• catmodding
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Aug 11, 2010
  • Last visit: Mar 19, 2018
  • Posts: 424

  Posted: Sep 07, 2014 - 03:07 PM

  Hi,
  
  Remember the wooden red Tornado I was planning to restore ?
  Well, due to circumstances it didn't make it.
  So, all that was left was mast,boards, rudders, boom, beam and sails.
  
  To my surprise a very nice guy ,who knows my sailmaker, called me
  and told he had found a neglected T in a ditch and he found the
  owner. He needed a mast and other hardware .
  So we went together to pick the cat up. And split the merchandise.
  Thank You Misha !
  We towed it out of the ditch with my volvo
  
  It was supposed to be a balsa-wood / epoxy cat.
  It came with beams and a good trampoline but in sorry
  state, because it had been in the water for years.
  
  
  
  With help from a club member we started sanding .
  
  
  
  To find a rotten fore-deck in the port hull. The other hull is sound.
  
  
  
  So, we took it out. To discover its an epoxy T, with a balsa/ epoxy
  deck.
  
  
  
  We kept the upper-deck as a template.
  
  
  
  And started rebuilding.
  
  
  
  Hope to have the deck finished in 4 days, after that its paint.
  Fingers crossed for a indian summer. Wanna sail this T asap !
  
  Sold the P18-2 yesterday to have some resources rigging the T.
  
  While sanding, we didn't find a vin-number or brand-name,
  only it has sailspar beams and mast, so we decided its a "russian" Tornado
  witch had a wealthy owner and rigged it in Britain
  
  André
  
  
  
  Edited by catmodding on Sep 07, 2014 - 11:59 PM.
  
  --
  Tornado (80's Reg White)
  Prindle 18-2 (sold)
  Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
  13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
  Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.
  
  Amsterdam, the Netherlands
  --

  • 
  •  
• peterk123
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Aug 26, 2013
  • Last visit: Apr 13, 2018
  • Posts: 151

  Posted: Sep 07, 2014 - 04:01 PM

  Take lots more pics of the process. Looks like a great project. Nice job of saving a great boat!
  
  --
  New Prindle 18-2 Owner
  Former Prindle 18 Owner
  Multiple Hobie 16s
  Boylston Massachusetts
  Webster Lake Indian Lake Narragnsett Bay in Rhode Island
  --

  • 
  •  
• pknapp66
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: May 09, 2009
  • Last visit: May 15, 2023
  • Posts: 684

  Posted: Sep 07, 2014 - 06:16 PM

  Maybe an early Reg White Tornado? I have one with rotten decks around the port holes.
  
  --
  Pete Knapp
  Schodack landing,NY
  Goodall Viper,AHPC Viper,Nacra I20
  --

  • 
  •  
• davefarmer
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Oct 26, 2002
  • Last visit: Sep 23, 2019
  • Posts: 390

  Posted: Sep 08, 2014 - 07:44 AM

  Looking at that list of your boats Pete, I'd suggest counseling. You obviously have an addiction.
  
  Dave

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• MN3
  
  

  • Rank: Master Chief
  • Registered: Jun 20, 2006
  • Last visit: Apr 06, 2024
  • Posts: 7088

  Posted: Sep 08, 2014 - 08:06 AM

  Quote

  Looking at that list of your boats Pete, I'd suggest counseling. You obviously have an addiction.

  
  how many do you own?

  • 
  •  
• catmodding
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Aug 11, 2010
  • Last visit: Mar 19, 2018
  • Posts: 424

  Posted: Sep 08, 2014 - 11:50 AM

  pknapp66

  Maybe an early Reg White Tornado? I have one with rotten decks around the port holes.

  
  
  Dont't know if its an Reg White, it probably is, given the fact it has SailSpar beams
  and mast, like the idea its a Russian boat tough.
  
  Finished sanding the hulls with 80 grain today, boy, this cat has had a lot
  of colors!! The original color was yellow .
  
  Yesterday we tried to make a new under deck from okumé -ply, didn't work,
  we could not bend it into shape. Working with bend frames made it to heavy.
  So I went to a pro, he advised me to use the good hull front-deck as a template
  by covering the good front-deck with a plastic-foil and glass-fiber and epoxy
  that. After curing there's a perfect deck shape in glass/epoxy.
  We start on that tomorrow, wil make pictures.
  
  André
  
  
  
  Edited by catmodding on Sep 08, 2014 - 06:51 PM.
  
  --
  Tornado (80's Reg White)
  Prindle 18-2 (sold)
  Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
  13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
  Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.
  
