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Nacra 5.8NA standing rig question, and furling jib question  Bottom

  • Hey All,
    Recently purchased a '95 Nacra 5.8NA. All in all a good boat for sure, but I am coming from a Hobie background and lots of experience on a catalina and a pearson (mono hulls....I know) and have a few questions.

    The standing rigging was replaced 2-3 years ago by previous owner, looks to be in good condition. He had marked areas on the chainplates where to connect the shrouds and forestay (will link into the second question). The rig feels a little "sloppy", a bit loose. The bridlefoil sags with barely any tension to the forestay, but the mast is raked just slightly rearward when boat is on the level. Are these cats supposed to be loose without the sheets up? I remember going crazy tight with my old hobie 18.

    Second thing is this boat has introduced me to roller furling. looks to be the murray's kit, with the harken roller at the bottom that most are using. There is a small section of the forestay at the top that has a swivel between the eyelets. (I have 2 of these, one that is about 2" shorter than the other, the longer one is in the rig now), below that is the longer section of the forestay, and separate is the narrow block with steel cable with bull shackles at each end. Attached to the steel cable is a thin rope which I am guessing the steel cable and rope are the halyard assembly. I feel that I am missing something brilliantly simple with the rigging of the jib, the forestay just seems too loose, when I hoist the jib on the "halyard" (or what I think is the halyard), I run the line through the zipper on the sheet, but I run out of room to the block at the top of the forestay. I do not think this is normal at all, and what is the downhaul for the jib when set up on furling?

    I think if someone has a clear photo of the top of their rig (near the mast hound, but showing that top section of the forestay and block), and a clear shot of the base and how it is rigged at the furler, that would clarify some things for me, but any help or input would be greatly appreciated, possibly someone has experienced something like this and both situation may be from the same issue. Or maybe an idiots guide illustration is available somewhere, but I cannot find something that looks specific.

    Thanks,
    Patrick
  • Rig should be tight.

    From the masthound down, you should have:
    tang to connect swivel
    swivel
    forestay
    chainplate
    furler
    bowfoil

    Sounds like you have the right idea with the jib. There should be a wire turning block for the wire jib halyard connected to the bottom of the upper swivel. I have pictures but can't get to them now, but here is a picture of the lower end, which is in my album.
    http://www.thebeachcats.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=29653&g2_serialNumber=4

    Can the previous owner of the boat help you?

    --
    Philip
    --
  • Does this help at all, this is how I rig my roller furling. The main difference with roller furling is that you cannot use the wire turning block attached to the mast, up near the hound, that would prevent the sail from twirling. I removed the wire turning block & wire portion of the halyard, & substituted a small Harken block & 1 length of Spyderline,which holds jib tension via a clamcleat attached tot he drum.
    I have the smaller boats, 5.7 & 5.0. They both rig the jib the same way, & I think the 5.8 is similiar.
    Use forestay/shrouds to tighten rig. Jib is tightened by pulling halyard,(back down through the zippered luff, as Philip explains above) & tying off, or in my case cleating as its quick, & I single hand.
    I think it goes the same as the 5.7....YMMV icon_cool
    http://www.thebeachcats.c…e61ffa1448a72dee02c3c2ac



    Edited by Edchris177 on May 06, 2013 - 07:20 PM.

    --
    Hobie 18 Magnum
    Dart 15
    Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
    Nacra 5.7
    Nacra 5.0
    Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
    Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
    --
  • That photo just makes it worse! LOL! The bottom end of your jib is so much higher on the forestay that what i have right now (yours looks correct). The way it is right now, with the halyard pulled as tight as it'll go (cable end jammed at the block on top.... not able to raise any higher), the bottom corner of my jib is connected at the lowest point on the furler chainplate and there is a ton of slack in the bottom of the sail.

    The swivel cable at the top is about 10" long, and there was a shorter one with the kit, but only a length difference of about 4 holes in the chainplate, so it will help to swap that out, but i do not think it is enough to bring out the slack the way I have it set up right now.

    It has got to be something simple/stupid that I am overlooking.

    I will have an email to the guy I bought it from tonight and see what he says, not sure if I might be missing some of the kit.

