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Standing rig life, Old topic, different take  Bottom

  • I'm planning to replace my rig over the winter. My question pertains to the lifespan of diamond wires.
    Would you all consider the diamond wires to last

    Much longer than the rest of the rig,
    A little longer,
    The same,
    Less?

    --
    Tim
    Collierville (Memphis), TN
    Supercat 15--sold :(
    Hobie monocat--given
    Vanguard 15--traded
    Nacra 4.5--sold
    Nacra 5.7
    Hobie 14
    --
  • Good question. I just replaced everything this year except diamond wires.

    --
    Tom
    NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
    Pennsylvania
    --
  • I'm for sure replacing it all except possibly the diamonds. Putting in a new mast step rod as well. Gotta take the old pretzel shaped one out! Hoping for little to no corrosion on the beam for that job.

    --
    Tim
    Collierville (Memphis), TN
    Supercat 15--sold :(
    Hobie monocat--given
    Vanguard 15--traded
    Nacra 4.5--sold
    Nacra 5.7
    Hobie 14
    --
  • Seems like everyone I talk to has never replaced them on the old school boats. I've done them on my boats for the peace of mind though. If the lower fittings are getting splashed with salt water you'd assume they would be the same as the shrouds.

    When I got my Nacra the previous owner since 1984 said the rigging was original including stays etc. The thimbles were starting to bend but as far as corrosion it was still ok. Was a Houston Texas boat so saw both fresh and salt water.

    I suspect the rigging was 316 stainless not 304 like is commonly used on all the replacement stuff I see online now and that's why it lasted so long. I went ahead and got a big spool of 316 cable when I replaced all of it. It rates at about 85% the strength of 304 but upping the size from 1/8" to 5/32" fixed that. Probably not necessary considering a lot of manufacturers probably used 316 cable stock anyway.

    I'd guess that's why you hear some people saying OEM rigging lasts longer. Just a different grade of stainless

    --
    Matt
    '82 NACRA 18 Square
    '85 Hobie 18 "Honey Badger Don't Care"
    '86 Hobie 18 "The Rippin & The Tearin"
    Clearwater, FL
    --
  • I feel like the loads on diamond wires are more static in nature and therefore less prone to fatigue than shrouds and forestay. So I would say the diamond wires have a significantly longer service life, for a trailered boat, I always deduct some service life for a beach stored boat. I also don't think I would lose my rig on an 18 foot boat due to diamond wire failure so it's not as much of a concern for me as shrouds and forestay. If I had a larger rig I'd be more concerned.



    Edited by jalex on Aug 12, 2017 - 10:31 PM.
  • I'm not sure what the right answer is here. But if a diamond wire fails, your mast will likely fail quickly thereafter under the kinds of loads that made these old wires fail. The economy of pushing the limit on diamond wires would be quickly eclipsed by the failure of the mast and the cost of mast replacement. Just add them to your rigging order and don't think about it anymore. All of these old wires can likely last well beyond where we all push them to. The problem is that when they fail it is a really, really big problem, that didn't need to happen. It is ok to let someone make some money off us once in awhile.

    --
    dg
    NACRA 5.2 #400
    This End Up
    Original owner since 1975
    --
  • Well you guys have presented the exact two sides of the situation I have already considered! Yeah, I'm really not too worried about a failure. I'm not sailing in heavy stuff very often. BUT....as dmg says, the cost of a failure is a lot higher than the cost of replacement. I guess I'll change the diamonds out too as priorities permit.

    --
    Tim
    Collierville (Memphis), TN
    Supercat 15--sold :(
    Hobie monocat--given
    Vanguard 15--traded
    Nacra 4.5--sold
    Nacra 5.7
    Hobie 14
    --
  • I know not everyone is super handy but you can get a swager for like 60-70 bucks. The thimbles are usually reusable if they were decent quality to begin with and the copper sleeves factor out to something like 90 cents where I get them. Get a whole spool of cable and you are good to go to make any length of rigging you need for a long time.

    I changed out the upper turnbuckle fitting for a yoke and used a cut down chain plate at the upper tang to allow the diamonds to be made with thimbles. I think the marginal cost of the actual diamonds was like 16 bucks or something each.

