Backwinding the jib is used in competition in many scenarios. It is also a technique you should make yourself familiar with as it can be useful in many situations. The most common usefullness of backwinding is to expedite the process of powering up on the new tack, to simply assist in taking the boat through the eye of the wind. To state that it stops the boat is a stretch, and misses the point. It's not like you are leaving it there on the new tack and stopping the boat, but finesse it with timing to execute speed. As Andrew stated, it's timing, a brief backwind only, and the technique becomes increasingly useful as velocity increases. As the wind velocities increase, the technique of backwinding will actually make the tack faster. This becomes even more important when combining light weight with high aspect sails.
Backwinding is used by the best of teams, and for many reasons. On the race course it can be very useful, and is an important part of boat control and management.
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Philip
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Backwinding the jib to tack...opinions
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Posted: Oct 14, 2009 - 01:11 AM
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Posted: Oct 14, 2009 - 04:09 PM
Had to learn how to sail my H16, no sailclubs, no Hobie fleets, in fact no other sailors period, my 1st boat was a H14T which came with the jib and made tacking a whole lot easier but perhaps that was because as a novice I never ventured out in winds over 10 mph. But the H16 was different and as wind velocity increases so does the chance of blowing a tack. Did a lot of that at 1st and learned how to steer in reverse, to swing the bows through the wind (reverse rudder). Then on a blown tack where my jib sheets hung up coming about, I learned how to use my jib to bring the bows around, release mainsheet leave jib cleated in and release jib slowly as bows come about, this I think is what you term "back winding" the jib. I have a roller-furling jib which is a bit smaller than my battened jib and does not hang up on the mast, a bonus. I still have not yet felt the sweet-spot, the center of balance on a tack which would increase the speed of a tack but have minimized the incidents of blown tacks. Reading all/many suggestions on this forum has helped, for instance, gradually/smoothly turning into the wind instead of a hard turn, as the H16 goes into the eye of the wind, release main and use jib to pull bows through the eye and onto new tack, sheet in main and blast off on new tack.
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TurboHobo
H14T
H16
P18
G-Cat 5.0
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Posted: Dec 04, 2009 - 03:49 PM
There's another thread on here showing pictures of a cat with a torn up hull that happend when their daggerboard hit the bottom. H16 has no daggerboard... Makes it difficult to tack, but sure is nice when you're sailing in shallow water! -
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Posted: Dec 04, 2009 - 04:12 PM
I got an H16 this summer, and I've been experimenting with tacking technique. I'm no racer, by any means, but I think I'm starting to get the hang of it...
First, start the tack gradually. Head up more and more into the wind, making good to windward while you're at it, until the sails are totally luffing and you're starting to lose way, THEN shove the tiller over hard. At that point, the jib will fill on the back side. Leave it that way, just for a moment. It will help to push the bows around. The instant the main fills and the battens "pop" over to the other side, pop the jib sheet free on the upwind side, and sheet in on the lee side. The jib fills, and you're off and running.
So, yes, as I've described it you are backwinding the jib, but hopefully only for an instant, and it's not really slowing you down so much as helping push the bow around so you can get the main filled and pick up speed again on the new tack.
Another trick I've tried in light air is, as the bow comes around, right after I duck under the boom I grab it and give it a hard yank to "pop" the battens over the other way manually. (That's a trick I used to use on an old windsurfer with a floppy battened sail.)
Going into the tack gradually seems to help, because if you try to shove the tiller over hard right away you just lose a bunch of speed.
When the wind is blowing hard it's tricky, because, if you're like me you've got the sail out a bit to de-power before you start the tack. The trick is to keep pulling in the main sheet as you smooothly go closer and closer hauled, "pinching" the wind as needed to prevent from being overpowered. Then, as the bow comes around, and the jib fills and backwinds, you have to be really quick to unsheet it, otherwise in a stiff wind you risk getting brought to a stop and flipped over backwards. If the main is sheeted in tight it should fill and gain power quickly on the new tack, and the instant it starts to fill, you can pop the jib free and sheet it in on the other side.
In big wind, especially when sailing solo, it can be difficult to get it right, especially when you factor in coming in from the trapeze, unhooking, then getting hooked back in and out on the other side. But if it was easy it wouldn't be fun! -
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Posted: Dec 04, 2009 - 08:57 PM
Loosen the main as you pass through the wind. If the mainsheet is in hard, it will tend to pull you into the wind. This makes it easier to get caught in irons. In fact, on a uni rig boat, it pretty much guarantees it since you don't have the backwinded jib to pull you out of it. The jib will pull the bow out of the wind (backwinded or not, but more so and earlier backwinded), the main pulls it into the wind. It is very similar to the windsurfer. Tip the mast backward and the center of force is behind the rotation point of the boat, the aft is pushed leward and the bow windward.
I understand the advantage of the backwind for ease of tacking, but it doesn't seem to be required on any other boat the way that, I am told, it is required on the H16.
