Righting pole question :: Catamaran Sailboats at TheBeachcats.com

Welcome anonymous guest

Please Support
TheBeachcats.com

Righting pole question

phantom917

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Aug 20, 2012

Last visit: Jan 29, 2014

Posts: 48
Posted: Jan 26, 2014 - 05:57 PM

A righting pole by Techofiber came with my boat. There is no information on their website on how to install. One end looks like it bolts to the boat.

I don't know if this bolts to the bottom of the v-bar on the dolphin striker or to the bottom of the front crossbeam. I'm not sure I'm comfortable drilling into either, as I don't want to compromise the structural integrity of each.

The other end has a line wrapped around it that ends in an eye strap.

I'm guessing this is hooked back into the boat somewhere, but most of the videos I've searched show a line attached fore and aft making a "V" so the pole doesn't rock. Lastly, the end of the pole looks like it has a smaller tube telescoped inside of the larger one. I've tried twisting it to loosen, but no joy.

Any suggestions on how to assemble and route the line?

Thanks,

--
Bill
Nacra 5.5 SL
Redondo Beach, CA
--
gahamby

Rank: Mate

Registered: Feb 05, 2011

Last visit: Jun 15, 2021

Posts: 575
Posted: Jan 26, 2014 - 06:31 PM

Mos def to the front crossbeam. A PB Blaster treatment will probably loosen up the telescope fitting.

--
'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
--
Edchris177

Rank: Chief

Registered: Nov 26, 2009

Last visit: Apr 10, 2024

Posts: 2524
Posted: Jan 26, 2014 - 07:25 PM

Bill,may I make a suggestion.
Each time you post a photo, you appear to be creating an entirely new album. This will quickly clutter up the page with dozens of albums, containing 1 photo each, instead of 1 album with your entire boat contained within.
Instead, log-in, open your previous album, then select ADD ITEMS.
Simply add the photos you want, with captions, then save. This will add them all to your one members album. You can rearrange the order, edit captions etc.
Do this, then delete the orphans that only have a single photo.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--
phantom917

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Aug 20, 2012

Last visit: Jan 29, 2014

Posts: 48
Posted: Jan 26, 2014 - 08:04 PM

Edchris, I didn't know that. Thanks. I will see if I can de-clutter my mess.

--
Bill
Nacra 5.5 SL
Redondo Beach, CA
--
Andinista

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 18, 2003

Last visit: Dec 13, 2023

Posts: 880
Posted: Jan 26, 2014 - 08:22 PM

There are two kinds of righting poles: mounted at the center of the front beam or at the daggerboard well. I think "Hobie Gary" is the precursor of the latter. I like more the daggerboard mounted, though it might be harder to recover and store after righting. The big advantage is that you walk above it, instead of hanging from it, which appears to be less effective or require more length. I think you normally use hands and legs to go out hanging from the pole and therefore your center of mass is not totally out. Or if you just hang from the hands, you need to set it with a good angle to avoid that your legs touch the water too soon. On the daggerboard mounted you sit on it and walk backwards, with your center of mass a bit more out and also in a much more comfortable and stable position..
Here is a good version of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTRS5pTZGV4

Instead of inserting anything to the daggerboard well, I did a very simple version: just a loop with a strap at the base of the pole, to put the daggerboard in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKuSSZ7JxBA

Really easy to do, with just a couple rivets and washers. I think this method requires a few more cm of length and would probably not be possible to store along the beam. I store it below the tramp, along one of the hulls. If stored centered on the tramp (like you should with the poles mounted at the center of the beam), it is a bit painful to walk on it when you forget it's there, either when sailing or when raising the mast.

Windsurf masts are more resistant than aluminum poles, my first one was aluminum and it broke at the first trial..

Edited by Andinista on Jan 26, 2014 - 08:27 PM.
phantom917

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Aug 20, 2012

Last visit: Jan 29, 2014

Posts: 48
Posted: Jan 26, 2014 - 08:36 PM

Hmmm...I have an old windsurf mast that I'm not using. Let me think about that.

Edchris, I cleaned up my album mess. Mea culpa.

--
Bill
Nacra 5.5 SL
Redondo Beach, CA
--
davefarmer

Rank: Mate

Registered: Oct 26, 2002

Last visit: Sep 23, 2019

Posts: 390
Posted: Jan 26, 2014 - 10:02 PM

The righting pole on my Stealth is attached to the aft side of the main beam, on center. Mine extends a couple of inches aft of the rear beam, and is secured with small dia. bungie, which allows for quick deployment and reattachment after righting, as well as letting the pole deflect downward when it's stepped on from above the tramp when crossing.

