Well I went out and bought an 83' Prindle 16 a few weeks ago. I even took out a checklist with me. Asked the owner all the questions etc... I felt up and down the boat.. Pressed hard in areas.. Everything checked out, so I took her home.
Today, as I was prepping the trailer for a trip to the coast, I noticed some tiny bubbles on the inside of one of the hulls. I immediately got the oh "shoot" feeling and pressed in the area.. Sure enough i felt it give in a little --- and a sort of crunchy noise. The area is about 6" in diameter on the inside of the starboard bow. But the bubbles extend out in an area of probably 1.5 sq ft. I then went over the entire boat while watching the sun gleam off the gel coat.. and sure enough found a couple of other soft spots with tiny bubbles.
I have read online about a bunch of hobie repairs, but I am not sure if the prindle is the same. Should I drill spaced holes in the areas and inject epoxy? How far do I drill? What kind of epoxy?
I did a search for Prindle soft hulls, but couldn't find a whole lot specific to Prindle.
I guess I learned my lesson on this deal haha.
My father told me the other day ( after I said something about him knowing everything) that "I messed up a lot in life to get this smart."
Maybe that'll be me one day haha. (i'm 19)
Any information is appreciated
Thanks,
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83' - Prindle 16
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Prindle 16 soft hulls.
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Posted: Nov 10, 2010 - 05:01 PM
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Posted: Nov 10, 2010 - 06:26 PM
Prindle and Hobie both foam cor sandwiched between fiberglass fixed either is more or less the same process. I have never done however. There is some article in the tech help gallery but is on the decks no the hulls. process may be the same but i don't want to lead you astray.
http://www.thebeachcats.c…e6ffa5422bfd1feac40af0bd
If you can fix it definitely do if not take good care of it now you have it and and sail it till the hulls fall off.
How much did you pay for it?
Edited by Quarath on Nov 10, 2010 - 04:29 PM.
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
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Posted: Nov 11, 2010 - 12:02 AM
I will probably end up fixing it. I am not too afraid of fiberglass and getting my hands dirty in general. I've been around boats all of my life -- however this is my first sailboat repair experience.
I called my dad up today to lay the news on him.. Some drawn out silence in a few places.. but he gave me the okay to fix it. I think he is as anxious as I to see it in the water.
Some lady had it about 45min away from me. Apparently she had a H14 20 years ago that she turtled ~12miles offshore with her boyfriend. They couldn't get it back over so they swam back to shore. I believe she said it took them 9 hours to get back in. --- Overall it was just some traumatic event that scared her enough to never sail the Prindle. She said she picked it up from a friend nearly 10 years ago because she thought that one day she would go back out.
Not sure if what she said is true.. but it was an entertaining story hah.
I paid 700 for it. At the time, I thought it was a decent deal. The sails are very crisp and still bright in color. Has a double trap and 2 harnesses. All of the stainless cables are in good shape etc...The bottoms are still full of gel-coat with only a couple minor scratches in the hulls...Everything besides the hulls were stored inside her garage.
I did already buy decals, rope, batten caps, new tramp lines. Basically all of the non-stainless parts of the rigging.
So I am sitting at about $900 currently.. My goal was to keep it under $1000, but that has changed haha.
It looks like I am in the market for some epoxy and paint in my near future.
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83' - Prindle 16
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Posted: Nov 11, 2010 - 09:28 AM
this is right up your alley:http://www.thebeachcats.c…a6cdcad5851e912af6ee8575
Edited by coastrat on Nov 11, 2010 - 07:29 AM.
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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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Posted: Nov 11, 2010 - 10:54 AM
Looking at my P18 hulls through the inspection ports, I don't think there is any foam sandwich core on the sides, it looks like it is just resin & cloth laid up in layers. Can anyone verify this please, do the Prindles have foam sandwich cores on the sides of their hulls? cause if they don't then I would not waste time and money on the epoxy injection method.
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Posted: Nov 11, 2010 - 11:11 AM
yes, foam core sides...injection works great, don't drill through both layers of glass, only drill less than a 1/4 inch into the hull.
