The other thread about the Man Overboard .. got me thinking ...

Just curious if anyone carries a throw-able device?

either extra life jacket, or ring, or cushion, or Throw bags

Always.
There is a pocket on my tramp for it (that can hold two) and the cushion has a length of paracord attached to it in case I'm a lousy shot.
Both ends of the paracord are already secured, so it is ready to throw.

--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--

klozhald

Always.

Awesome!

What kind? (you mention cushion , do you mean the 2' x 2' kind?)



Edited by MN3 on Aug 25, 2017 - 12:17 PM.

Generic 2'x2' cushion with 40' paracord coiled and ready, although frequently used as head pillow and/or ass float for water lounging. Also it's a great attention getter when waved above head. Many uses makes for good equipment to carry say I.

--
Todd

Virginia
--

We just started carrying a bumper as a head pillow on the Waves. It could double as a throwable in a pinch. Wicked comfy when lightly inflated.

--
John

Nacra 5.0
CT
--

Did you know it's required by US Federal Law to have one on a vessel over 16'?

It's been heavily discussed on other forums, years and years ago.
i think - technically, in a race ... you're required to meet all local and federal laws ...

also, most cat sailors don't carry (or know about this law) a Coast Guard-approved throwable device (Type IV).

I recently purchase a white one ($8 at walmart) - because my grey boat is 400000000 degrees hotter than i wish if the sun is out ...

i have carried them on and off again for the past decade...

Federal law requires that you must have a Coast Guard-approved wearable, life jacket (Type I, II, or III) for each person onboard your vessel. In addition, boats greater than 16 feet in length must carry a Coast Guard-approved throwable device (Type IV). A throwable device is not required on canoes or kayaks regardless of length.

http://www.uscgboating.org/content/frequently-asked-questions.php



Edited by MN3 on Aug 25, 2017 - 02:25 PM.

I don't carry one. Who am I gonna throw it to...or who's gonna throw it to me. Seriously though, it probably is a good idea and is legally required. Even for single handing if someone else capsizes while singlehanding it might just come in handy if their boat decides to sail away. We've all seen boats sail by themselves plenty. I know a guy whose H16 caught a gust at our little 80 acre park lake. It sailed itself through 2 beautiful tacks and jibes before he got kayaked out to catch it.

He will probably see this and I will leave it to him to publicly confess!

--
Tim
Collierville (Memphis), TN
Supercat 15--sold :(
Hobie monocat--given
Vanguard 15--traded for...
Nacra 4.5--sold
Nacra 5.7
Hobie 14–sold to make room for...
Supercat 17–sold
--

One extra PFD

--
"Of course it's safe"
--

If you can tread water, I'll throw you a beer!

--
Tom
NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
Pennsylvania
--

I have a large cross-tramp bag... mesh all the way across with a piece of Harbor Freight floor pad across the bottom to give it enough stiffness to pull off the boat easily. In that bag, there's a couple of 14"x14" square throwables (were they ever actually 2'?), a couple mesh bags of line, and a sea anchor.

I haven't had to throw a cushion yet, but when the wind peters out, they come out for comfort. We're required to have a throwable PFD in addition to the ones we're wearing, but I've never been asked.

Randii

I carry one out of habit as I always carried one when growing up (coastal sailing). Same for the paddle. When I was a teenager, I had a tramp bag with the throwable on bottom and a soft cooler on top, where we stored our safety gear (wine coolers and beer).

I now have a large tramp bag and carry the throwable in there. But have asked myself how relevant it is.

The only situation where it might have value is when you flip and have to wait it out. This happened during a regatta that got hit by a squall a few years ago.

--
Ted
Hobie 16
South Carolina Lake sailing
--

MN3

What kind? (you mention cushion , do you mean the 2' x 2' kind?)

Yes. The standard one with sewn-in handles.
The Prindle 18-2 and 19 came with pockets sewn in the tramp big enough for throwables, and intended to cover the SS cable that crosses the tramp for the 4-way jib block traveler. Its easier on the knees if you put in a cushion, so it's a two-birds situation.

--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--

Put me in the "YES" column.

--
Prindle 18
96734
--

This is the throwable bag I got this year. It is small, has 75 feet of rope and can throw it about 50 feet. The bag has a float in it so it is easy to see in the water. Rope is bright yellow and floats. Keep it in the trap bag and will let it out behind boat if capsize and can assist to retrieve crew or skipper if there is a man overboard. Available through NRS (kayaking) website. Price is $59.95 but they frequently go on sale.



Edited by spoulton on Aug 25, 2017 - 08:26 PM.

