Sailing in colder conditions :: Catamaran Sailboats at TheBeachcats.com

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Sailing in colder conditions

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m.h.m.

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Jan 11, 2018

Last visit: Jan 12, 2018

Posts: 3
Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 05:32 PM

Hey everybody!

So i am about to get my first catamaran (Nacra F16) and was wondering what to wear if i wanted to go sailing in the time of year where the water temperatures are about 10-20 degrees celsius (50-68 F). Until now i was only sailing in warmer conditions and my cheap 3/2 wetsuit with short arms and long legs isnt going to be the best option. So would you guys recommend getting a thicker one with long slevees (and if yes: any recommondations ?) or a different setup ?
Thanks for your help and greetings from Austria!
Max
tiberiusgv

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Apr 17, 2015

Last visit: Jun 12, 2018

Posts: 11
Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 11:25 PM

Those kind of temperatures are a lot like sailing around Michigan. I lovey Zhik super-warm. I have the overall style with a separate jacket. This gives you a lot of flexibility to either just wear the overalls or wear them with the wetsuit jacket. If it's any warmer I'm in just my swimsuit. Any colder and I'm in a dry suit.
dmgbear55

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jun 22, 2015

Last visit: Jul 06, 2018

Posts: 258
Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 12:36 AM

If you go to a drysuit you won't care much how cold it gets. It is what you wear under the drysuit that keeps you warm. So fleece clothing is perfect in layers. You would be able to tolerate very long periods of time actually in the water and there is no significant effect of windchill on your body. Still big issues with your hands and head. They are bulky and expensive, but they allow you to play nearly year round. Check with your whitewater kayak friends for local sources. These are the same kind of suits as those guys wear to play in the rivers.

--
dg
NACRA 5.2 #400
This End Up
Original owner since 1975
--
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: Apr 06, 2024

Posts: 7088
Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 10:36 AM

When the waters get in the 50's and 60's and the air is chili i wear a bib dry suit from Kokata

Not too expensive, and works well
the gortex version is much better and 2x the cost

this bib has an elastic wasteband to curl into a dry top or spray top
the zipper is nice to vent on a sunny day (these can get over hot and sweaty fast) - but zipper should be closed at all times while sailing

https://www.outdoorplay.c…t1gPpEAQYAiABEgJSqvD_BwE

I was able to find a dealer local (tackle shack) and have a set made to my specs at no additional cost
olliehunt

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Jan 11, 2018

Last visit: Jan 29, 2018

Posts: 14
Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 11:03 AM

MN3When the waters get in the 50's and 60's and the air is chili i wear a bib dry suit from Kokata

Not too expensive, and works well
the gortex version is much better and 2x the cost

this bib has an elastic wasteband to curl into a dry top or spray top
the zipper is nice to vent on a sunny day (these can get over hot and sweaty fast) - but zipper should be closed at all times while sailing

https://www.outdoorplay.c…t1gPpEAQYAiABEgJSqvD_BwE

I was able to find a dealer local (tackle shack) and have a set made to my specs at no additional cost

I may have to keep this in mind. Thanks!
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: Apr 06, 2024

Posts: 7088
Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 11:28 AM

olliehuntI may have to keep this in mind. Thanks!
lakewateree

Rank: Mate

Registered: Oct 31, 2010

Last visit: Jan 27, 2022

Posts: 194
Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 11:49 AM

+1 on those dry bibs. I have the same thing, picked them up on ebay in like new condition. Spend the money to get the zipper, life saver if you have to tinkle

--
Mac
Midlands South Carolina
AHPC Viper USA 366
A Cat USA 366
Super Cat 17
--
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: Apr 06, 2024

Posts: 7088
Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 12:10 PM

sailing in fl we can sail year round but it gets cold
water is lower 50's now and gonna get worse

some lessons I learned about cool weather sailing (ymmv)

do NOT wear cheap "jogging" pants (nylon) - they are SLICK and can slide you off your boat in a tack or when you heel
do NOT wear fleece under a spray top - if you fall off it will now weigh 4000 lbs and make getting back on your boat very hard and if its under layers and not the top layer ... you now have to strip to get it off - not good in heavy seas

hands, head and feet determine the fun - if they are cold and miserable - so are you: I carry spare sets of dry gloves, a small towel, and i have some neoprene gloves with grip that work well too

Good booties are important - cheap ones will fail at a bad time
lakewateree

Rank: Mate

Registered: Oct 31, 2010

Last visit: Jan 27, 2022

Posts: 194
Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 12:53 PM

What kind of dry gloves do you use?