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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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Posted: Nov 11, 2010 - 01:20 PM
Well upon further inspection, I have found the inside of the starboard hull to be pretty bad.
It looks like I will have to do nearly the entire upper ~6 inches of the hull for a good portion of the boat... as well as a ~16" diameter area near the bow. The outsides of the hulls do not appear to have any delamination though. Maybe the previous owners only waxed the outside? At least it will make getting away with not seeing the repairs easier.
Ironically, the port hull has just a 4" by 8" area at the bow.
What happens if I inject the epoxy in an area that is not delaminated? I feel like it is sort of a hit and miss game with getting the "feeling" of delamination. I know the crunchy sound is delamination for sure, but how far out around that area should I go?
Thanks,
Mace
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83' - Prindle 16
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Posted: Nov 12, 2010 - 12:34 AM
MaceThebeachcats also has a classified section you might find a good used hull for sale. -
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Posted: Nov 12, 2010 - 12:26 PM
you can repair large sections of hulls and deck lids with injection...you can use standard resin(3m/bondo) just start at the bottom and work your way up. the inside of the hulls take a beating when the previous owners filpped alot, climbing on and standing on them as they bounce and lean trying to right. don't be afraid to tackle this, start with the smaller repairs first to get the feel of it. the repaired areas are stronger than the surrounding areas when finished. i fixed several soft spots some of which were 3 1/2 ' by 1' and one that was the size of a small pizza.
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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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Posted: Nov 12, 2010 - 12:27 PM
you can repair large sections of hulls and deck lids with injection...you can use standard resin(3m/bondo) just start at the bottom and work your way up. the inside of the hulls take a beating when the previous owners filpped alot, climbing on and standing on them as they bounce and lean trying to right. don't be afraid to tackle this, start with the smaller repairs first to get the feel of it. the repaired areas are stronger than the surrounding areas when finished. i fixed several soft spots some of which were 3 1/2 ' by 1' and one that was the size of a small pizza.
here is all the stuff for your repair...hollar back if your feeling frisky and want to try!...you can do this!
Edited by coastrat on Nov 12, 2010 - 10:43 AM.
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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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Posted: Nov 14, 2010 - 01:10 AM
All the older boats are going thru these same type repairs.
I can add to help keep the inside of the hulls in good shape is to avoid condensation in every form.
If you have deck ports, leave them off and open until time to launch boat.
Add a screen to keep out the bugs/leaves.
The amont of rain that gets in thru the open ports is nothing compared to the condensation.
The rain will only go to the bottom, but condensation goes 360^, in all areas and layers of the hull.
I was amazed at how much water was absorbed into the foam cores, and the weight it added.
I put a small computer fan in one port, (mine has two ports in each hull) and let it run a few days.
When you look in the ports, you may be seeing the foam cores, as it looks like fiberglass too, since it has a layer on both sides.
Mine don't start with the foam until a few inches up the sides.
You now have a boat that is very interesting in its design.
Each of the many brands of cats from the 70s had some area of special performance.
Saw many Prindles as yours hit the beach at full speed, sailing far up onto the sand...really looked cool in the day.
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SolCats
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Posted: Nov 14, 2010 - 08:20 PM
Thanks for all of the replies, I am definitely going to give it a shot and repair it. There seems to be enough information online and I'm sure if i hit a roadblock someone on here can help me clear it up.
I'll be sure to take pictures of everything as well to help expand the Tech Photo Albums.
Adding a screen sounds like a great idea. My ports have been off except on rainy days. I did however put moisture absorbers in each hull though -- they will come out when I eventually hit the water.
I may not be able to start right away, but she will be done by the end of winter break!
Mace,
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83' - Prindle 16
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Posted: Nov 14, 2010 - 09:26 PM
coastrat has the instruction you need.for about a week I was refering to his photos& product advise .the west system worked awesome the pumps made things alot easieir.Find all your issues & outline them some can be done all one at a time & some areas canbe done at the same time others are cureing.dust mask for sanding & carbon filters for resin apps,lots of freshair. -
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Posted: Nov 18, 2010 - 03:11 PM
I went to a shop near where I live to pick up the epoxy. The guy seemed pretty knowledgeable to the entire repair process and even had a cut-out part of a delaminated P16 hull.