  Amsterdam, the Netherlands
  --

  • 
  •  
• peterk123
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Aug 26, 2013
  • Last visit: Apr 13, 2018
  • Posts: 151

  Posted: Sep 08, 2014 - 04:57 PM

  The 16s are gone, but I was supposed to pick up a hobie wave today :) Unfortunately, the skeg was split in half; looked like a peeled banana. Man, it was a 2009 and owned by a yacht club/sailing school. Had nearly new sails. I guessed it was dragged around just a bit on the rocks. Lot of driving for nothing.
  
  Anyway, looking forward to the pics. Cool idea about molding the deck from the good one. Document that one well. I remember reading about guys peel off damaged decks on some of the nacras, but they were able to order new decks from the manufacturer. Not sure this is still the case on some of the older boats, so this would be a great alternative.
  
  --
  New Prindle 18-2 Owner
  Former Prindle 18 Owner
  Multiple Hobie 16s
  Boylston Massachusetts
  Webster Lake Indian Lake Narragnsett Bay in Rhode Island
  --

  • 
  •  
• pknapp66
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: May 09, 2009
  • Last visit: May 15, 2023
  • Posts: 684

  Posted: Sep 08, 2014 - 06:21 PM

  Currently 6 ready to sail and 1 tornado project. In my defense the H18 magnum is in the classifieds,but I am
  Considering an H21 SE project. My name is Pete and I am an addict. There I took the first step. I don't own a Nacra....
  
  --
  Pete Knapp
  Schodack landing,NY
  Goodall Viper,AHPC Viper,Nacra I20
  --

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• kernunnos
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: May 04, 2014
  • Last visit: Mar 03, 2015
  • Posts: 138

  Posted: Sep 08, 2014 - 07:56 PM

  My name is Steve and I am addicted to sailing.
  3 ready to sail and a 22 foot MacGregor in the works...
  Wife wants to sleep on the water.
  What can I say?
  
  --
  1975 P16 "Spring Rain"Sail # 642
  Home Built 2004 Optimist-Delta "Unity"
  So old it has Dino hide for a sail Chrysler "Pirateer"
  Steve
  Oyama BC
  Lat 50.1167 N
  Long 119.3667 W
  1700 ft
  --

  • 
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• catmodding
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Aug 11, 2010
  • Last visit: Mar 19, 2018
  • Posts: 424

  Posted: Sep 09, 2014 - 03:25 PM

  To much rain today, (unexpected) and work ..
  Tomorrow sanding in 125 grain and maybe 300's
  Still trying to get the "replica" set together, foam
  and epoxy-resistant foil.
  
  André
  
  --
  Tornado (80's Reg White)
  Prindle 18-2 (sold)
  Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
  13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
  Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.
  
  Amsterdam, the Netherlands
  --

  • 
  •  
• catmodding
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Aug 11, 2010
  • Last visit: Mar 19, 2018
  • Posts: 424

  Posted: Sep 10, 2014 - 02:09 PM

  Hi,
  so, went to a professional boatbuilder-shop today and bought;
  Some foil to cover the deck.
  Pre Impregnated foam 5mm.
  3 Kg of epoxy.
  Boy, now I know why light-weight racing yachts are so expensive !!
  
  We started spanning the foil over the "good" frontdeck
  
  
  
  Then, like some proper "Hans Brinker" Dutch guys we made some
  dykes to prevent the epoxy flowing all over the place.
  We used anti-draft tape used for door and windows.
  
  
  
  Then cut 3 layers of glass into shape.
  
  
  
  Epoxied them to the foil. Sorry, couldn't make foto's, my hospital-
  gloves were soaked in epoxy. 2 layers of 280 gr/sqm , 1 of 380 gr.
  
  
  
  Now, as for foam. There's two sorts of pre impregnated foam,
  one is made to " bake of " after its put in shape.
  I bought the one that can be "cold cured " its 5mm and expensive.
  They only sell it in standard ply-wood size.
  Gonna donate the rest of it to club-members in need.
  
  
  
  After al the precious work today, my mate gently stabbed a knife
  in a decks gelcoat-crack, only to discover the previous owner(s) put
  at least 3/4 layers of rubbish on the original deck. Gelcoat is absurd !
  Thick and heavy .
  So next job is stabbing the decks clean and sand till its yellow-ish..
  After this the T has lost a lot of weight !
  Especially the blue paint is something very low-budget. The gelcoat
  didn't stick to it and it didn't stick to the epoxy-deck. So we can stab
  off most of it away.
  
  
  
  
  
  Keep You posted, André
  
  
  
  Edited by catmodding on Sep 10, 2014 - 09:42 PM.
  
  --
  Tornado (80's Reg White)
  Prindle 18-2 (sold)
  Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
  13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
  Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.
  