--
Mac
Midlands South Carolina
AHPC Viper USA 366
A Cat USA 366
Super Cat 17
--
m.h.m.

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Jan 11, 2018

Last visit: Jan 12, 2018

Posts: 3
Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 02:21 PM

So thanks for your help!
Is a drysuit the best solution or could i go with something like the superwarm zhik steamer, a spraytop, boots and gloves ? I would like to avoid buying a drysuit not only because of the price but mainly because it is bulky (and ugly )
dmgbear55

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jun 22, 2015

Last visit: Jul 06, 2018

Posts: 258
Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 02:52 PM

I think it depends on if you are actually going to end up in the water. If you are sailing aggressively and/or want to sail aggressively without fear then a full drysuit is the way to go. The difference between the bib arrangement shown above and a full drysuit is that your body is fully sealed inside a drysuit, so taking a flyer into cold water is not a big deal and your body stays dry. Drysuits are like wearing a spacesuit, you are totally protected against the cold environment. If you get tossed in the water wearing the bib and even with the matching jacket it is not a fully watertight arrangement, you will get wet and you will get cold and you may have fun getting back on the boat with flooded gear. The bib and jacket are great if you are very sure you won't go for a swim.

An old rule of thumb that has always worked for me is to remember that if the air temp and water temp in F don't add up to 100° then some kind of wetsuit/drysuit is required. As a cold water whitewater rafter we say it is all about the swim, not the ride. So dress for the swim, not the ride.

Here is a link to one source of these kinds drysuits. https://www.nrs.com/categ…72.2616/apparel/drysuits

Also really suggest trying one on before buying it. I'm a big guy and I had mine custom made so that I had a full range of movement for my arms. Anything that keeps you warm and safe can't be all that ugly

For sure get the "relief" zipper and remember to zip it shut after using it, really sucks to go swimming with that zipper open.

Edited by dmgbear55 on Jan 12, 2018 - 12:58 PM.

--
dg
NACRA 5.2 #400
This End Up
Original owner since 1975
--
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: Apr 06, 2024

Posts: 7088
Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 03:44 PM

lakewatereeWhat kind of dry gloves do you use?

If your talkin to me, they aren't dry

and
no brand label
They are imported
Italian i think : Madeinc hina

Edited by MN3 on Jan 12, 2018 - 03:53 PM.
m.h.m.

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Jan 11, 2018

Last visit: Jan 12, 2018

Posts: 3
Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 03:46 PM

dmgbear55I think it depends on if you are actually going to end up in the water. If you are sailing aggressively and/or want to sail aggressively without fear then a full drysuit is the way to go. The difference between the bib arrangement shown above and a full drysuit is that your body is fully sealed inside a drysuit, so taking a flyer into cold water is not a big deal and your body stays dry. Drysuits are like wearing a spacesuit, you are totally protected against the cold environment. If you get tossed in the water wearing the bib and even with the matching jacket it is not a fully watertight arrangement, you will get wet and you will get cold and you may have fun getting back on the boat with flooded gear. The bib and jacket are great if you are very sure you won't go for a swim.

An old rule of thumb that has always worked for me is to remember that if the air temp and water temp in F don't add up to 100° then some kind of wetsuit/drysuit is required. As a cold water whitewater rafter we say it is all about the swim, not the ride. So dress for the swim, not the ride.

Here is a link to one source of these kinds drysuits. https://www.nrs.com/categ…72.2616/apparel/drysuits

Also really suggest trying one on before buying it. I'm a big guy and I had mine custom made so that I had a full range of movement for my arms. Anything that keeps you warm and safe can't be all that ugly

For sure get the "relief" zipper and remember to zip it shut after using it, really sucks to go swimming with that zipper open.Edited by dmgbear55 on Jan 12, 2018 - 12:58 PM.

so what you are saying a drysuit is the way to go ? No chance wearing some kind of wetsuit with additional layers? Id like to get a wetsuit because i think its more versatile.
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: Apr 06, 2024

Posts: 7088
Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 03:52 PM

QuoteIs a drysuit the best solution or could i go with something like the superwarm zhik steamer, a spraytop, boots and gloves

sailing is similar to snow sports in a way
you start out cold but end up moving around a bunch and build up heat

for me
There is more "utility" in buying a bib and adding a spray top and/or dry top but more expense

a dry suit is great for sailing in cold conditions but not so good in between times
a bib can be easier to manage

gloves aren't part of this debate - you (I) need them either way

shoes:
booties are good for cold water not warm (buy a size up)
beach shoes can work over the built in socks (buy a size up) and are cheap but fall apart
daviskpjr

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Jul 28, 2014

Last visit: Jan 12, 2018

Posts: 13
Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 03:59 PM

I purchased my drysuit from Mythic Gear (https://www.mythicdrysuits.com/collections/drysuits)
Good quality at a reasonable price.

