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Which righting bag, and what tackle for it?  Bottom

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  • Hi,

    Looking to get a righting bag, does anyone have experience / preferance out of the two main supppliers Colorado Bag Co and Murrays (or suggest any other suppliers):

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/3…%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true

    https://www.murrays.com/product/01-3282/

    Col Bag Co is 16"x24" 160lbs, Murray's is 18"x32" 250 lbs, so on the face of it my instinct is to go for the bigger bag, but heard lots of good things about the Col Bag Co bag, and there were some comments that Murray's bag leaked, and maybe the bigger bag is to much to handle?

    Also what tackle is required; I see Murrays optionally sell the bag with a 4:1 system https://www.murrays.com/product/01-3280/, based on experience is that the right setup?

    It will be used by me (200lbs, solo sometimes) to right a Nacra 5.2.

    Thanks

    Anthony

    --
    -----
    Nacra 5.2

    'There is nothing, but nothing as much fun as simply messing about in boats'
    --
  • I use the Colorado Big Righting bag with my Hobie 21SE and an old Hobie 14 main block setup to right my boat. Also I have shroud extenders that make righting the boat easier. icon_wink

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    Bill 404 21SE
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  • bill40421SEI use the Colorado Big Righting bag with my Hobie 21SE and an old Hobie 14 main block setup to right my boat. Also I have shroud extenders that make righting the boat easier. icon_wink


    Interesting, what ratio is that mainblock setup? Thinking about it I have an old small 6:1 main setup I could repurpose. Do the shroud extenders make much difference? So far I had avoided that option due to having to make sure the mast base captive pin was still in place, getting the shroud connected again afterwards etc.

    Thanks

    Anthony

    --
    -----
    Nacra 5.2

    'There is nothing, but nothing as much fun as simply messing about in boats'
    --
  • 6:1 is overkill. You have to sink the bag, then raise it to about chest level. That can be 4-5 feet, meaning you would need 30' of line with a 6:1.
    Go to this thread for the solution.
    https://www.thebeachcats.…pic/topic/16703/start/20

    --
    Hobie 18 Magnum
    Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
    Nacra 5.7
    Nacra 5.0
    Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
    Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
    --
  • Edchris177...Go to this thread for the solution. https://www.thebeachcats.…pic/topic/16703/start/20


    Ahhh... I had previously looked at that thread but turns out I only saw the second page, I didnt see the first page with your post on etc.

    Thanks that helps a lot, looks like a Colarado Bag Co bag and a 3:1 setup is the answer.

    Anthony



    Edited by aquaaddict on Jul 12, 2017 - 02:48 PM.

    --
    -----
    Nacra 5.2

    'There is nothing, but nothing as much fun as simply messing about in boats'
    --
  • Addict - that CB bag is smaller than the Murrays, but the Murrays is not at all easy to fill to capacity. The CB appears to have a flat bottom and holds its round shape well. So it might work better in a pinch. Efficiency counts if you're drifting fast toward a hazard.

    I see that the CB has 4 balanced straps. Makes sense. Murrays only 2 long ones, so it wants to collapse all the time.

    The Murrays blocks are great quality but overkill. They are heavy and sharp and you don't want them banging on your hulls or your head - trust me.

    Murrays bag has a long top rope, intended to be flung over the hull and tied somewhere on your tramp. Not tied to a righting line. The rope is thin and pretty slick. if you actually tried to put 200lbs on this, I suspect you would see gelcoat damage.

    Having your own short loop of soft rope over the hull and clipping your tackle onto this makes real sense.

    I own the expensive Murrays bag and it frustrated me when it really mattered, so I would encourage anyone to try an alternative, tweak it a bit, and let us know how it works out.

    --
    Prindle 18
    96734
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  • Thanks for the interesting feedback on the Murray's bag, glad I didnt order one of them now. Thats a good point about the sharp/metal blocks and rope types, I'll get the composite ones instead and hang the tackle arrangement off a soft righting line.

    I have ordered a CB Co bag and will put it together a 3:1 system based on the experience and explanations from edchris and will let you all know how it goes.

    Some great info in this and the other threads, I am sure they will become a good source of reference.

    Thanks

    Anthony

    --
    -----
    Nacra 5.2

    'There is nothing, but nothing as much fun as simply messing about in boats'
    --
  • One last tweak. Sew, or otherwise attach a strap or line to outside bottom of the bag. When you right the boat in a blow, it starts to drift. The bag becomes a sea anchor, & it can be hard to drag it back onboard, what with sails, lines etc all flogging around, & the righting line now under the hull.
    You can grab the line & by pulling from the bottom of the bag, it collapses & comes aboard easily.

    --
    Hobie 18 Magnum
    Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
    Nacra 5.7
    Nacra 5.0
    Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
    Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
    --
  • FWIW, The Murrays bag system is almost the same cost as their full righting pole system, which seems to be much faster and easier to use.

    --
    Prindle 18
    96734
    --
  • Edchris177One last tweak. Sew, or otherwise attach a strap or line to outside bottom of the bag. When you right the boat in a blow, it starts to drift. The bag becomes a sea anchor, & it can be hard to drag it back onboard, what with sails, lines etc all flogging around, & the righting line now under the hull.
    You can grab the line & by pulling from the bottom of the bag, it collapses & comes aboard easily.


    Great tip, these two threads are now pretty much a definitive how to guide icon_smile

    I have a carbon windsurf mast to try making a righting pole from as an experiment, when I get around to making that and have the bag it will be interesting to compare the effectiveness of the two.