I've got four loops of vectran around the ends of the beams where they meet the hulls, and on the ends of the two lines off the outboard end of the pole, are a couple of snaps that clip to the appropriate loops, one line is shorter than the other, keeping the pole tip more forward than if they were equal length(which keeps my righting force more in line with the mast). The length of these lines keeps the pole tip well above the centerline plane, and I hang from the very end with my hands, and wrap my legs around the pole to keep myself out of the water.

When the boat is righted, I quickly unsnap the two lines from the loops, and when the boat starts moving fwd, the pole trails aft, and I can reach down and grab it and flip the loop of shock cord over the end. I usually just pull the lines up over the rear beam and clip them to the tramp lacing somewhere until I can park the boat and tidy things up.

My pole is a carbon windsurf mast with a fairly std universal joint, and a metal brkt like the one you have pictured, held to the main beam with a couple of small dia s.s. rivets. I doubt drilling these two holes has a significant impact on the beam strength.

I also had one of Gary's Solo Rights for the F18HT, and it worked well too, slightly more effort to re stow.

Dave

Edited by davefarmer on Jan 26, 2014 - 08:04 PM.
Edchris177

Rank: Chief

Registered: Nov 26, 2009

Last visit: Apr 10, 2024

Posts: 2524
Posted: Jan 26, 2014 - 10:33 PM

QuoteEdchris, I cleaned up my album mess.

Excellent, just remember that by deleting the other albums, you have broken the links to the other photos in your previous posts.
You can add those photos to your remaining album, then edit your posts & change the links to the new album...that will assist anyone reading the old posts & perhaps wanting to reply.

QuoteI've got four loops of vectran around the ends of the beams where they meet the hulls, and on the ends of the two lines off the outboard end of the pole, are a couple of snaps that clip to the appropriate loops, one line is shorter than the other, keeping the pole tip more forward than if they were equal length

Dave, do you happen to have a photo of your setup?
I'm thinking of a pole for the 5.7 & need to design a system for the 6XL. It has a 10' beam, the upper hull would be above my reach when on its side.
It would probably be easier to sail it more conservatively & never dump it,...nah, don't see that happening!

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--
phantom917

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Aug 20, 2012

Last visit: Jan 29, 2014

Posts: 48
Posted: Jan 26, 2014 - 11:28 PM

QuoteDave, do you happen to have a photo of your setup?

Yeah, I'd like to see that set-up too. I'm curious as to how the lines stay attached to the end of the pole and don't slide all over the place. Is there a hole or eye bolt on the end of the pole? The rest of it I understand.

Thanks,

--
Bill
Nacra 5.5 SL
Redondo Beach, CA
--
Andinista

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 18, 2003

Last visit: Dec 13, 2023

Posts: 880
Posted: Jan 27, 2014 - 07:22 AM

Something I didn't like about the Hobie Gary pole was dealing with the ropes: having to unroll and attach each end, and then store everything without making a mess..

So I came up with a solution, a bit overdone I must admit, but it works perfectly:

Probably the line to support the center of the pole is unnecessary, but that's where my first pole broke..
So all I do is detaching the pole, inserting the daggerboard through the loop and attaching the carabiner to a little loop on the upper rope (set up in advance), at the corresponding side.
These loops on the rope have to go through the rings on both ends of the front beam, when changing the side of use of the pole. That's why they are rings and not pulleys.

Edited by Andinista on Jan 27, 2014 - 07:59 AM.
Andinista

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 18, 2003

Last visit: Dec 13, 2023

Posts: 880
Posted: Jan 27, 2014 - 08:16 AM

It is not a bad idea to keep a righting line too. It's easier to grab that line, particularly when the boat starts to come up. Also it allows you to use small diameter rope for the rest of the set up. I just tie the righting line to the center of the front beam. For me it is also a towing line (good to have one) and quick tie down for trailering around the beach. I store it either on a bag on the tramp or I run it forward trough the hole at the middle of the bow foil, back to the beam and tie it there. This is the towing set up (not a good idea to tow directly from the front beam).

Edited by Andinista on Jan 27, 2014 - 08:18 AM.
windadict

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 27, 2011

Last visit: Jun 15, 2015

Posts: 153
Posted: Jan 27, 2014 - 11:47 PM

davefarmer
I've got four loops of vectran around the ends of the beams where they meet the hulls, and on the ends of the two lines off the outboard end of the pole, are a couple of snaps that clip to the appropriate loops, one line is shorter than the other, keeping the pole tip more forward than if they were equal length(which keeps my righting force more in line with the mast). The length of these lines keeps the pole tip well above the centerline plane, and I hang from the very end with my hands, and wrap my legs around the pole to keep myself out of the water...