    I got enough parts to get the mast in the air, and i could put sails up and go, but something is not right with the front of the boat, and I need to get it squared away. I am thinking the shrouds are correct and something is funny with the forestay/furling system and once i figure that out, I will be ready to rock out.

    --
    -PG
    '95 Nacra 5.8NA , rule#2
    --
  • That's why I asked about the previous owner. You should not have a cable at the top, that's probably the issue. Curious if the previous owner has actually rigged up what he sold you. Don't hesitate to ask him that.

    --
    Philip
    --
  • Edchris, that is a good link, I will be reading this shortly, thoroughly. A few photos look correct to what I have, that is what is killing me with this problem, I think I have it set-up correct, except that its wrong!!!! icon_mad

    --
    -PG
    '95 Nacra 5.8NA , rule#2
    --
  • QuoteThe way it is right now, with the halyard pulled as tight as it'll go (cable end jammed at the block on top.... not able to raise any higher), the bottom corner of my jib is connected at the lowest point on the furler chainplate and there is a ton of slack in the bottom of the sail.

    The swivel cable at the top is about 10" long, and there was a shorter one with the kit, but only a length difference of about 4 holes in the chainplate, so it will help to swap that out, but i do not think it is enough to bring out the slack the way I have it set up right now.

    Two possibilities, the jib is the wrong one, too long.
    If it is close, you could attach the upper block right below the swivel,(shown in one of the photos) & gain appx 6" travel.
    Second, when you say,"cable end jammed at the block on top..." Is it the cable/line connection that jams in the block? How much length is there from that cable end to the head of the jib? If the head of the jib is up against the block, no relief there. If there is, figure out how to get rid of that extra length.

    --
    Hobie 18 Magnum
    Dart 15
    Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
    Nacra 5.7
    Nacra 5.0
    Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
    Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
    --
  • Quote You should not have a cable at the top, that's probably the issue.

    Cable at the top was the original setup on the 5.7, 5.2 & 5.0 Can't vouch for the 5.8, or other bridal foil boats, as I've not sailed them. If different, maybe a rig was substituted from one of the other Nacras?
    The setup was;
    captive shackle at one end of cable
    cable
    line
    The line went up to block at mast hound,(pre roller furling the block was attached to the eye on mast in photo), around & down to cam cleat on mast. Attach shackle to cringle at head of jib, pull on line. With jib raised, the cable takes the downhaul load, & it is what is at the top. Here is how it would look rigged, jib would be attached to shackle in my hand, & when tensioned is about 6" lower than my hand.
    I removed the existing line & cable with 1 piece of Spyderline.
    http://www.thebeachcats.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=88310&g2_serialNumber=4

    Trappin, look through my album for the photo where a guy attached the head of the jib directly to the swivel. He used a marine eye at the top of his forestay, & a stamped shackle. That would eliminate the entire length of the pigtail, appx 10" in your case.



    Edited by Edchris177 on May 06, 2013 - 08:13 PM.

    --
    Hobie 18 Magnum
    Dart 15
    Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
    Nacra 5.7
    Nacra 5.0
    Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
    Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
    --
  • Jib looks correct, quite possibly the original. The main sheet is newer for sure, but hard to tell with the jib. The cable end jammed in the top block is basically the head of the jib is right at the block. I look at some of the photos I have that from the previous owner and it looks like I have it correct (not the most crisp photo), it really just doesn't look/feel right.

    Here is an odd question which will help speed up my trouble shooting (quite possibly a stupid question). Has anyone put their boat on its side (on land) to mess with the forestay (say you need to replace, or swap out a component for the furling system, etc.) I think it would be easier to tip the boat over, than lowering/raising the mast a few times. I think I need to switch to the shorter swivel (which is integral to the short section of cable i was talking about in the beginning), it is about 4...maybe 5 holes shorter on a chainplate, so it could take a little slack out, and I may have that connected incorrectly somehow too. I will try to get some photos tomorrow and see what you guys think.

    --
    -PG
    '95 Nacra 5.8NA , rule#2
    --
  • I think that might be it, there is just too much junk up high, think I need to remove the pigtail. The original owner was very specific that the way he had it marked out was correct, so lets hope the original owner will be able to shed some light on this.

