Weather Helm- Hobie 17 :: Catamaran Sailboats at TheBeachcats.com

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Weather Helm- Hobie 17

dradubois1

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Aug 16, 2014

Last visit: Aug 20, 2014

Posts: 2
Posted: Aug 16, 2014 - 07:36 PM

I have a Hobie 17, ans have had a number of issues with the weather helm on the starboard tack.....it is extremely heavy and, in heavy weather , it take quiet a bit of force to keep the boat on course We ( my boat partner) and I have changed the side stays, adjusted the part on the the rudders, etc., etc. However, it still is very difficult to handle on the starboard, especially in winds exceeding 15 knots. Any suggestions....seems as if we have tried almost everything.......
HULLFLYER

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 06, 2004

Last visit: Feb 24, 2024

Posts: 877
Posted: Aug 17, 2014 - 05:15 AM

Try adjusting the mast rotation control while sailing to see if that helps.
rondog

Rank: Mate

Registered: May 09, 2014

Last visit: Oct 20, 2015

Posts: 103
Posted: Aug 17, 2014 - 07:34 AM

Try loosening the jib. The jib points the boat. Sometimes the jib will fight the rudder.

--
Ron
Big Bear Lake, Ca.
1990 Hobie 18 Worlds
1988 Mac 26Dagger
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Dogboy

Rank: Mate

Registered: Mar 19, 2004

Last visit: Apr 12, 2024

Posts: 960
Posted: Aug 17, 2014 - 06:08 PM

It is almost certainly a rudder rake issue.

Do you have a full understanding of how the rudder system on the H17 works? When the rudder is down, the plate in the upper casting trips the cam in the lower casting and this holds the upper casting down and also locks the rudder down. Most of the time when people have major helm issues with the Hobie system it is because they are not fully locking down the rudders. You will also have issues if the cam is accidentally tripled to tbe "down" position with the rudder up.

Assuming the cam system is working properly, the next thing to check would be the rudder rake. If the helm is good on one tack but not the other then likely your rudders are not raked evenly and the rudder on the "heavy" side is probably raked farther back than the rudder on the "good" side. Rudder rake is adjusted by moving the slider plate in the upper casting and the small plastic screw in the lower casting. Make sure the rudder on the heavy side is at the same rake angle as the good side. If you can't get the rake angle you need by adjusting the plate in the upper casting, then you may have to redrill the rudders.

The other thing you can check is your toe in measurement to make sure the rudders are parallel or slightly toed in. If they are toed out or heavily toed in, that can also effect the feel of the helm. Also make sure the rudders are on the correct side of the boat.

Check out the FAQ on the hobie forum for more details on adjusting your rudder system.

sm
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: Apr 06, 2024

Posts: 7088
Posted: Aug 18, 2014 - 06:40 AM

+1

QuoteIt is almost certainly a rudder rake issue.

I would say maybe mast rake also but NOT if it only happens on 1 side
Dogboy

Rank: Mate

Registered: Mar 19, 2004

Last visit: Apr 12, 2024

Posts: 960
Posted: Aug 18, 2014 - 10:20 AM

Another thing you can do would be to swap the rudder blade and lower castings side to side. (The upper castings are "handed" but the rudders and lower castings are not). If you switch the rudder blades and the lower castings from one side to the other and the helm problem switches to the other side, then you know it is a rudder issue and not something else.

With proper tuning, the H17 can be dialed in to a feather light helm even when it's blowing 20+ mph.

sm
dradubois1

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Aug 16, 2014

Last visit: Aug 20, 2014

Posts: 2
Posted: Aug 20, 2014 - 01:03 PM

Thanks for all your suggestions. We have done most everything that has been suggested; i.e., switched the rudder blades (but not the castings); toe in; raked both of the rudders evenly; raked the mast back; etc.. It is better than it has been all summer, but in 20+ winds, it can be tiring on the helmsman. My boat partner and I will continue to adjust the rake on the port hull. Thanks again for all your input.
nacra55

Rank: Mate

Registered: Nov 02, 2004

Last visit: Aug 07, 2023

Posts: 626
Posted: Aug 20, 2014 - 09:46 PM

I don't know much about a Hobie 17 but it could be centerboard related. Swap sides and see what happens. I had a set of dagger boards that caused something similar on a Nacra 5.5.

You said your boat partner. Are you sailing 2 up on the 17? Adding extra weight will magnify problems.

--
Ron
Nacra F18
Reservoir Sailing Assn.
Brandon, Mississippi
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Andinista

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 18, 2003

Last visit: Dec 13, 2023

Posts: 880
Posted: Aug 21, 2014 - 01:53 AM

dradubois1Thanks for all your suggestions. We have done most everything that has been suggested; i.e., switched the rudder blades (but not the castings); toe in; raked both of the rudders evenly; raked the mast back; etc.. It is better than it has been all summer, but in 20+ winds, it can be tiring on the helmsman. My boat partner and I will continue to adjust the rake on the port hull. Thanks again for all your input.

Mast rake back = more weather helm
Dogboy

Rank: Mate

Registered: Mar 19, 2004

Last visit: Apr 12, 2024

Posts: 960
Posted: Aug 21, 2014 - 03:41 AM

I suggest you try swapping the rudder AND the lower casting. This is very easy to do to. Remove the pivot bolts for the upper rudder castings and disconnect the upper castings from the rudders. Then pull out the rudder pins and swap the rudders and lower castings from side to side. Finally, re-installl the upper castings.

If the holes in the rudders have been drilled identically, then swapping out just the rudder blades from side to side will not tell you if there is a rake difference. However, if you swap out the rudder blade and the lower casting and the problem switches to the opposite side, then you know there is a difference in the rake setting between the two rudders. Note that you may need to re-adjust the cam plate in the upper rudder casting after you've swapped the rudder blades and lower castings.

If you swap the rudders and the problem still persists, then the only thing I can really think to do would be to rake the affected rudder farther forward. It's a pretty simple system, so there isn't a whole lot to adjust. Maybe make sure your shrouds are equal lengths.

sm
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: Apr 06, 2024

Posts: 7088
Posted: Aug 21, 2014 - 06:24 AM

you can take some measurements and make sure your boat is square and level
if one bow is out of plumb it could effect helm and if that is the case... there is little you can do about it

when you sail do you ever put 1 rudder up? if yes do you still experience weatherhelm in that one rudder?

ps as i am sure you have learned being 1or 1 mm out of rake will effect helm and it is damn hard to find that sweet spot and keep it (hitting bottom or other can move the rudder and change the rake)

Edited by MN3 on Aug 21, 2014 - 06:24 AM.
Edchris177

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Registered: Nov 26, 2009

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Posts: 2524
Posted: Aug 21, 2014 - 06:56 AM

QuoteMaybe make sure your shrouds are equal lengths.

What you are doing is making sure the mast is vertical. You don't have to drop the mast. float the boat, on a calm day. Place carpenters level across the front beam, then slide a bit of weight around to get the beam level. It won't take much.
Now place the level against the mast, if it isn't level your shrouds are different length, or not pinned the same.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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