...My pole is a carbon windsurf mast with a fairly std universal joint, and a metal brkt like the one you have pictured, held to the main beam with a couple of small dia s.s. rivets. I doubt drilling these two holes has a significant impact on the beam strength.

I also had one of Gary's Solo Rights for the F18HT, and it worked well too, slightly more effort to re stow.

DaveEdited by davefarmer on Jan 26, 2014 - 08:04 PM.

I use very similar setup. I attached the mounting bracket like yours to the aft side of front cross beam. To do that, I manufactured 3/4"W x 1/2"H x 6"L aluminum bracket with 2 threaded holes. I used a sail batten to push it inside the cross beam in premeasured position. I drilled 2 thru holes into the cross beam. Then I simply bolted with 5/16 screws (I also used LockTite on the threads).

Daves set up I think is similar or the same to this one:
http://thebeachcats.com/pictures/?g2_itemId=79873

I also use the vectran line, spread from the end of the pole to end of the front cross beam (eyelet) to other end of the cross beam (another eyelet) and back to the end of the pole (eyelet). I don't use clips, I riveted a cleat to the end of the pole, which allows me to move the pole up, parrallel to the mast.
I also have another line with bungee at the of the pole and secured to the back cross beam to pull the pole up from the trampoline. The extra line is stored in the trampoline lacing.

Edited by windadict on Jan 27, 2014 - 11:54 PM.

--
Adam Bartos
Nacra 5.0
SolCat 18 (sold)
Lake Zurich, IL
--
Andinista

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 18, 2003

Last visit: Dec 13, 2023

Posts: 880
Posted: Jan 28, 2014 - 08:41 AM

windadict
davefarmer
I've got four loops of vectran around the ends of the beams where they meet the hulls, and on the ends of the two lines off the outboard end of the pole, are a couple of snaps that clip to the appropriate loops, one line is shorter than the other, keeping the pole tip more forward than if they were equal length(which keeps my righting force more in line with the mast). The length of these lines keeps the pole tip well above the centerline plane, and I hang from the very end with my hands, and wrap my legs around the pole to keep myself out of the water...

...My pole is a carbon windsurf mast with a fairly std universal joint, and a metal brkt like the one you have pictured, held to the main beam with a couple of small dia s.s. rivets. I doubt drilling these two holes has a significant impact on the beam strength.

I also had one of Gary's Solo Rights for the F18HT, and it worked well too, slightly more effort to re stow.

DaveEdited by davefarmer on Jan 26, 2014 - 08:04 PM.

I use very similar setup. I attached the mounting bracket like yours to the aft side of front cross beam. To do that, I manufactured 3/4"W x 1/2"H x 6"L aluminum bracket with 2 threaded holes. I used a sail batten to push it inside the cross beam in premeasured position. I drilled 2 thru holes into the cross beam. Then I simply bolted with 5/16 screws (I also used LockTite on the threads).

Daves set up I think is similar or the same to this one:
http://thebeachcats.com/pictures/?g2_itemId=79873

I also use the vectran line, spread from the end of the pole to end of the front cross beam (eyelet) to other end of the cross beam (another eyelet) and back to the end of the pole (eyelet). I don't use clips, I riveted a cleat to the end of the pole, which allows me to move the pole up, parrallel to the mast.
I also have another line with bungee at the of the pole and secured to the back cross beam to pull the pole up from the trampoline. The extra line is stored in the trampoline lacing.Edited by windadict on Jan 27, 2014 - 11:54 PM.

My first set up was this one too. But the pole I had was too short, it protruded about 2 inches only behind the rear beam of my N5.0, which wasn't enough for me solo, at least that day (its first and last). So before cutting the pole, I would suggest to test on the water what is the right length required.
I also noticed that the pole tended to swing back and forth quite a bit, which was painful. Probably if the boat starts coming over quickly it's not a real issue, what is your experience with that? Probably a righting line to stabilize would help?

Edited by Andinista on Jan 28, 2014 - 08:44 AM.
phantom917

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Aug 20, 2012

Last visit: Jan 29, 2014

Posts: 48
Posted: Jan 28, 2014 - 09:24 AM

Adam said:

QuoteTo do that, I manufactured 3/4"W x 1/2"H x 6"L aluminum bracket with 2 threaded holes. I used a sail batten to push it inside the cross beam in premeasured position. I drilled 2 thru holes into the cross beam. Then I simply bolted with 5/16 screws (I also used LockTite on the threads).

I like that idea. I may also choose to use rivets to mount the end of the righting pole to the aft side of the crossbeam but the holes on the flange are 1/4" and I'm having a hard time finding 1/4" s.s. rivets. I only need two, but West Marine only sells them in a pack of 100.

