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Nacra Rudder Bungee  Bottom

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  • Now rebuilding/restoring the rudders on my 1983 5.0. The rudder hold up arangement is a bungee that runs through the tiller handle/tube. One end loops around a hole in the rudder while the other end loops around a clevis pin that the Pivmatic hinges on:

    http://www.thebeachcats.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=119553&g2_serialNumber=3

    The bungee is 1/4" diameter and appears to have had the rubber bands stripped out of it at the rudder attachment end. The entire loop is secured with hog/D rings. My questions are:

    Is this the standard/factory arrangement?

    The bungee has to hold the rudder up when not in the locked down/cleated position yet have enough length to allow it to lengthen w/o too much force or damage when the rudder is moved to the full down position. Is there a spec. for the bungee length?

    --
    Hobie 16 (3 formerly)
    MacGregor 25 (formerly)
    Chrysler Dagger 14 (formerly)
    NACRA 5.0 (currently)
    High Point, NC
    --
  • QuoteIs this the standard/factory arrangement?

    Yes, as written in the manual.
    QuoteIs there a spec. for the bungee length?

    IIRC it's 4'...BUT, how will you be operating? I need to be able to round up just short of the shore, so I tension mine so the rudders only rise to horizontal. If you want them to be "erect", you need more tension.
    I would use 5/16" bungee.
    Don't cut the bungee at first. Feed one end of the full length you buy though the tiller tube, & clamp a vice grip to it. Stretch it somewhat, & feed the remaining length through rudder & back up tiller tube. Grab that end with a second vice grip & tension to desired amount. Hog ring, then cut it.
    I have the exact length I use written down somewhere...but that length depends on how erect you want your rudders.
    The manual says to tie a line to the ends & stretch, I find vice grips easier, but of course if you undo them prematurely,you have to feed them again.
    Either way, with 5/16", it is easier to get the pivmatic pin through,(between the two bungees) if they are stretched. Use good quality bungee, & radius/poilish the edges of the casting where they rub. They will then last for years.
    Don't forget the short piece of tubing,(just an inch of garden hose or plastic tubing that prevents the rudder from hitting end of the tiller tube...you need to put it on as you feed the bungee through.
    http://www.thebeachcats.c…pictures?g2_itemId=80972

    --
    Hobie 18 Magnum
    Dart 15
    Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
    Nacra 5.7
    Nacra 5.0
    Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
    Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
    --
  • FYI, I've never had good luck getting and keeping enough tension to keep the rudders up high. I may also not have enough patience to fiddle too long with the vice grips. :) I also hate having to fight the shock cord to get them down. Mine have just enough tension to release them and the i let them float from there.

    --
    Dave Bonin
    1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
    1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
    --
  • Dave is right, it's very hard to pull that shock cord tight and argue the cinch rings around the two pieces of shock cord, but if you do it tight, the rudders pop up high very nicely. Pete
  • Thanks Ed, Dave and Pete. Has anyone ever seen the bungees with the rubber bands stripped out at the rudder end? Seems like a lot of work. My thought is that this was done to reduce the envelope of the setup such that it would enter the tube with less chance for interference.

    --
    Hobie 16 (3 formerly)
    MacGregor 25 (formerly)
    Chrysler Dagger 14 (formerly)
    NACRA 5.0 (currently)
    High Point, NC
    --
  • I've never seen that. This is what I use. http://www.apsltd.com/line/shockcord-stretchcord-webbing/covered-shock-cord-1-4-quot-6mm.html

    --
    Dave Bonin
    1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
    1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
    --
  • QuoteDave is right, it's very hard to pull that shock cord tight and argue the cinch rings around the two pieces of shock cord

    Yes, solo it can be frustrating. Get a helper, & a real set of hog ring pliers, with correct sized hog rings. One person stretches the bungee, the second applies the ring.
    Why bother with trying to strip out the rubber bands? There is no need to.

    --
    Hobie 18 Magnum
    Dart 15
    Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
    Nacra 5.7
    Nacra 5.0
    Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
    Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
    --
  • I'm with Ed. GET the hog ring pliers for $14.00. A great tool you will also need for trap bungee and righting lines.
    If you use an extra foot or so of 5/16" bungee you can tie a knot and put a ring next to it to keep the knot from slipping apart. Then it is possible to pull the on the knot with one hand and crimp the hog ring with the other hand. Rudder should be propped in up position while assembling bungee.

