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What happens if battens are removed to furl a jib... performance and if not a good idea... what?  Bottom

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  • I have a 6.0NA and I have the furler system set up but the sail is battened. Do I buy a non-batten sail or remove the battens... not sure what the result would be from that.... any ideas or recommendations would be appreciated.
    JJ



    Edited by sailorjack444 on Feb 14, 2013 - 03:21 PM.
  • Just remove the battens. You can add parallel short battens later at local sail loft. You can even tape in some short battens.

    --
    Philip
    --
  • mummpadd parallel short battens

    Short battens parallel to the forestay.
    Any sailmaker can do this for you.
    It's a good long-term solution.

    --
    Sheet In!
    Bob
    _/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
    Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
    Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
    AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
    (Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
    Arizona, USA
    --
  • I just removed the battens from the jib on my 5.2 and 5.7. They are pretty short anyway and mostly prevent the leach of the sail from starting to flog prematurely. You can live without them, but you can get the parallel battens mentioned above to get a bit more efficiency.

    --
    Dave Bonin
    1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
    1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
    --
  • I removed mine, but found that the leech vibrated. See how neatly the jib furls AFTER the 2 original battens were removed, & replaced with 2 longer ones, orientated to match the forestay angle.
    I had assumed the loft would just change the angle of the original battens, but they replaced them with battens of twice the original length. The sailmaker told me that the originals were placed perpindicular to the mast,(level with the water). In order to get the same effect now that they were at nearly a 45* angle, they made them twice as long.
    I paid $145, but that included restitching around the clew plate, & adding the UV strips to the jib.
    http://www.thebeachcats.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=88336&g2_serialNumber=3
    click on photo to see full size, or see them all here:
    http://www.thebeachcats.c…ictures/?g2_itemId=88268



    Edited by Edchris177 on Feb 15, 2013 - 03:27 PM.

    --
    Hobie 18 Magnum
    Dart 15
    Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
    Nacra 5.7
    Nacra 5.0
    Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
    Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
    --
  • what are UV strips?
    QuoteI paid $145, but that included restitching around the clew plate, & adding the UV strips to the jib.
  • MN3what are UV strips?
    QuoteI paid $145, but that included restitching around the clew plate, & adding the UV strips to the jib.

    Andrew, UV protective strips, also referred to as sacrificial cloth. You see them at any marina you go to. It is the colored fabric on the leading edge of the headsail. When the sail is furled, the protective cloth prevents the sail from the degrading due to UV light. On beach cats, Murrays sells the snorkel to do the same thing. In EdChris's case, it makes sense, since his boat is stored mast up all the time with the jib on. Less of a hassle than the snorkel or removing the jib. Others are happy to simply remove the jib each time.

    --
    Philip
    --
  • got it, thanks
  • Thanks Everybody... I'll give it a whirl :)
  • Quotewhat are UV strips?

    Philip is correct, except that it needs to be on the trailing edge, not the leading edge. When you furl the sail,the leading edge is the first part that gets covered up. The exposed portion is the leech, it sort of winds around in a downwards spiral.As the sails winds, the leach has the appearance of travelling downwards,(that sounds weird, just picture your jib partially furled).
    The foot of the sail winds upwards, hence you need the strip along the entire foot.
    I believe you store mast up, but remove your jib each day, so the strips are of no value for your setup.
    They are appx 8" wide & go from head to clew, & one along the foot.
    In my case the sail maker used white, as it was a lighter weight cloth, & Beach cat jibs are small, relative to many of the lead sleds.
    I thought leaving the jib on all season might result in mildew, as I'm no always around to unfurl & dry it every time it rains. That doesn't seem to be an issue. It has been left attached for 2 full seasons with no sign of mildew.
    Photo shows how the leech & foot spiral towards each other. The bottom of the photo is the foot, spiralling upwards.
    http://www.thebeachcats.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=88356&g2_serialNumber=4



    Edited by Edchris177 on Feb 20, 2013 - 06:16 AM.

    --
    Hobie 18 Magnum
    Dart 15
    Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
    Nacra 5.7
    Nacra 5.0
    Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
    Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
    --
  • QuoteI believe you store mast up, but remove your jib each day, so the strips are of no value for your setup.

    our permits only allow for 2 nights storage on our beach... so i typically rig friday and break down sunday.

    thanks for the info
  • One other detail I should have included. The UV strip is normally only sewn onto 1 side of the sail. This means that the furler has to be rigged so that the direction it winds the sail results in the UV strip being on the OUTSIDE of the sail. In other words, the sail can only be furled in one direction.
    This seems obvious, & in my case, (an all white sail & Harken 435 furler) it didn't matter. I just removed the line from the drum & wound the drum the other direction in order to change the direction it furled.
    I assume all furlers can be spun either direction, but if yours doesn't, think it through & make sure the fabric gets put on the correct side.

    --
    Hobie 18 Magnum
    Dart 15
    Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
    Nacra 5.7
    Nacra 5.0
    Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
    Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
    --
  • Edchris177One other detail I should have included. The UV strip is normally only sewn onto 1 side of the sail. This means that the furler has to be rigged so that the direction it winds the sail results in the UV strip being on the OUTSIDE of the sail. In other words, the sail can only be furled in one direction.
    This seems obvious, & in my case, (an all white sail & Harken 435 furler) it didn't matter. I just removed the line from the drum & wound the drum the other direction in order to change the direction it furled.
    I assume all furlers can be spun either direction, but if yours doesn't, think it through & make sure the fabric gets put on the correct side.