--
Scott
ARC 21
Prindle 18
Annapolis, Maryland
--

randii

I have a large cross-tramp bag... mesh all the way across with a piece of Harbor Freight floor pad across the bottom to give it enough stiffness to pull off the boat easily. In that bag, there's a couple of 14"x14" square throwables (were they ever actually 2'?), a couple mesh bags of line, and a sea anchor.
Randii

Have a pic or link to this bag Randii?

--
Prindle 18
96734
--

I do not, will try to remember to get one. I picked it up off some Ebay sailmaker's odds-and-ends sail, essentially looks like a king-sized pillow case with a zip across the middle, lengthwise. It spans the full width of the tramp with an inch or two extra on each side, and I put two sets of grommets in the middle and one set of grommets by the hulls. I spliced up some simple softshackles that go through those grommets and over the crossbar, then back to themselves. It is simple and effective, and helps keep gear in one place...including the topic item of this thread.

Randii

I don't carry a throwable when on smaller inland lakes and/or racing as everyone (including me) is wearing a PFD and land or a crash boat is always easily in site. Offshore open water, that's a different story. Then I closely comply with all the regs. and beyond with throwable, flares, whistle, signal mirror, GPS, VHF etc..

--
Hobie 16 (3 formerly)
MacGregor 25 (formerly)
Chrysler Dagger 14 (formerly)
NACRA 5.0 (currently)
High Point, NC
--

leeboweffect

I don't carry a throwable when on smaller inland lakes and/or racing as everyone (including me) is wearing a PFD and land or a crash boat is always easily in site. Offshore open water, that's a different story. Then I closely comply with all the regs. and beyond with throwable, flares, whistle, signal mirror, GPS, VHF etc..

sounds smart!

tominpa

If you can tread water, I'll throw you a beer!

IF I'm treading water, please make it a light beer.

--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--

klozhald

tominpa

If you can tread water, I'll throw you a beer!

IF I'm treading water, please make it a light beer.

Quote

In addition, boats greater than 16 feet in length must carry a Coast Guard-approved throwable device (Type IV).

I have to admit that I haven't carried a throwable device ever. But it does make sense to carry one.

Quote

This is the throwable bag I got this year. It is small, has 75 feet of rope and can throw it about 50 feet. The bag has a float in it so it is easy to see in the water. Rope is bright yellow and floats. Keep it in the trap bag and will let it out behind boat if capsize and can assist to retrieve crew or skipper if there is a man overboard. Available through NRS (kayaking) website. Price is $59.95 but they frequently go on sale.

I have this same NRS throwable bag from my rafting gear and may start including it in the onboard kit. While it will not qualify as the Type IV device, it is actually massively more useful in our situation. Depending on which throw bag you purchase you can get some extremely high strength line in the package which is more useful for all kinds of things besides just a throw line. Like for getting a tow when the shipment of air in the truck doesn't show up on time.

I have had onboard inspections several times aboard This End Up and the local officer past up on the Type IV throwable and were really only interested that we were wearing appropriate life jackets. I have had them pester me on the whitewater raft for the Type IV thing and I have just subtracted the 3" from the actual length of my raft and told them the rafts are 15' 11".(they are actually 16' 2"). A big cushion might be justified on a light air day, but for our purposes they are really just in the way. The throw line on the other hand is massively useful, so if they ever ask I guess I will have to say that my 5.2 is only 15' 11" long (for sure they are not going to have a measuring tape).

--
dg
NACRA 5.2 #400
This End Up
Original owner since 1975
--

I second the throw rope/bag, less so the Type IV throwable cushion. We had both for R2AK 2017 on the Nacra I20 since we were coastal/offshore and needed to comply with USCG and Canada regs. The Type IV throwable we mostly just sat on (or used as a pillow while sleeping) - no rope tied to it. Kind of a waste of space except for the extra comfort!

The throw rope/bag got tested in anger only once (in San Fran Bay) when I separated from my partner after a capsize. Like an idiot I hadn't attached it to the boat, so I threw the rope perfectly on-target, and then promptly let go of the boat-end and lost the whole thing overboard. Don't make that rookie mistake -- whatever you do, always have the boat-end pre-attached to the boat!

We also let the rope trail astern during capsizes, in case we had difficulty getting back on board and the boat started sailing away. But we never really had to rely on the rope in those cases (we found better ways to not get separated in the first place -- more on that in the capsize thread).