    --
    Mark Hirte
    Nacra 5.0 1983 - (1st cat)
    Deerfield, Il
    --
  • Thanks Mark. I've got the pliers. Here's a place I found that has the rings (in all sizes), pliers etc.. Their ring section has a handy guide to show you which size ring is appropriate for the diameter of cord you use.

    http://www.bosunsupplies.com/home.php

    Ed, your photo above is worth a thousand words. Having now had time to enlarge and examine it in detail, it appears as though the material going through the hole in the rudder is line, not bungee? Did you loop the bungee inside the tiller tube and tie a short piece of line from that loop to the rudder?

    --
    Hobie 16 (3 formerly)
    MacGregor 25 (formerly)
    Chrysler Dagger 14 (formerly)
    NACRA 5.0 (currently)
    High Point, NC
    --
  • I left my rudders limp and made a length of shock cord that has a loop for around the top of the rudder that hooks to the tramp lacing to keep them erect when on my lift.

    --
    NACRA 5.0 (current)
    Hobie 16 90945 (current) Rehabbed and sold to many to count.
    Hobie 18 (formerly)
    Hobie 17 (formerly)
    Hobie 14 (formerly)
    Goshen, IN
    --
  • Thanks Swampfox. I haven't decided yet which angle of dangle I'll go with. Like Ed said above he has a need to round up quickly when landing so some steerage is needed in shallow water. I have experienced the same at the coast when surfing my Hobies in under an onshore breeze.

    --
    Hobie 16 (3 formerly)
    MacGregor 25 (formerly)
    Chrysler Dagger 14 (formerly)
    NACRA 5.0 (currently)
    High Point, NC
    --
  • Quoteit appears as though the material going through the hole in the rudder is line, not bungee? Did you loop the bungee inside the tiller tube and tie a short piece of line from that loop to the rudder?

    That photo is when I first picked up the boat, & disassembled it for overhaul. All the lines were total crap, (the tramp was using a length of rotted yellow poly)
    This is todays setup.(I added full size photos to the N5.7 Album, along with downhaul) It is the 5.0 rudder, but the 5.7 is done the same way. I attempted to use a piece of abrasion sleeve, where the bungee goes through the rudder blade. It is WAY easier to just smooth the edge of the hole. Getting bungee through with sleeve was a bi*ch.
    http://www.thebeachcats.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=119563&g2_serialNumber=4
    QuoteI left my rudders limp and made a length of shock cord that has a loop for around the top of the rudder that hooks to the tramp lacing to keep them erect when on my lift.

    This photo is on the lift, today. I let them hang just a bit, so we have steering to round up in a confined space. With the lift cranked, they are over a foot off the water.
    http://www.thebeachcats.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=119560&g2_serialNumber=4

    --
    Hobie 18 Magnum
    Dart 15
    Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
    Nacra 5.7
    Nacra 5.0
    Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
    Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
    --
  • Thanks Ed, and again another very helpful photo.

    In addition to reducing wear on the bungees, I think your rudder casting edge radiusing/polishing will help reduce wear/scratches/scrapes on the rudder to some degree. Even with plastic spacer shims there could be some contact under high load maneuvers like rounding up hard, being chased by surf or swells etc..

    --
    Hobie 16 (3 formerly)
    MacGregor 25 (formerly)
    Chrysler Dagger 14 (formerly)
    NACRA 5.0 (currently)
    High Point, NC
    --
  • The plastic shims were mostly to take up any slop between the blade & casting. If you operate off a sand/gravel beach, you will still get score marks on the blades when grit gets caught between the blade & casting.

    --
    Hobie 18 Magnum
    Dart 15
    Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
    Nacra 5.7
    Nacra 5.0
    Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
    Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
    --
  • I'm missing this bushing that the bungee goes around at the tiller connector:

    http://www.thebeachcats.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=119586&g2_serialNumber=3

    Does anyone know what size it is, ID=1/4", OD=?, material=?

    My best guess is that the OD should be 3/8" and material nylon.