  Amsterdam, the Netherlands
  --

  • 
  •  
• peterk123
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Aug 26, 2013
  • Last visit: Apr 13, 2018
  • Posts: 151

  Posted: Sep 10, 2014 - 05:05 PM

  Like
  
  --
  New Prindle 18-2 Owner
  Former Prindle 18 Owner
  Multiple Hobie 16s
  Boylston Massachusetts
  Webster Lake Indian Lake Narragnsett Bay in Rhode Island
  --

  • 
  •  
• klozhald
  
  

  • Rank: Chief
  • Registered: Apr 19, 2011
  • Last visit: Dec 13, 2023
  • Posts: 1445

  Posted: Sep 10, 2014 - 06:21 PM

  André,
  This is awesome!
  I'm sad that you had to sell the P 18-2, but to build this rocket - totally worth it!
  As usual you are doing a great job of documenting it for us.
  Bob
  
  --
  Sheet In!
  Bob
  _/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
  Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
  Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
  AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
  (Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
  Arizona, USA
  --

  • 
  •  
• catmodding
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Aug 11, 2010
  • Last visit: Mar 19, 2018
  • Posts: 424

  Posted: Sep 13, 2014 - 01:18 AM

  Hi,
  Yesterday started a bit disappointing , 3 layers of glass is
  not enough to make sturdy a deck, it was floppy like a
  mousepad.
  So I added 2 more layers and went walking the dog.
  I recommend at least 6 layers of glass if some-one ever
  gonna do this.
  
  
  
  The next day the deck was a lot better.
  
  
  
  We kept the old deck as a template.
  
  
  
  To draw the required size on the new deck.
  And cut it to the right size.
  
  
  
  I was wondering it would fit inhere.
  
  
  
  Well, it fitted like a glove !! And has the right curve.
  We needed a screwdriver to get it out again !
  
  
  
  A glass only deck isn't strong enough, so we are gonna
  strengthen it with foam.
  The flange(?) we made on the bad hull is about 2,5 cm.
  Using the old deck as a template, we cut out the foam minus
  the 2,5 cm on all edges.
  
  
  
  Again, we used the sound hull as a mould and soaked the
  foam with epoxy.
  
  
  
  We did put the glas deck on the foam and pushed out all
  the air between the layers.
  
  
  
  Next, we put some timber over the construction.
  
  
  
  With straps, we created some slight pressure on the deck.
  
  
  
  I'm going to see how it worked out tomorrow .
  
  André
  
  
  
  Edited by catmodding on Sep 13, 2014 - 08:22 AM.
  
  --
  Tornado (80's Reg White)
  Prindle 18-2 (sold)
  Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
  13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
  Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.
  
  Amsterdam, the Netherlands
  --

  • 
  •  
• Edchris177
  
  

  • Rank: Chief
  • Registered: Nov 26, 2009
  • Last visit: Apr 10, 2024
  • Posts: 2524

  Posted: Sep 13, 2014 - 04:33 PM

  Andre, is it not better/cheaper/lighter/stronger to borrow aircraft technology & utilize a couple of ribs/stringers to give support vs thick enough glass?
  When I was looking for a T, the decks seemed to be 1/4" ply, supported by a stringer every 16" or so. It would be VERY easy to make them using thin cardboard,(that's what Nacra used) wetted then overlayed with cloth.
  Wet cardboard, fold into a "T" shape, with the vertical leg of the "T" a fold upon itself. You have then essentially built a structural beam, with a wide flange for the deck to rest on. If you now visualize the beam lengthways, you leave 4" extra of cardboard at each end. The extra can be folded 90* & serve to tab the beam to the inside of the hull. This can be done with the vertical leg of the "T", and the "arms".
  Here are a couple of photos of an N5.2 hull. They used cardboard tubes to give rigidity. The actual decks are pretty thin.
  .
  
  
  
  
  Edited by Edchris177 on Sep 13, 2014 - 04:34 PM.
  
  --
  Hobie 18 Magnum
  Dart 15
  Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
  Nacra 5.7
  Nacra 5.0
  Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
  Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
  --

  • 
  •  
• catmodding
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Aug 11, 2010
  • Last visit: Mar 19, 2018
  • Posts: 424

  Posted: Sep 14, 2014 - 11:04 AM

  Edchris177

  Andre, is it not better/cheaper/lighter/stronger to borrow aircraft technology & utilize a couple of ribs/stringers to give support vs thick enough glass?
  .
  Here are a couple of photos of an N5.2 hull. They used cardboard tubes to give rigidity. The actual decks are pretty thin.
  