I will feel a lot more comfortable with a righting pole as 95% of my sailing will be solo. Great ideas. Thanks.

--
Bill
Nacra 5.5 SL
Redondo Beach, CA
--
windadict

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 27, 2011

Last visit: Jun 15, 2015

Posts: 153
Posted: Jan 28, 2014 - 09:37 PM

Andinista
My first set up was this one too. But the pole I had was too short, it protruded about 2 inches only behind the rear beam of my N5.0, which wasn't enough for me solo, at least that day (its first and last). So before cutting the pole, I would suggest to test on the water what is the right length required.
I also noticed that the pole tended to swing back and forth quite a bit, which was painful. Probably if the boat starts coming over quickly it's not a real issue, what is your experience with that? Probably a righting line to stabilize would help?Edited by Andinista on Jan 28, 2014 - 08:44 AM.

The pole is sticking out about 12" behind rear cross beam on mine. I weight 180lbs and it was enough length for me to right my N5.0 and I had to be on its very end, hands and legs. Key to successful righting is definetly proper boat positioning againts the wind and patience. Be carefull when the cat will start coming down and you are still at the end of the pole, you will be right below the hull and it will give you a big headache...

--
Adam Bartos
Nacra 5.0
SolCat 18 (sold)
Lake Zurich, IL
--
windadict

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 27, 2011

Last visit: Jun 15, 2015

Posts: 153
Posted: Jan 28, 2014 - 09:46 PM

phantom917Adam said:

QuoteTo do that, I manufactured 3/4"W x 1/2"H x 6"L aluminum bracket with 2 threaded holes. I used a sail batten to push it inside the cross beam in premeasured position. I drilled 2 thru holes into the cross beam. Then I simply bolted with 5/16 screws (I also used LockTite on the threads).

I like that idea. I may also choose to use rivets to mount the end of the righting pole to the aft side of the crossbeam but the holes on the flange are 1/4" and I'm having a hard time finding 1/4" s.s. rivets. I only need two, but West Marine only sells them in a pack of 100.

I will feel a lot more comfortable with a righting pole as 95% of my sailing will be solo. Great ideas. Thanks.

Bob,
Drill 2 or 3 smaller rivet holes on each side of that bracket, around 1/4" hole and use smaller rivets. That will do it too.

--
Adam Bartos
Nacra 5.0
SolCat 18 (sold)
Lake Zurich, IL
--
phantom917

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Aug 20, 2012

Last visit: Jan 29, 2014

Posts: 48
Posted: Jan 28, 2014 - 10:47 PM

QuoteDrill 2 or 3 smaller rivet holes on each side of that bracket, around 1/4" hole and use smaller rivets. That will do it too.

I like that idea. Thanks Adam.

--
Bill
Nacra 5.5 SL
Redondo Beach, CA
--
Andinista

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 18, 2003

Last visit: Dec 13, 2023

Posts: 880
Posted: Jan 29, 2014 - 03:22 AM

windadict
The pole is sticking out about 12" behind rear cross beam on mine. I weight 180lbs and it was enough length for me to right my N5.0 and I had to be on its very end, hands and legs. Key to successful righting is definetly proper boat positioning againts the wind and patience

With this comment you confirm my preference for the hobie gary style, what you describe seems close to the edge of balance, but with a little more lever arm you can do it easier. My current pole protrudes forward of the tramp maybe about 30", but actually i could cut it more, the required length is just about the tramp length, beams included, but I left it longer just in case. As it is attached to the daggerboard, you gain about the height of the hulls in length in comparison to attaching to the beam. I can right my N5.5 with no wind at all very quickly.
klozhald

Rank: Chief

Registered: Apr 19, 2011

Last visit: Apr 30, 2024

Posts: 1446
Posted: Jan 29, 2014 - 10:46 AM

QuoteI'm having a hard time finding 1/4" s.s. rivets. I only need two, but West Marine only sells them in a pack of 100.

Murray's sells 1/4" monel rivets.
You'll need a heavy duty rivet setter, though.
http://www.murrays.com/mm…e=19-5042&Category_Code=

--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--
davefarmer

Rank: Mate

Registered: Oct 26, 2002

Last visit: Sep 23, 2019

Posts: 390
Posted: Feb 02, 2014 - 07:37 PM

I've been using a $35 drift sock from Cabellas to keep the bows into the wind on the ARC, and I'm really pleased how much it helps in righting, particularly in higher winds, when this 12' wide boat blows downwind fast with the mast to leeward, very tough to right, even with the shroud extenders. Sock stows in small pocket on the underside of the tramp. Great compliment to a righting pole.

Dave