• dmgbear55
  
  

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  Posted: Aug 30, 2017 - 11:19 PM

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  In addition, boats greater than 16 feet in length must carry a Coast Guard-approved throwable device (Type IV).

  
  
  I have to admit that I haven't carried a throwable device ever. But it does make sense to carry one.
  
  

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  This is the throwable bag I got this year. It is small, has 75 feet of rope and can throw it about 50 feet. The bag has a float in it so it is easy to see in the water. Rope is bright yellow and floats. Keep it in the trap bag and will let it out behind boat if capsize and can assist to retrieve crew or skipper if there is a man overboard. Available through NRS (kayaking) website. Price is $59.95 but they frequently go on sale.

  
  
  I have this same NRS throwable bag from my rafting gear and may start including it in the onboard kit. While it will not qualify as the Type IV device, it is actually massively more useful in our situation. Depending on which throw bag you purchase you can get some extremely high strength line in the package which is more useful for all kinds of things besides just a throw line. Like for getting a tow when the shipment of air in the truck doesn't show up on time.
  
  I have had onboard inspections several times aboard This End Up and the local officer past up on the Type IV throwable and were really only interested that we were wearing appropriate life jackets. I have had them pester me on the whitewater raft for the Type IV thing and I have just subtracted the 3" from the actual length of my raft and told them the rafts are 15' 11".(they are actually 16' 2"). A big cushion might be justified on a light air day, but for our purposes they are really just in the way. The throw line on the other hand is massively useful, so if they ever ask I guess I will have to say that my 5.2 is only 15' 11" long (for sure they are not going to have a measuring tape).
  
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  dg
  NACRA 5.2 #400
  This End Up
  Original owner since 1975
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• southstars2012
  
  

  • Rank: Lubber
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  Posted: Aug 31, 2017 - 01:34 AM

  I second the throw rope/bag, less so the Type IV throwable cushion. We had both for R2AK 2017 on the Nacra I20 since we were coastal/offshore and needed to comply with USCG and Canada regs. The Type IV throwable we mostly just sat on (or used as a pillow while sleeping) - no rope tied to it. Kind of a waste of space except for the extra comfort!
  
  The throw rope/bag got tested in anger only once (in San Fran Bay) when I separated from my partner after a capsize. Like an idiot I hadn't attached it to the boat, so I threw the rope perfectly on-target, and then promptly let go of the boat-end and lost the whole thing overboard. Don't make that rookie mistake -- whatever you do, always have the boat-end pre-attached to the boat!
  
  We also let the rope trail astern during capsizes, in case we had difficulty getting back on board and the boat started sailing away. But we never really had to rely on the rope in those cases (we found better ways to not get separated in the first place -- more on that in the capsize thread).
  
  Small details not to overlook:
  - You want the bag easily accessible and tied to the boat - preferably aft in my opinion (to the footstraps in our case, near the rear beam)
  - You want the bag to be easy to pick up and throw (no knots to untie)
  - But you don't want the bag to just go overboard on its own (it needs to be clipped)
  
  I personally liked this cheap throw bag from Ebay, with a simple white buckle clip that you can keep clipped to the boat and then unclip in 1 sec to lift the bag and throw it. Ebay link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/K…t-Long-Rope/361539682870 (not affiliated to me). I can't tell if the NRS bag has a similar clip - when choosing bags I decided to avoid any bag that didn't have an easy-release clip.
  
  You can see our setup (orange throw bag by rear-beam) at 0:47 on this video: https://www.facebook.com/…/videos/1907844712794114
  
  
  
  Edited by southstars2012 on Aug 31, 2017 - 01:38 AM.
  
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  SL
  Nacra Inter 20 (sold)
  2017 Race to Alaska "Team Ketch me if u can"
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  Sausalito CA
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• MN3
  
  

  • Rank: Master Chief
  • Registered: Jun 20, 2006
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  Posted: Aug 31, 2017 - 09:42 AM

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  high strength line in the package which is more useful for all kinds of things besides just a throw line. Like for getting a tow when the shipment of air in the truck doesn't show up on time.

  
  haha!
  