    Thanks

    Anthony

    --
    -----
    Nacra 5.2

    'There is nothing, but nothing as much fun as simply messing about in boats'
    --
  • QuoteMurrays bag has a long top rope, intended to be flung over the hull and tied somewhere on your tramp. Not tied to a righting line. The rope is thin and pretty slick. if you actually tried to put 200lbs on this, I suspect you would see gelcoat damage.


    this is my 3rd from them and that is not how any of mine have been rigged

    There is about 20' of line for the 4:1 blocks - that gives you 5' of area to work with (sea-level to shoulder height so you can push it out with your back)

    The top becket on the blocks has about 6' of line that is meant to be attached to the righting line or tied around a hull - u can modify it with a carabiner, s hook or whatever you want

    https://www.thebeachcats.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=128348&g2_serialNumber=4

    i have used these bags many times, on many types of cats, i have never seen hull damage (i am sure it is possible to dent/damage a deck lid lip or soft / old hulls -) if your worried use a softer/thicker more stretchy line or whip a jacket on the part of the line that would touch your hull, or whip a pool noodle around there...



    Edited by MN3 on Jul 13, 2017 - 12:04 PM.
  • I expect to take delivery of a Murrays righting bag tomorrow. My boat currently has the big cat righting system on a bungie retractor under the tramp. Deploying that system requires pulling the righting line up to the front beam, then tossing over the hull which can be tricky, but works okay.

    I was going to attach a second righting line with a carabiner attached to the bag, to toss over the hull. I would stow this under or over the center of the tramp. Any thoughts?

    --
    Tom
    NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
    Pennsylvania
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  • I've seen a Hawaiian style set up in person
    never the one you have

    my guess would be:
    you will prob find the bag is enough (with good technique) and wont need the current system (but wouldn't hurt to have both onboard)
  • Murrays sent only the line and pulleys, not the bag...still waiting on the corrected shipping. At this price you'd think they would get it right.

    Anyway, plenty of line supplied to tie off to the mast base and throw the bag and uphaul over the hull.



    Edited by tominpa on Jul 13, 2017 - 11:50 PM.

    --
    Tom
    NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
    Pennsylvania
    --
  • I have the Hawaiian system on my P18 and it did not do the trick. Not enough outward leverage with lift her with 2 guys. It might work in ideal conditions, with plenty of wind assist. I wasn't good enough and lucky enough to make it work. I keep it there for purchase under the hull and as a chicken line.

    Murrays' bag has a 7 ft line above the block. Extra long to adapt to different boats. For example you can't make a loop around the hull on the P18, except in front of the beam, so the tramp or mast would be the next choice.

    But I love the idea of a righting line loop and have added it to my setup. Also a loop for my harness. I put a giant biner on the bags attachment line so I can hook onto something quickly, even if i'm banged up.

    A second righting line is there for any crew. It can also clip onto a "V" bridle line, to double as a mooring/anchor line when I launch and land the boat solo.

    Another disadvantage to the bag and block system I've discovered, is that it needs to be fresh water rinsed after every sail and then opened/hung to dry. It gets wet there on the tramp, even if you don't need it.

    I picked up lots of great righting tips from other threads around here. Thanks everyone. Hope it all works as intended next time I Huli.

    --
    Prindle 18
    96734
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  • EdChris177One last tweak. Sew, or otherwise attach a strap or line to outside bottom of the bag. When you right the boat in a blow, it starts to drift. The bag becomes a sea anchor, & it can be hard to drag it back onboard, what with sails, lines etc all flogging around, & the righting line now under the hull.
    You can grab the line & by pulling from the bottom of the bag, it collapses & comes aboard easily.


    This is gold. Righting in weather and waves is hard enough without added gear making it harder instead of easier.

    --
    Sheet In!
    Bob
    Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
    AZ Multihull Fleet 42
    (Way) Past Commodore, Prindle Fleet 14
    Arizona, USA
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  • I got the complete system just in time for a stationary front to setup shop over us. No winds and hot, humid conditions. I guess I'll hang in the pool for a day or two. The system seems pretty nice and straight-forward, but I don't see an easy place to attach a line to the bottom.

    --
    Tom
    NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
    Pennsylvania
    --
  • An iron-on patch over a rope with a stopknot would be the easiest way. Would be nice to also have a floating rope, so long as it doesn't defeat your filling the bag.

    Here's the official righting bag directions, care of Stan at Murrays. Hope you all can download it.

    https://www.thebeachcats.…2d073c801478500c6cca93c8



    Edited by nohuhu on Jul 18, 2017 - 02:25 PM.

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    Prindle 18
    96734
    --
  • nohuhuHere's the official righting bag directions, care of Stan at Murrays. Hope you all can download it.


    "ALWAYS uncleat your main and jib sheets before attempting to
    right your boat to prevent the boat from sailing away without you, or with you
    still in the bag.
    ALWAYS wear your life jacket and use good boating safety and
    seamanship. ALWAYS hold onto the boat."

    "or with you still in the bag." What the hell? I make sure there are no humans in my bag before use!
  • You don't actually need any blocks technically. I just have 2 loops on my righting rope. One for me to hook my harness on and one up above my head to put the bag rope through. If you lift the bag up while squatting on the boat as high as you can get it, it will lift out of the water as you squat out. Sure I don't have enough strength to lift it any higher while standing out from the boat so if it needs more water or I need to raise the bag a little higher to get the boat over fully I just squat back in, adjust, and go back out. The friction from the ropes is enough that it's easy to hold the bag up. One hand on the bag over my shoulder and one holding the rope coming back from the loop.



    Edited by tamumpower1 on Jul 19, 2017 - 12:03 PM.

    --
    Matt
    '82 NACRA 18 Square
    '85 Hobie 18 "Honey Badger Don't Care"
    '86 Hobie 18 "The Rippin & The Tearin"
    Dunedin, FL
    --

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