Hello all,
I apologize for what seems like a pretty open ended question, but I'm new to beach cat's (not necessarily to sailing) but I was wondering if anybody out there would mind doing a quick compare & contrast on different beach cat designs or manufacturers. (I'm sure somebodys got a favorite out there!)
First let me give you a little bit about why I am asking and what I am hoping to really learn... So I started sailing three years ago, first on a dinghy, then I bought a 21' swing keel boat, sailed it for leisure, and since then I've raced on a Laser 28' for a summer, and this year I've been racing my own 21' Venture. Recently at the regattas, the 28 Laser and I have been trading back and forth for the winning position, and I've been pretty excited about that! Anyways, I'm moving in one month from the shores of lake superior to the "treasure coast" of Florida. My plan right now is to to sell my Venture 21 before I leave, and pick up a catamaran somewhere between the upper peninsula of Michigan and Fort Pierce Florida (2000 mile trip).
I'm moving to S. Hutchenson island in Fort Pierce FL and will be 2 blocks from two different beaches. Beach #1 will be on the Atlantic, and its a pretty steep sloping beach, I'm a little worried about launching and retrieval. Beach #2 will be on an inner coastal waterway, it looks like very easy launching & generally consistent sailing conditions.
Obviously I'm hoping to learn all about how to pick out the right boat for my needs. I'm looking to spend around $1500, I think thats a good price range, but we're obviously not talking about something new to the market here either.
I'm hoping to hear all about hull shape, buoyancy, and size, performance in rolling waves, at what boat size does it become cumbersome to raise the mast or launch from the beach with two people, even some basic stuff like what are the major manufacturers, do they all use stays to keep the mast up, I've read of some boom-less designs, is that a big performance trade-off? How important are centerboards, with one pontoon buried, do you really need a centerboard down? How important or costly are harness systems, is a furling system really useful for such a small head sail?...
I think I could go on and on all day with beginners questions here (but thankfully I won't). I guess I'm excited to hear what everybody has to say, and in advance, I appreciate all the opinions and responses!
Brandon Rouse
MS Michigan Tech Engineering
Compare and Constrast Beach Cat Designs
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Posted: Aug 19, 2009 - 07:23 PM
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Posted: Aug 19, 2009 - 08:20 PM
Prindle 16 is your best possible choice. Harken blocks standard. Far more volume in assemetrical hulls to reduce pitchpole. Easy mast raising. You have one up there in Houghton, I know because he bought parts from me two years ago--sailing on Keewanaw Bay. Go find him (think he worked at Mi Tech) and sail with him. Pete -
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Posted: Aug 19, 2009 - 08:47 PM
boardless prindle good for getting in and out of the surf and reaching back and forth along the beach
don't discount any of the fine nacras that are also starting to be available in that price range
the classic 17 foot nacra 5.2 could fairly be called the grand-daddy of the currently booming f18 class but is just small enough that it can be sailed solo once you are up to speed with catsailing
a roller furling jib is especially useful for making large sail areas more manageable when soloing -
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Posted: Aug 20, 2009 - 08:57 AM
If you are interested in racing (which it sounds like from your comments), one of the first things you should investigate is what racing classes are in the area where you are moving to. Then you can decide which boat class you are interested in sailing in and start looking for that type of boat. However for $1500 you probably aren't going to find a boat in the condition to be highly competitive racing. Most any beach cat can be setup and moved around with 2 decent sized people. If you are looking for recreational sailing then you have a lot more to choose from.
Typically the bigger the boat, the faster and more complicated it is. You should be able to search this site for other discussions on preferences for different boats. Yes a furling jib can be very handy depending on wind conditions and crew size. Also handy when back at the beach so it doesn't flap around.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Aug 20, 2009 - 09:29 AM
yes, do searches on this site.. there are many discussion about different cats and their pros and cons.
I agree you should investigate the local sailing sceene. talk to the cat guys ask them for rides... ask them everything you can.. -
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Posted: Aug 20, 2009 - 10:03 AM
The hobie 16 - you should be able to find a solid one in that price range, parts are easy to find, Prindle 16
good choice but a little harder to find,
For performance look at the nacra's 5.0 and the 5.7
both good choices if you not interested in dagger board,
If boards aren't a problem the 5.2, 5.5 and the 5.8 are
all excellent choices.
Nice Avitar by the way - that looks like our boat, wait a minute that is our boat and a dam handsome skipper I might add.
Best of luck
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Gordon
Nacra 5.5SL
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Posted: Aug 20, 2009 - 11:18 AM
Quick responses, I am amazed. Also I am amazed that somebody else out there knows where Houghton Mi is on a map!
So far it sounds like people like Prindle Nacras and Hobie!
This is all good information but I guess I still don't know too much about the fundamental differences between many different models though. From what people have said I am inferring that Nacras are more performance oriented and thus expensive, Prindle comes with quality rigging, and Hobie has the advantage of being around for ever (lots of used boats and parts).
One other simple question that made it onto my list while I was thinking about it yesterday night, are there any advantages to having a two trampoline setup for a crew of two? Are there any reasons other than space that a second trampoline would be nice, does it help with weight distribution, or offer a different/better head sail rigging?