However, he told me I did not need the 404 filler. I told him I had seen everyone online use the filler, but he claimed that you wanted the epoxy to be fluid so it seeps into all of the cracks and spreads out more..
Is this a safe way to do this repair, or should I go back and pick up some 404?
Thanks,
mace
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83' - Prindle 16
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Posted: Nov 18, 2010 - 04:53 PM
From all the research I have done on this subject, with delamination one would not need any filler but just the resin & hardener, or epoxy if you prefer, and you would want it as liquid as possible so that it does fill all area that has delaminated. As I understand the structure, there is a layer of fibreglass cloth and resin, a layer of foam, then another layer of fibreglass cloth & resin. The outer layer of fibreglass has pulled away from the foam core giving you that "squishy" feel when you press on the area. The idea is to pour the epoxy into the cavity to fill the void, makes the area stronger, but does add weight.
This weight factor has bothered me some, don't know why as I don't race, but I got to thinking about the principals of the repair, ideally one wants to re-adhere the delaminated fibreglass layer back onto the foam core. Why not take one of those hangers used for sheet-rock, the one with the butterfly leaves that pop open after inserting it through the sheet-rock, and use it on delam repair. Drill a hole through all the layers, pop hanger through, let butterfly leaves spring open on inside of hull. Now drill your measured injection holes, inject epoxy then go ahead and tighten up nut on butterfly hanger. This would compress all layers together, excess epoxy would be squeezed out of weep-holes, wipe clean, and leave to cure. When epoxy has cured, cut hanger flush with deck/hull, finish repair. Less epoxy, less weight
Coastrat?
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Posted: Nov 18, 2010 - 06:33 PM
I don't think those drywall things are stainless steel, they would probably rust pretty quick. The idea is good though.
Maybe some of the guys who have done it could chime in on how much epoxy they actually injected. I'm betting it wasn't very much, a quart of that stuff goes a long way. You probably have more weight sloshing around inside the hulls unless you sponge & air dry them.
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Posted: Nov 18, 2010 - 07:26 PM
i used some course drywall screws to tighten up a repair spot that was sagging out as i injected it then removed the screws when dry and filled those holes but didn't leave anything in the hull. as far as the 404 filler, i used it on the smaller more damaged spots and used just resin on the real big repairs...i really like the west w/404 though, much stronger.
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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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Posted: Nov 22, 2010 - 02:25 PM
BigMace,
Here is what we did to fix up our P-18 in photos. Its still hasn't been painted but the hulls are solid now.
http://www.thebeachcats.c…748fbdd1a2d159188c4efae7 -
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Posted: Nov 22, 2010 - 02:56 PM
I ended up going for it yesterday.
I found that my "soft spot" had grown since I first found it. I figure it started creeping farther and farther after I initially pressed on it and got the noise.
There were probably two major soft areas the size of a pizza that were pretty close to each other, so I went ahead and drilled holes in between as well. After everything was said and done, I had a good portion of the inside hull past the front cross-member drilled up.
I did have one mishap... I went out and pulled the inspection port off earlier today to find that there was a small layer of epoxy in the bottom of the hull.. I was immediately pretty frantic that I may of drilled completely through on a hole or two... But I bought new batterys for my camera and stuck my arm way in there to get a good shot. Judging from the pictures, it looks like resin was seeping from the very top (where the deck meets the sides of the hull). The repaired area seems pretty solid, so I am not too worried anymore... Hopefully it did the trick.
I still have a couple smaller areas to address, but I am going to hold off and do them over winter break.. I need to focus on finals right now haha
Thanks,
Mace
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83' - Prindle 16
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Posted: Nov 23, 2010 - 10:15 AM
BigMace,
We had that with our and it was seeping through the back fiberglass. I made a video if any one is interested let me know and i will send that thing to youtube.