    Edited by leeboweffect on Aug 19, 2015 - 06:13 PM.

    --
    Hobie 16 (3 formerly)
    MacGregor 25 (formerly)
    Chrysler Dagger 14 (formerly)
    NACRA 5.0 (currently)
    High Point, NC
    --
  • leeboweffectI'm missing this bushing that the bungee goes around at the tiller connector:

    http://www.thebeachcats.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=119586&g2_serialNumber=3


    There's no bushing that I know of, at least not on the 90's boats. (Disclaimer, 70's and 80's boats may be different.)

    Like in the pic.
    Pull the bungee out of the tiller with the right hand. He has a line attached to the bungee. Vice grips work too.
    With the left hand, put the bolt on the tiller crossbar connector thru the holes in the tiller and go thru the loop in the bungee.
    Let go of the line or vice grips holding the bungee and put the nut on the bolt.

    --
    Ron
    Nacra F18
    Reservoir Sailing Assn.
    Brandon, Mississippi
    --
  • I did both of mine using 4 feet of 3/8 inch per side. After cutting of the old one, removed pin and bolt from pivmatic and tiller connection. Feed a loop of small 1/8 or so line from back so loop came out the front. Tied clove hitches to each bungee, pulled them past the rivits on at a time. Connected the loop to trailer winch, pulled a bit, balanced tension, then pulled until 2 or 3 inches showed. Used an pbillps screw driver to clear path for pin. Used needle nose to place bushing for bolt. Wired the bungee cord with a few wraps of safety wire (don't have a big ring pliers). Let tension off. I didn't trim the ends yet, wants to try a few landings first.

    Zip tied the cords at the rudder. Didnt use hose because none available of proper diameter, but should get some and add it.

    Second one was done in 10 minutes, no cussing required.

    --
    John

    Marstrom Tornado
    Nacra 5.0

    CT
    --
  • ctcatamanno cussing required.


    I'm not certain that it's required, but these words emanate from me virtually every time I work on rudders!

    I use 5/16" bungee on the Nacra 5.0 and find the free length varies from 46-1/2" - 48" depending on the brand of cord. I overlap the ends about 1-1/2" then double hog ring the splice finishing with a final tight wrap of rigging tape to tuck in the frayed ends. The best, most durable cord I've found is NovaTech (expensive), but the hardware store variant will work, just not as long. I don't enjoy replacing the cord so I spend the money and get 2-3 seasons service.

    https://www.novabraid.com/rope/nova-shock-cord/

    I like your idea of tie wrapping the loop at the rudder.

    --
    Hobie 16 (3 formerly)
    MacGregor 25 (formerly)
    Chrysler Dagger 14 (formerly)
    NACRA 5.0 (currently)
    High Point, NC
    --
  • Hello, just did this job on my 5.2 and here is what I did to get rudders that park up high..5/16 cord cut to 38" then overlaped 1.5 to 2 inches with double hog rings and then taped to keep them nice and tight on the splice...use the 3/4" vinyl hose 1 to 1 1/4"and make sure you feed them thru the rudder hole before the hog ring job. I then put that splice about 1/3 of the way up and using a 1/4 inch line about 4-5 feet long and feed it up from the bottom and out the top of the tube...make sure you have pulled the pivmatic and cross bar pins out...get yourself a phillips screw driver that will fit into the pin holes...pull the line out the top of the tube and put the screwdriver thru it and pull out your line from the bungie loop. Now insert the crossbar pin with the bracket on it and make sure you go thru the center of the bungie and clip it in then remove the screwdriver. Now on the pivmatic pin easily push that screw driver again thru the center between the two bungies and the pivmatic holes then go to the other side and push the pivot pin in thru right up against the end of the phillips screwdriver as you pull it out carefully so the pin follows in thru the center of the bungies. Now hook up your lowering line and they should pop right up. I also put another hog ring right above the hole in the rudder where the bungie goes thru maybe a inch or so up from there to keep it tight together then the vinyl hose sits right over the hogring. This worked for me hope it does for you.
  • Great info, thanks for the details.

    --
    John

    Marstrom Tornado
    Nacra 5.0

    CT
    --

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