  I would personally be real careful not to get a tow with any line i wasn't VERY sure of. If the line can't take the force of the tow (and lots of powerboats really know nothing about how to tow) - it can snap back and take out your eye, or remove an ear.... (on big boats, a whipping (snapped) deck line can take off your leg, or head) - so a line that is meant to pull a 170 lbs person floating in the water may not respond so well to a 1000lb of boat and people being stretched and pulled by a 175hp engine
  
  (just another great reason to carry an anchor ... if you have a bridal setup for it, you are already rigged for a tow)
  
  
  i see the utility in both types
  the cushion can be attached to a line for throwing, can be good as a seat, headrest, pillow and .... has enough buoyancy to actually keep someone afloat - but is a little bulky for smaller decks
  
  the throw bag is much more compact and can also be useful as a drag line behind a capsized boat but has really no flotation aid to the person in the water.
  
  thanks for all the input - this thread has turned into a good thought-stoker and who knows, may help save a life someday
  
  and as a side note: i have never heard of any beach-catamaraner ever ticketed or even pulled over for a gear check in my area. most catsailors around here don't wear pdf's unless its 20knots or more (i wear mine unless it's 2knots or less)
  
  
  
  Edited by MN3 on Aug 31, 2017 - 09:51 AM.

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• dmgbear55
  
  

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  Posted: Aug 31, 2017 - 11:50 AM

  The NRS throw bag does have a small float in the bottom of the bag to keep the bag from sinking. These things generally all have fairly high strength line in them and some have Spectra line, so even higher strength. As for people sailing cats without PFD's, I'm of the opinion that Darwin's theory should take effect.
  
  On a raft we would never fix the line to the boat for a lot of very good reasons, but on a cat those reasons don't seem to necessarily apply. The throw bags that I have seen all have a strap with a snap buckle to easily attach the bag to the boat (for carrying the bag and keeping it with the boat). I can see the value of clipping the line to the cat and dropping the bag over in a capsize. If the boat gets away in the righting process you would have a chance at grabbing this line at which point you will have to make a decision as to what you are going to do next. There is a risk here that has to be considered and that is getting entrapped by the line and maybe that has to be considered when deciding whether or not to attach the tag end to the boat or not. IF the boat continues to move, even slowly and you somehow get tangled in this line it could present a serious problem. It may be that a biner that can be quickly clipped in may be an answer based on the condition you are faced with, but leaving the line generally unattached would might be preferable. Not a perfect solution either way.
  
  One of the cool things about a throw bag is that you don't have to reload the line into the bag to throw the next time when you miss. Simply dip the bag in the water and fill it a bit and then throw again and again until you finally get the line where it is needed. Rafters practice throwing these things often because on a river time is of the essence and the sooner you get the bag where it is needed the better.
  
  --
  dg
  NACRA 5.2 #400
  This End Up
  Original owner since 1975
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• spoulton
  
  

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  Posted: Aug 31, 2017 - 04:46 PM

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  I can't tell if the NRS bag has a similar clip - when choosing bags I decided to avoid any bag that didn't have an easy-release clip.

  
  The NRS bag does have a clip to prevent rope from deploying and to allow a quick release.
  
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  Scott
  ARC 21
  Prindle 18
  Annapolis, Maryland
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• nohuhu
  
  

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  Posted: Sep 01, 2017 - 10:15 PM

  Heres a good primer on throw bag techniques:
  https://youtu.be/B6dxD-ttYAw
  
  Couple of thoughts...
  
  The type IV cushions, with a rope would be my first choice to have on board. The throw bag is not going to save a life when the person is injured, hypothermic or a poor swimmer. Besides adding comfort and style to your cat, it can be used as a boat fender, a rest for your boom or mast, and a rash guard for your keel. Or even as a mast float to help prevent turtling.
  
  Fortunately, the cushions stuff perfectly in a Prindle tramp bag or under the lines that connect my Jib blocks.
  
  All that said, I'm thinking about adding the compact and flat NRS Wedge bag as a throwline/safety line/towline.
  
  
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  Prindle 18
  96734
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