    There's a lot of good stuff on these forums, but nothing better than the been there, done that advice and peoples' willingness to share experiences in order to save others trouble. This is a perfect example of such information that would never cross one's mind......until one had done it wrong!

    --
    Jerome Vaughan
    Hobie 16
    Clinton, Mississippi
    --
  • "When the sail is furled, the protective cloth prevents the sail from the degrading due to UV light. On beach cats, Murrays sells the snorkel to do the same thing. In EdChris's case, it makes sense, since his boat is stored mast up all the time with the jib on. Less of a hassle than the snorkel or removing the jib. Others are happy to simply remove the jib each time.[/quote]

    So what is more beneficial, the snorkel or UV protective strip? Price wise is the same cost, so what are other pros and cons? I keep my boat on the beach for entire summer, mast up. This year I am converting to furling jib and worry about mildew, sand, sun etc.

    --
    Adam Bartos
    Nacra 5.0
    SolCat 18 (sold)
    Lake Zurich, IL
    --
  • Will you be leaving the jib attached all the time, or do you take it off when you are done for the day/weekend? Not many people leave the sail attached, in case they get lonely & decide to walk away.
    If you remove the jib, you don't need either. It isn't worth it to try & cover the jib if you are going out again in 2 hours.
    The UV strips are permanently attached, as soon as you furl, they are in position. Can't be forgotten, lost, or blow away. I guess they could blow away, but if they do you have bigger problems, as in looking for a new boat.
    The snorkel has to be put on, then zipped/velcroed as you raise it. Usually there are 2 zippers, one from the top down to the jib lines, & one from the tack upwards to the jib lines.
    In my case it is not possible to stand in the water & reach the jib attachments,(unless I set a short ladder in the lake) when the boat is sitting on the lift, so a snorkel is a non starter.
    Ontario is warm & humid in the summer, not like Houston or New Orleans, but pretty close to what you see in Illinois. Sun intensity is also the same. I have left mine out in the weather for 2 full seasons, the sail seems to dry quickly, as the Dacron does not hold water, & I have seen no evidence of mildew.

    --
    Hobie 18 Magnum
    Dart 15
    Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
    Nacra 5.7
    Nacra 5.0
    Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
    Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
    --
  • Edchris177Will you be leaving the jib attached all the time, or do you take it off when you are done for the day/weekend?


    Yes, the boat will stay on the beach from early May to late October with mast up. The main will be taken down after sailing and stored in the locker. The jib will be furled until next time on the water.

    Edchris177The snorkel has to be put on, then zipped/velcroed as you raise it. Usually there are 2 zippers, one from the top down to the jib lines, & one from the tack upwards to the jib lines.


    Does anybody has a picture of the jib with snorkel? What line do you use to raise it?

    --
    Adam Bartos
    Nacra 5.0
    SolCat 18 (sold)
    Lake Zurich, IL
    --
  • windadictDoes anybody has a picture of the jib with snorkel? What line do you use to raise it?

    http://www.murrays.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/31-24.jpg
    Raise cover with main halyard
    http://www.murrays.com/mm…y_Code=C-C&Store_Code=MS
  • For what it is worth, I think the batten or no batten depends on the cut of the sail. I removed the battens from my Prindle 18-2 jib, and it works great, however, I did the same thing to the jib on a GCat 5.0, and even with parallel battens to the leach it still vibrates. Try taking them out and give the sail a chance, the GCat sail seems to vibrate worst when sheeted in tight. I am going to try moving block position next to try to cure it.

    As for the snorkel vs, UV protection, vs, removing the sail. Everything is a trade off. In Illinois, I don't think you need to really worry about UV damage like in Florida. If you are going to use the boat often, I would just leave the sail alone. If it is going to be a week or more between uses, take it off, it don't take that long to do. When you add the UV protection it also adds weight along both the foot and the leach of the sail, which makes these areas stiffer and heavier. I am removiing the UV protection on my monohull genoa for just that reason, it sucks in light air and is hard to fly properly. In Florida for someone leaving the sail up all the time, the trade off might be worth it using the white light weight stuff. Snorkles provide good UV protection, but are cumbersom, and when pulled up you have to allow enough room at the head to clear any moving parts and the head of the sail. I don't know of many cats that have that amount of room at the top of the jib. Secondly it also adds weight and windage aloft that isn't helping you sail. If you use the zipper type, there is always the question of zippers jamming part way up. For what it is worth?



    Edited by Deuce on Mar 13, 2013 - 07:42 AM.
  • a used sock currently on ebay.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/J…h=item338078393f&vxp=mtr

    new socks on ebay.
    http://www.ebay.com/sch/i…nkw=jib+snorkel&_sacat=0

    i've used one from 'racedaytramp' and they're very good. wrap some line around it to reduce flogging.
    http://www.flickr.com/pho…57626841276661/lightbox/
    j

    --
    Aquacat 12 (sold)...'87 Nacra 5.8 (sold)...'03 Nacra Inter18 (sold)
    Venture 15 (sold)....'89 Nacra 5.8 (sold)...'91 Nacra 5.8NA (sold)
    '99 Nacra Inter20 (sold)
    --
  • QuoteFor what it is worth, I think the batten or no batten depends on the cut of the sail. I removed the battens from my Prindle 18-2 jib, and it works great, however, I did the same thing to the jib on a GCat 5.0, and even with parallel battens to the leach it still vibrates.


    in my experience ... if the jib is the correct sail for the cat, most new jibs don't need battens. Only after they become used, broken in, and even a bit blown out is when the battens are needed to reduce flogging on the leach of the sail.

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