  
  
  Thank You Edchris,
  This is interesting stuff and the cardboard tube trick, I will certainly
  remember and try.
  What I'm trying to do is rebuild the deck the way it was, using modern
  materials. So, upperdeck, foam instead of balsa and underdeck.
  5 layers of glass fiber soaked in epoxy is just over 3 mm, this is thin
  for a upper-deck
  The foam I use is also used in voilvo ocean racers, it can be put
  into shape by pressure or with a heat-gun.
  Today I finished the deck and weighted it, its just under 1900 gram.
  In a few hours I will post some pics of yesterdays and todays work.
  
  Regards, André
  
  --
  Tornado (80's Reg White)
  Prindle 18-2 (sold)
  Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
  13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
  Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.
  
  Amsterdam, the Netherlands
  --

  • 
  •  
• catmodding
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Aug 11, 2010
  • Last visit: Mar 19, 2018
  • Posts: 424

  Posted: Sep 14, 2014 - 01:38 PM

  I left You all with a glass deck and 1 layer of foam.
  This is the way it looked the next morning, lots more
  strength but still flexible .
  
  
  
  Time to cut out layer 2 and 3 of foam.
  
  
  
  and soak them in epoxy.
  
  
  
  And cure them on the " good " deck.
  
  
  
  Next day there was a sturdy, stiff an hard deck, its weight is less
  than 1900 gram !!
  
  
  
  Then, we started preparing for the under-deck, 2 layers of glass.
  
  
  
  This is layer 1, couldn't make foto's of the second, soaking gloves.
  
  
  
  We started early today, so when the epoxy of the under deck
  was sticky, we prepared the "bad" hull to glue the deck in.
  Used some other epoxy this time, its thicker and foamy and
  designed to bond pieces together.
  
  
  
  Thats when my camera died on me, but we did the same trick,
  timber and straps. Tomorrow this should be cured and the
  "bad" hull has a deck again.
  
  Keep you posted.
  
  André
  
  --
  Tornado (80's Reg White)
  Prindle 18-2 (sold)
  Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
  13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
  Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.
  
  Amsterdam, the Netherlands
  --

  • 
  •  
• pknapp66
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: May 09, 2009
  • Last visit: May 15, 2023
  • Posts: 684

  Posted: Sep 14, 2014 - 02:53 PM

  Andre,
  
  Great job documenting the repair. Did you have any stringers under the rotten foredeck when you remove it?
  How thick was the deck that you removed? Like Edchris mentioned, mine has stringers about 16 inches apart and a 1/4 inch plywood deck. My plywood stringers have started to delaminate and I am thinking about drilling into them from the top,injecting epoxy, and then using stainless screws to pull them back together.
  Any other ideas would be appreciated. Do not want to remove the decks if at all possible.
  
  Pete
  
  --
  Pete Knapp
  Schodack landing,NY
  Goodall Viper,AHPC Viper,Nacra I20
  --

  • 
  •  
• catmodding
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Aug 11, 2010
  • Last visit: Mar 19, 2018
  • Posts: 424

  Posted: Sep 14, 2014 - 03:31 PM

  Pete,
  
  No stringers whatsoever, just a thin under-deck, balsa ( grain vertical )
  and a epoxied deck with gelcoat. About 2 centimeters thick.
  In the bottom of the hulls a tempex foam block.
  Around the rear portholes theres som minor delam. Gonna take care
  of that next season.
  Removing front or rear-deck is do-able, depending on your space for
  working on the cat.
  The injection-method is something for next season, never have done that.
  Season is closing overhere, just wanna sail this T before that.
  

  pknapp66

  Andre,
  
  Great job documenting the repair. Did you have any stringers under the rotten foredeck when you remove it?
  How thick was the deck that you removed? Like Edchris mentioned, mine has stringers about 16 inches apart and a 1/4 inch plywood deck. My plywood stringers have started to delaminate and I am thinking about drilling into them from the top,injecting epoxy, and then using stainless screws to pull them back together.
  Any other ideas would be appreciated. Do not want to remove the decks if at all possible.
  
  Pete

  
  
  --
  Tornado (80's Reg White)
  Prindle 18-2 (sold)
  Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
  13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
  Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.
  
  Amsterdam, the Netherlands
  --

  • 
  •  
• catmodding
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Aug 11, 2010
  • Last visit: Mar 19, 2018
  • Posts: 424

  Posted: Sep 15, 2014 - 01:26 PM

  This morning, a surprise, A sturdy, stiff new deck
  
  
  
  Its good, I can't push it in. It doesn't flex. Happy !!
  
  The rest of the day we sanded the hull and put some
  epoxy-putty here and there.
  
  After clean-up we gave the deck a last layer of glass,
  partly because the material was there, Partly because I
  decided to save on gelcoat, which is next.
  
  
  
  André 
  
  --
  Tornado (80's Reg White)
  Prindle 18-2 (sold)
  Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
  13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
  Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.
  
  Amsterdam, the Netherlands
  --

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