The H14 has similar hulls and no jib. How do people successfully tack the H14?
I will admit that the N5.5Uni can be horrible to tack in heavy wind and wave and it would be nice to be able to backwind a jib (none rigged) to pull the nose around.
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Posted: Dec 05, 2009 - 06:29 PM
I believe a H14 hull is not as deep. So for a H16 in addition to being 2 feet longer the hulls are further down in the water creating a bigger area to rotate through the water. I think the biggest problem with tacking a H16 is that it takes some technique and practice, just like almost everything. And many H16 sailors are not highly experienced so that makes it even more of an issue. I learned to sail on a H16. Mast rake and other boat setup things might also play a factor.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Dec 05, 2009 - 09:31 PM
Except when your main fills you immediately pick up speed, and then, unlike a windsurfer, you have a rudder to steer with!
But yeah, I see your point. I'll keep experimenting...
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Posted: Dec 12, 2009 - 11:08 AM
I don't believe the jib option on the Hobie Bravo & Hobie Wave have been a big hit. I rented a Bravo, on recommendation from the Hobie dealer in my area. Didn't like it at all, slower than my 25 yr old invitation, tended to bury the bows, to narrow to be stable, & to small to carry 2 adults. It was also very sensitive to tacking. The main selling points seemed to be that a couple of kids could rig them, & you could furl the sail. I asked about the jib, to aid tacking...he told me they hadn't been a real success, in fact he had only sold two with that option, & the buyers wanted to return them.
I am new to cats, so my difficulties with the Bravo were probably lack of skill/experience.
In November I sailed a Hobie Wave in Barbados, with no jib. While not nearly as quick around as my centerboard Invitation, I never missed a tack. We went a mile offshore one day to get into clear air, & wind was 15-20 kts. I tried a bunch of short legs, just to experiment with different techniques. As long as you gradually/smoothly used rudder, it came around every time, & we were bashing through waves that came over the front beam a few times, stopping the boat dead in its tracks.
The Wave is symmetrical keel hulls, 11" draft, but only 13' long, that fact alone may make the tacks easier. I was pleasantly surprised at the speeds we obtained,(I realize it isn't considered a performance boat)& how easy it was for a newbie to tack. You would really have to be ham fisted to need a jib to make those boats come around.
I asked the guy running the watersports about there durability, as I was considering buying one. He claimed they were very tough, left on the beach all day, used everyday by people who didn't really care about them, & the only replacement item was the sails, mostly because tourists "go through them, right through them."
If my 5.7 tacks anywhere near the same, I will be happy.
edited by: Edchris177, Dec 12, 2009 - 10:10 AM -
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Posted: Dec 12, 2009 - 02:11 PM
I am one of those tourists that have gone through a rental sail. I was in Jamaica with my wife at a Sandals resort. I had been out each day on a Wave solo most of the week and was able to fly a hull on the rental, they even set up a couple small regattas so I could race against the employees. Then I went out with my wife and in a big gust the extra weight plowed the bows, stopped the boat, and I went straight through the sail. The watersports guys came out picked us up and towed the boat back in, only asked if we were ok, said they see it all the time. The next day they gave me another boat to take out again.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Dec 16, 2009 - 12:14 AM
On most days on the H14T, I'd say the only purpose for that little jib is to help tack.
edited by: turtlecat, Dec 15, 2009 - 11:14 PM -
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Posted: Dec 18, 2009 - 04:33 PM
I've only been sailing my h16 for four years.. but I've found that leaving the jib cleated until you have completed the tack works wonders! Keeping you from getting stuck in irons is one factor, the other is the stupid battens getting stuck on the mast or on the halyards. If you have any amount of decent wind, once you've come through and pulled in the main sheet, you uncleat the jib and it will pop over very easily and you will be off and running like a rocket ship!
From what I've seen on the h16.. it's either going or it's not. There isn't much in between.
I was in Jamaica last month and played on a Hobie Wave one day when it was blowing hard... we crushed everyone else who was out there.. mostly because I'm experienced, but I bet having my sailing gloves came into play as none of the cleats worked very well, so you had to hold the main. I think I scared my girlfriend though after we rocketed out of the bay and plowed through the surf.. it looks a bit daunting there in comparison to our little lakes here in Wisconsin. -
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Posted: Dec 21, 2009 - 12:48 PM
Funny how 2 cats always constitutes a race!
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Posted: Oct 12, 2010 - 09:13 PM
awesome to hear your stories. I just started sailing this past summer and I found that timing is the one key factor that needs to be mastered. meaning turn the boat in an s shape fashion. note if your going fast than your tack should be fast. ie sailing closed-reach come into the wind fairly hard and your momentum will carry you threw. I agree with the above in regards to sailing with the main. To tack faster, I found that timing and tack primarily with the jib. but know I almost always sail with the main tack 4inch give room.