--
Kip
NACRA 5.8na
Chesapeake, VA
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tominpa

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jul 29, 2015

Last visit: Apr 24, 2024

Posts: 578
Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 06:11 PM

This is great stuff, and as soon as the surface isn't impenetrable and the fishing shanties are gone, I'm going to go shopping.

--
Tom
NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
Pennsylvania
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dmgbear55

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jun 22, 2015

Last visit: Jul 06, 2018

Posts: 258
Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 11:11 PM

Using the way back, way back machine here. I first started sailing on Puget Sound in Washington State during the winter months and we used neoprene wetsuits, typically made for diving. And we froze wearing them because of the evaporative effective of the water on the neoprene was greater than the warming of the neoprene and the work we were doing sailing. Then we made a breakthrough and started wearing cheap rain gear over the neoprene and we could sail all day until our armpits were raw from chafing. The wetsuits also saved your a........ when you went in the water. You would freeze initially as the water comes in, but slowly and surely in a well fitting wetsuit you will warm back up and for sure you are going to be able to rescue yourself.

The thing to sort out in your own mind is if there is a chance you are going into the water. If the chance is zero because you are a really good under control and conservative sailor, then you have several options to consider. But if there is even a small chance to go into cold water you have to have either have a well fitting neoprene type wetsuit, or a full drysuit. In my drysuit I can tolerate 20 to 30 minutes in the water pretty easily and have a good story to tell afterward and I would get back on the boat and just keep going. In a full neoprene suit I think 10 minutes in the water and then a very uncomfortable trip back to wherever you started. But you would get there.

In the bib arrangement I think you would be in big trouble if you actually went into the water. You would have cold water pretty freely circulating through the suit. It has no insulating value (unlike neoprene) when you are in the water and then the thing that would really concern me is trying to get back on a boat with a load of water in your bib and pants. This bib arrangement can be well sealed for the splashing of cat sailing, but unless there is something that actually seals at your chest or waist like a gasket, this could be dangerous.

I don't sail the cat in the winter anymore, but I do whitewater raft in the winter and spring. The chances of swimming from the raft are pretty rare, but once it has happened to you, you will never complain about your drysuit ever again. But after wearing one on a warmer day you will however find the money for the good gore tex suits. They are worth every penny.

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dg
NACRA 5.2 #400
This End Up
Original owner since 1975
--
ec

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Feb 28, 2017

Last visit: Jun 20, 2018

Posts: 90
Posted: Jan 13, 2018 - 12:05 AM

I have a dry suit it is a dui suit I bought for dreading gold a few years ago. It needs some repairing, the neck seals need to be replaced. It fits a 210 pound person. I am 210 at 6 foot 2 in just to say and it fits me perfect. I would sell it for about 300.00. If anyone interested. I have not tried to sell it anywhere else.

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Tom Bainbridge, Ga. Hobie16, prindle 18.2
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dmgbear55

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jun 22, 2015

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Posts: 258
Posted: Jan 13, 2018 - 01:27 AM

The neck seals, wrist gaskets and booties are all wear items and need to be replaced from time to time on drysuits. There are shops that do this kind of work, some suppliers like Kokatat will rework the suits, or if you know what you are doing you can buy these bits and do it yourself. Neck gaskets are always trim to fit for the person wearing it. So it would likely need to be replaced even if it were in good condition. These basic suits last a long time when taken care of.

--
dg
NACRA 5.2 #400
This End Up
Original owner since 1975
--
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: Apr 06, 2024

Posts: 7088
Posted: Jan 13, 2018 - 10:09 AM

QuoteIn the bib arrangement I think you would be in big trouble if you actually went into the water. You would have cold water pretty freely circulating through the suit. It has no insulating value (unlike neoprene) when you are in the water and then the thing that would really concern me is trying to get back on a boat with a load of water in your bib and pants. This bib arrangement can be well sealed for the splashing of cat sailing, but unless there is something that actually seals at your chest or waist like a gasket, this could be dangerous.

The one i showed does in fact seal the bottoms via the elastic wasteland

when you go in the pressure pushes the drysuit against your skin and the elastic wasteland work perfect in keeping you dry

I guess if you fell in, with no top on at all and stuck your hand into the bib to scratch or adjust ... you could get water in there ... but you'd have to be pretty drunk to be stupid enought to try and stick your hand down your pants while your floating (but who knows)

+1 on the gortex if you can afford it