Small details not to overlook:
- You want the bag easily accessible and tied to the boat - preferably aft in my opinion (to the footstraps in our case, near the rear beam)
- You want the bag to be easy to pick up and throw (no knots to untie)
- But you don't want the bag to just go overboard on its own (it needs to be clipped)

I personally liked this cheap throw bag from Ebay, with a simple white buckle clip that you can keep clipped to the boat and then unclip in 1 sec to lift the bag and throw it. Ebay link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/K…t-Long-Rope/361539682870 (not affiliated to me). I can't tell if the NRS bag has a similar clip - when choosing bags I decided to avoid any bag that didn't have an easy-release clip.

You can see our setup (orange throw bag by rear-beam) at 0:47 on this video: https://www.facebook.com/…/videos/1907844712794114



Edited by southstars2012 on Aug 31, 2017 - 01:38 AM.

--
SL
Nacra Inter 20 (sold)
2017 Race to Alaska "Team Ketch me if u can"
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TeamKetch/
- Race video highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTWp4DP0VcA
Sausalito CA
--

Quote

Quote

high strength line in the package which is more useful for all kinds of things besides just a throw line. Like for getting a tow when the shipment of air in the truck doesn't show up on time.

haha!

I would personally be real careful not to get a tow with any line i wasn't VERY sure of. If the line can't take the force of the tow (and lots of powerboats really know nothing about how to tow) - it can snap back and take out your eye, or remove an ear.... (on big boats, a whipping (snapped) deck line can take off your leg, or head) - so a line that is meant to pull a 170 lbs person floating in the water may not respond so well to a 1000lb of boat and people being stretched and pulled by a 175hp engine

(just another great reason to carry an anchor ... if you have a bridal setup for it, you are already rigged for a tow)


i see the utility in both types
the cushion can be attached to a line for throwing, can be good as a seat, headrest, pillow and .... has enough buoyancy to actually keep someone afloat - but is a little bulky for smaller decks

the throw bag is much more compact and can also be useful as a drag line behind a capsized boat but has really no flotation aid to the person in the water.

thanks for all the input - this thread has turned into a good thought-stoker and who knows, may help save a life someday

and as a side note: i have never heard of any beach-catamaraner ever ticketed or even pulled over for a gear check in my area. most catsailors around here don't wear pdf's unless its 20knots or more (i wear mine unless it's 2knots or less)



Edited by MN3 on Aug 31, 2017 - 09:51 AM.

The NRS throw bag does have a small float in the bottom of the bag to keep the bag from sinking. These things generally all have fairly high strength line in them and some have Spectra line, so even higher strength. As for people sailing cats without PFD's, I'm of the opinion that Darwin's theory should take effect.

On a raft we would never fix the line to the boat for a lot of very good reasons, but on a cat those reasons don't seem to necessarily apply. The throw bags that I have seen all have a strap with a snap buckle to easily attach the bag to the boat (for carrying the bag and keeping it with the boat). I can see the value of clipping the line to the cat and dropping the bag over in a capsize. If the boat gets away in the righting process you would have a chance at grabbing this line at which point you will have to make a decision as to what you are going to do next. There is a risk here that has to be considered and that is getting entrapped by the line and maybe that has to be considered when deciding whether or not to attach the tag end to the boat or not. IF the boat continues to move, even slowly and you somehow get tangled in this line it could present a serious problem. It may be that a biner that can be quickly clipped in may be an answer based on the condition you are faced with, but leaving the line generally unattached would might be preferable. Not a perfect solution either way.

One of the cool things about a throw bag is that you don't have to reload the line into the bag to throw the next time when you miss. Simply dip the bag in the water and fill it a bit and then throw again and again until you finally get the line where it is needed. Rafters practice throwing these things often because on a river time is of the essence and the sooner you get the bag where it is needed the better.

--
dg
NACRA 5.2 #400
This End Up
Original owner since 1975
--

Quote

I can't tell if the NRS bag has a similar clip - when choosing bags I decided to avoid any bag that didn't have an easy-release clip.

The NRS bag does have a clip to prevent rope from deploying and to allow a quick release.

--
Scott
ARC 21
Prindle 18
Annapolis, Maryland
--

Heres a good primer on throw bag techniques:
https://youtu.be/B6dxD-ttYAw

Couple of thoughts...

The type IV cushions, with a rope would be my first choice to have on board. The throw bag is not going to save a life when the person is injured, hypothermic or a poor swimmer. Besides adding comfort and style to your cat, it can be used as a boat fender, a rest for your boom or mast, and a rash guard for your keel. Or even as a mast float to help prevent turtling.

Fortunately, the cushions stuff perfectly in a Prindle tramp bag or under the lines that connect my Jib blocks.

All that said, I'm thinking about adding the compact and flat NRS Wedge bag as a throwline/safety line/towline.


--
Prindle 18
96734
--