsheet may not sheet out fast enough when solo sailing.

    +1



    Edited by MN3 on Aug 24, 2020 - 11:54 AM.
  • I just send MN3 my pictures. Glad to hear you got them reeved, sorry to hear it took so long. My friend who bought my 12:1 originally had hand sketches from someone at Harken that he worked with to figure it out.

    --
    Scott,
    ‘92 H18 w/SX wings
    ‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
    --
  • https://www.thebeachcats.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=133634&g2_serialNumber=3



    https://www.thebeachcats.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=133635&g2_serialNumber=3

    looks to me you could remove that entire cleat assembly and replace with a stock cleat. use some nylon washers or composite ones and build up a fairlead with an eyestrap and avoid all those issues

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