    --
    -PG
    '95 Nacra 5.8NA , rule#2
    --
  • QuoteHas anyone put their boat on its side (on land) to mess with the forestay

    Yes, that is what I did when figuring out my 1st roller furler, with one BIG caveat.
    MAKE SURE YOUR RUDDERS ARE LOCKED UP.
    When sitting on the lawn, the rudders are sitting out, close to horizontal. No problem tipping it. IF they happen to get moved towards the down position, & you flip the boat back on its feet, you will bust the rudder, or worse,tear it out of the transom.
    The boat is easy to flip by hanging on a trap line, then grabbing the shroud & walking it over. An extra set of hands help, the last few feet the mast wants to come over pretty hard, & there is no "give" on land as there would be in water. Place a sawhorse under the mast head once over, it makes things easier to work on than with the masthead in the grass.
    Flipping upright is easy, walk the mast up, then from the shroud, hanging from shroud with feet braced on the hull once it starts to self right. It will want to drop pretty quick at the end, I place an inflated inner tube on the grass to catch it. You will see the mark on the lawn where the hull sat, so you know where to place the tube.
    One last item, should be obvious, MAKE SURE THERE ARE NO OVERHEAD ELECTRICAL LINES, & that you have enough room to accommodate the mast.
    Go through my album, read it closely, & match up the words to the photos. Click on the photos to expand them to full size, most of what you need to know should be there.

    --
    Hobie 18 Magnum
    Dart 15
    Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
    Nacra 5.7
    Nacra 5.0
    Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
    Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
    --
  • http://home.comcast.net/~…cra_roller_furling_1.htm

    see if this helps.

    --
    Gordon
    Nacra 5.5SL
    --
  • Thanks Edchris, Thats what I'll probably do to figure this out. Gordon, I saw that pic too, I think that might be in the furling link above.

    I am pretty convinced that the combo of components I currently have on hand is just too long for the boat in any combination. It looks to be that the furler kit that was given to me with the boat might have been pieced together. Previous owner thinks there is a another furler that I was supposed to get, but if the furler drum is the same, that is not going to shorten anything for me.

    The furler itself is quite beat anyway, I may just cave and get the kit that Murrays has (p/n 30-5051) and know that I've got one set correct, and modify this set of parts to match (and rebuild the furler drum), and have a complete spare set-up for the forestay.

    --
    -PG
    '95 Nacra 5.8NA , rule#2
    --
  • Got some news on my issue (well, this particular issue).
    Called Murrays and got some good info. Unfortunately, the Nacra 5.8NA has had an issue with where the mast hound was located (they didn't put them all in the same spot), so some are a touch higher and some are a touch lower. So most shops that'll make rigging for these boats will require you to provide the "pin-to-pin" measurements of the lines you need. They have an "average" noted length for reference, but will not swear by it, but the value is 21 feet, 7-1/4" pin to pin for a furling set-up using the more common harken drum. The kit they sell uses a pigtail at the mast hound that is 6" in length, the kit I have has 10"pigtail. Everything is confirmed rigged correctly, my forestay is just long, and the 10" pigtail at the top is why my jib is so low. Have a local shop making me 2 different length pigtails and hopefully one does the business. Thanks for all the input guys, can't wait to get this rocket ship out on the water!!

    --
    -PG
    '95 Nacra 5.8NA , rule#2
    --
  • Ok guys, Shorter pigtails are had and I went with one that is 2" shorter (I also got one that is 4" shorter). I have it rigged now with some "reasonable" tension in the rig. Not crazy tight (still have full mast rotation with out shrouds getting very tight), Bridle foil is now sitting much higher. The jib still sits a little low (have it linked to lowest hole on chainplate), but now I can get tension in it. Next step is get it on the water! icon_biggrin

    --
    -PG
    '95 Nacra 5.8NA , rule#2
    --
  • ghhm43http://home.comcast.net/~…cra_roller_furling_1.htm

    see if this helps.


    Does anybody knows what is the angle for the new butten packets?

    --
    Adam Bartos
    Nacra 5.0
    SolCat 18 (sold)
    Lake Zurich, IL
    --
  • Parallel to the luff.

    --
    Philip
    --

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