    --
    Matt
    '82 NACRA 18 Square
    '85 Hobie 18 "Honey Badger Don't Care"
    '86 Hobie 18 "The Rippin & The Tearin"
    Clearwater, FL
    --
  • diamond wires go through the same metal fatigue due to repetitive loading and unloading, just like side stays

    the diamond wires are exposed the same amount to the elements -

    you absolutely should replace your diamond wires

    I personally would never re-use thimbles - they are prone to crack and failure during normal (single) use



    Edited by MN3 on Aug 13, 2017 - 03:43 AM.
  • As I have posted before, I would advise against using factory made wires for many boats. A lot of manufactures have begun using cheap SS Wire Rope from less than ideal Asian sources. Get them made locally using Mil/Aerospace spec wire made in the USA or EU, and genuine Mil/Aero spec thimbles, forks and etc. It has not cost me any more than factory supplied parts. On more than one occasion actually less. Demand that the thimbles, forks etc. are packed with Lifecaulk or 5200 before swaging so that water will not intrude. I never buy coated wires, you can not inspect what you can not see. No friggin with the riggin
  • +1
    QuoteAs I have posted before, I would advise against using factory made wires for many boats. A lot of manufactures have begun using cheap SS Wire Rope from less than ideal Asian sources. Get them made locally using Mil/Aerospace spec wire made in the USA or EU, and genuine Mil/Aero spec thimbles, forks and etc. It has not cost me any more than factory supplied parts. On more than one occasion actually less. Demand that the thimbles, forks etc. are packed with Lifecaulk or 5200 before swaging so that water will not intrude. I never buy coated wires, you can not inspect what you can not see. No friggin with the riggin
  • MN3

    I personally would never re-use thimbles - they are prone to crack and failure during normal (single) useEdited by MN3 on Aug 13, 2017 - 03:43 AM.


    Yea you have to be careful. I had a whole package of new ones from salty dog I think that I threw out because they were distorting within the first year of use. But then I salvaged some from a 70s hobie that have the hobie stamp on them and they are twice as thick and don't have a mark on them even after decades. If I have to buy any I try to get the thickest ones I can.

    I've never gone to the trouble of packing the sleeves. It would probably extend the life of the rigging a lot but I think I would still end up replacing it every other season just for peace of mind since it's so cheap to do in the garage anyway. I wonder if it affects the holding strength of the crimp to essentially have a lubricant in there. One crimp on 1x19 wire holds something like 80% of the breaking strength of the cable so if you were doubling up on the crimps It wouldn't matter even it it reduced the hold by 25%

    --
    Matt
    '82 NACRA 18 Square
    '85 Hobie 18 "Honey Badger Don't Care"
    '86 Hobie 18 "The Rippin & The Tearin"
    Clearwater, FL
    --
  • tamumpower1
    MN3

    I personally would never re-use thimbles - they are prone to crack and failure during normal (single) useEdited by MN3 on Aug 13, 2017 - 03:43 AM.


    Yea you have to be careful. I had a whole package of new ones from salty dog I think that I threw out because they were distorting within the first year of use. But then I salvaged some from a 70s hobie that have the hobie stamp on them and they are twice as thick and don't have a mark on them even after decades. If I have to buy any I try to get the thickest ones I can.

    I've never gone to the trouble of packing the sleeves. It would probably extend the life of the rigging a lot but I think I would still end up replacing it every other season just for peace of mind since it's so cheap to do in the garage anyway. I wonder if it affects the holding strength of the crimp to essentially have a lubricant in there. One crimp on 1x19 wire holds something like 80% of the breaking strength of the cable so if you were doubling up on the crimps It wouldn't matter even it it reduced the hold by 25%


    you may be on to something with older/thicker thimbles - i have not dealt with many of them, i use them mostly for HM splices

    re: packing them - it's just to keep water out
    Catman uses locktite in there



    Edited by MN3 on Aug 13, 2017 - 02:34 PM.
  • HULLFLYERAs I have posted before, I would advise against using factory made wires for many boats. A lot of manufactures have begun using cheap SS Wire Rope from less than ideal Asian sources. Get them made locally using Mil/Aerospace spec wire made in the USA or EU, and genuine Mil/Aero spec thimbles, forks and etc. It has not cost me any more than factory supplied parts. On more than one occasion actually less. Demand that the thimbles, forks etc. are packed with Lifecaulk or 5200 before swaging so that water will not intrude. I never buy coated wires, you can not inspect what you can not see. No friggin with the riggin


    Do you have a good source for this? On the hydraulically swagged rigged, which is what most higher performance boats use, the failure point is corrosion inside the unselaed swagged fitting. I could try to caulk myself on a set of new rigging but I don't think it would do much.
  • This is kinda why I brought up the wd40 topic a few days ago. For fittings that aren't caulked or sealed (or if the sealant has deteriorated) it seems like the wd40 or some other rust inhibitor would help prolong the life of the wire.

    --
    Tim
    Collierville (Memphis), TN
    Supercat 15--sold :(
    Hobie monocat--given
    Vanguard 15--traded
    Nacra 4.5--sold
    Nacra 5.7
    Hobie 14
    --

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