PS. I choose my avitar based on mostly the handsomeness of boat! But since the skipper single handed such a handsome boat with such skill, it was a shoe in! -
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Posted: Aug 20, 2009 - 11:46 AM
If your sailing with crew a lot you might want to look at Prindle 18 as well. Same basic style and setup as the 16 still daggerless so less to worry about beaching. can still be sailed solo but can handle more crew weight. Parts are pretty readily available new and used.
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
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Posted: Aug 20, 2009 - 11:47 AM
http://www.sailingproshop.com/catamaran_guide.aspx
Can't vouch for all the info, but it's a place to start. -
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Posted: Aug 20, 2009 - 12:02 PM
no
yes
no
no
haha.. a front tramp is GREAT for gear and if you need to get to your jib for some reason (fix something).
a front tramp is not a good spot for crew to sit (weight in front of the beam will drive the bows in, and make tacking harder). G-cats are the most typically cat with a front tramp (as they come standard), but they can be a little prone to pitchpoleing if not carefull.
another draw back is windage.. when you fly a hull, or capsize.. your tramps can become "sails" and make righting harder or possible makeing a gust hit a little harder to manage (can be overcome with practice / knowing your boat).
I have added a very small custom front tramp to my cat (22" x 6'). on top it holds my pfd, my radio and my cooler. it has a anchor pocket and underneath it holds my righting bag (accessible when i capsize).
edited by: andrewscott, Aug 20, 2009 - 12:05 PM -
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Posted: Aug 20, 2009 - 01:34 PM
I would say Hobie, Pringle and Nacra are the three largest brands (except that Pringle and Nacra are now the same). Sales volume wise I bet Hobie has them beat by orders of magnitude.
There are also a lot of other smaller brands out there if you are looking for older used boats. But the smaller brands don't have as large a following so parts are harder to find and people talking about them are fewer. But again if you are looking to race, probably need to find out what the locals are racing.
There are also others who know where Houghton is. I have some Mi Tech friends, and spend some time in the UP. Wouldn't want to sail a cat on Superior though, that water is COLD.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Aug 20, 2009 - 02:28 PM
Do i smell Copyright infringement???? Need a good lawyer? Call 1 800 call gary haha -
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Posted: Aug 20, 2009 - 05:19 PM
Since you are in Michigan, I would give Mark Biggers at the Cathouse (cathouse1.com) a call. He gets trades in from time to time and might have something that will work for you. -
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Posted: Aug 21, 2009 - 02:33 PM
Are we talking about Beachcats or Potato chips? because if it's potato chips Pringle is definatly the best. Prindle makes a good beachcat but there are so many differences in the end it comes down to knowing what is different about each one and what you want to do with it and then what is available when you start shopping. I ended up with a Prindle 18 because it seemed like a deal at $800 when I was looking. I easily put about 600-800 more into it after I got it. I think I was lucky that this is what I found because after I learned more this cat seems to fit me even better. If I had got the Hobie 16 I went to pick up and then had is sold out from under me I would have hated it because it would have been way to small for me and I needed the buoyancy of the Prindle 18 or I would have tipped it over every tack.
edited by: Quarath, Aug 21, 2009 - 12:39 PM
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
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Posted: Aug 21, 2009 - 03:30 PM
Prindle/Pringle all the same thing to a Hobie sailor : ) My main reason for the H18 was because of the wings. Had a H16 before and not big enough for me either, but I am taller then most.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Aug 21, 2009 - 09:54 PM
This all sounds like pretty good info, this is some of the stuff I was having a hard time differentiating. There are just so many boats out there that seemed to be pretty much the same size, and all from different manufacturers.
Being currently a "monohull-er" it doesn't sound like too much could change between a 16'-18' dinghy where the weight difference is less than 100 lbs. Yet form hearing people talk, it sounds like there is a big difference. It sounds like the 18 was really designed to preform well even with a sizable skipper and a mate, while the 16 might seem weighted down.
I guess especially if you factor in the idea that I will be sailing in the ocean, pretty much always with a crew of two, it sounds like the additional length and buoyancy might be welcome. -
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Posted: Aug 21, 2009 - 10:08 PM
The dagger boards are more important in light winds when the boat would slide sideways with them up. If it is real windy and you are reaching you can pull the boards up to let the boat slide. This might save you from a capsize. -
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Posted: Aug 21, 2009 - 11:41 PM
cats are very weight sensitive
they will still sail with a lot of extra weight but it detracts from their performance far more than on a monohull
the hobie16 and 14 are special cases as their hulls have far less volume than just about anything
i sail a nacra 5.2 solo and it has 20m2 of sail
that's a huge amount to control with less than 200lbs of crew weight so like being able to sail a skiff well you get a huge buzz when you can do it
but i've also been sailing without the jib in light winds with 3 adults and 2 children on board
just it wasn't very exciting for me
i bought the only cat that was available locally and haven't regretted it
i can only advise you don't get too wrapped up brands and models for your first cat.
better to buy something locally where the owner will take you out a few times to show that's it's all there, all works and how to use it
it will probably take you a few years to master it and then you should be able to sell it for close to what you paid and track down something else, if you feel you have to
and like buying motorbikes
err on the side of smaller and more controllable, resist the desire for something too big to handle, no matter how good a deal it looks sitting under that tree covered in leaves with "only a few rotten ropes"
edited by: erice, Aug 21, 2009 - 10:43 PM
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