Hey Jim, my former Mac 25 used a locking pin to hold the rudder down too. For pins, some people used wooden dowels, Idasailor.com sold a plastic pin, but I found plastic toilet seat bolts worked perfectly.
Keep us posted on your idea.
Prindle 18 Rudder Kickup
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Posted: Sep 29, 2009 - 09:52 AM
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Posted: Sep 29, 2009 - 10:34 AM
Kgatesman, hey thanks for the tip! Brjonair and myself have been working on this problem for a while now. I like the plastic bolt idea a lot. If you are cruising along and get too shallow, a guy really wants something that will sheer off. Just carry some extras. I've steered away from wood because it swells when wet, and could make it difficult to remove. However, now that I just thought about it, all one has to do is cut the dowels to length and polyurethane them. I do like the clean sheering of wood. Do the plastic bolts sheer or do they stretch and bind?
Congrats Brad on the new cat. -
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Posted: Sep 29, 2009 - 10:44 PM
The plastic bolts shear/snap. The Mac 25 rudder was a much bigger lever though than a P18 rudder, twice as long probably. On the other hand, the P18 rudder is a much sturdier plank, factory Mac rudders are hollow.
Here are the rudder shear pins from Idasailor. I think they are thinner than a toilet seat bolt.
http://www.idasailor.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=442 -
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Posted: Sep 29, 2009 - 11:49 PM
If the product designers/engineers had only spent a little more time thinking, there would be no problems whatsoever with the rudder designs.
An example of superior design and engineering is in aircraft or car technology. They cannot afford having any of those systems to fail. A car with doors that don't always lock properly and fling open? Accelerator sticking? Wipers not working? Aircraft rudder a bit hard and unresponsive?
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Posted: Sep 30, 2009 - 07:36 AM
I will say it again, you can fix this problem in 30 minutes or less if you read what has been posted previously. It truly is a simple fix and if done properly it will stay that way for years. Replacing the cams on Hobies takes about the same amount of time. It will work if you will JUST DO IT. Don't get hung up about rudder rake etc. Loosen the nut, dial the locking mech in, if it is not staying down and retighten, it is that simple. -
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Posted: Sep 30, 2009 - 09:01 AM
Guys,
Some great ideas here, but in reality are attempts to fix an existing problem (i.e. bent bolt, worn cam, weak springs, casting slop, worn lines, worn cleats, failing bungees, etc.). I'm referencing a broad set of issues along all manufacturers. The rudder systems, WHEN PROPERLY TUNED AND MAINTAINED, will work as designed. IMO, shear pins are bad idea to apply to a beachcat. Not saying it won't work under certain conditions boat brand and model specific, just an invitation for more problems and to complicate the process of raising and lowering your rudders.
If your rudders are popping up while sailing, something is wrong and should be fixed. I agree that none of the manufacturers systems are perfect, but they all succeed at working as designed. These designs, some 30 years old and proven, sailed by the best sailors in the world, have worked. No need to reinvent the wheel. . .
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Philip
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Posted: Sep 30, 2009 - 10:22 AM
i'm with mummp, the first time you go through this may seem difficult but once you get it, you got it. when i fixed mine, most of the bolts were bent, the latch was bent, the ropes were worn out, etc.. after installing all the new parts, BALANCING THE HELM(see owners manual), and adjusting the release tension with a flat file(only if needed), the rudders work great. the next time they give you problems you can diagnose it and fix it easily and help others fix theres too. you can do it! bill.
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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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Posted: Sep 30, 2009 - 01:06 PM
Just to stay on topic that is exactly what I did and seems to have worked exactly as prescribed.
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
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Posted: Sep 30, 2009 - 05:25 PM
I disagree, First of all, some of these catamarans need more than a simple spring or cam pin ect. This is exactly what I'm getting at. How much money are going to stick into this thing before you get it up to snuff?? Sure if I had a cat that was ten or fifteen years old, I'd get the parts that the manufacturer provides and put them in. Are you going to buy rudder arms and gungeons that have been rubbing metal to metal for years. I am not sure if you have piced the parts lately?
Secondly the whole purpose of my discussion on previous posts is not to reinvent the wheel, but to explain that just maybe a rubber wheel may work better than one made of stone. I can show you a video of a brand new Hobie having trouble locking down the rudders. Watch closely after they put it in the water, they cut the scene just as the guy was ready to bang the rudder arm down again. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE WE SEEN THIS BEFORE? Someone slamming the rudder arm down to get that cam to flip and lock. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w76Dv9uk5-g
Don't get me wrong, I'm not out to bash Hobie, Prindle or whomever. I am disappointed that they were not redesigned after this many years. Like I said earlier, why doesn't nacra or solcat have these problems? Maybe it costs too much to make the change and provide parts for the old ones and the new design, I don't know.
I'm just simply giving fellow sailors who are plagued with the same problems I have been faced with, A quick fix to a problem. -
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Posted: Sep 30, 2009 - 06:28 PM
Jim, your Prindle rudder system fix reminds me of another member who came up with an ingenious fix for the problem of the old-style Hobie 18 rudder system failing to pop-up.
http://www.thebeachcats.c…pictures&g2_itemId=11352
He actually took some critisim because people said "why don't you just ugprade to the new (plastic cam) system?
But the point was that his fix got HIS boat back on the water for a price HE could afford, and it might help some other sailor get sailing. I think that is your intention also, I would appreciate it if you could take pictures of your pin system for the technical help section. I think some people might even do this with a working factory system as a solution to keeping the rudders raised high when on the beach or trailer.
I do think that whenever these type of solutions are presented it should always be stressed that the "best practice" would be to correctly implement the factory solution.
I've owned Hobie 18's since 1992 and it wasn't untill two years ago that I finally had a working rudder kickup adjustment. I had never been able to turn the plastic screw to adjust the spring, since I had never had a brand new boat I didn't really know how easy it was supposed to be. When I finally took the trouble to completely remove the old screw (had to burn it out and run a tap through the threads) and install a new greased adjustment screw I was amazed at how easy it made the adjustment.
A lot of the problems we have with the rudder systems of all brands are simply that we aren't dealing with brand new boats, after many years of working perfectly they wear out, get miss-adjusted, or even just dirty and need some attention.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: Sep 30, 2009 - 07:27 PM
Damon,
I'll try to get pictures tomorrow. -
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Posted: Oct 01, 2009 - 03:54 PM
I like the PIN idea for this reason. I wouldn't want to have to try to remember to put or pull a pin while sailing but I would love to have a pin the locked them up for trailering, even if just from setup area to ramp. I quite often setup in a parking lot a little ways away from the ramp and since the water is low the ramp is dry and you actually just drive down the packed sand and launch but it can be bumpy and always worry the rope will bounce out
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
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Posted: Oct 01, 2009 - 07:05 PM
This picture shows the loop for easy grab on the fly.
Keep in mind the pins should be wood or plastic. I used the stainless,but it doesn't offer any protection from a bottom out.
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Posted: Oct 01, 2009 - 07:13 PM
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