Well, I hate to have to do it but the economy is forcing me to and I need to sell my H18 but I don't know where I should start on the selling price.
I have 2 other H16's and although I like the 18 better, the 16's suit my precise needs better. I like to troll for fish as I sail and the 16 works out better for that.
It's a 1985 totally reconditioned boat. I wet sanded and polished the hulls and replaced the old striping with new striping. All new running and standing rigging. Rebuilt furler. Modified the rudder cam locks with release trips. While the tramp is not brand new I did replace the old vinyl one with a good used mesh tramp I picked up on eBay.
The trailer was also rebuilt with a new axle, hubs and bearings, wiring and lights. I also added an electric winch and battery for solo stepping the mast and reloading onto the trailer.
The only thing I never got around to was replacing the sails. It still has the original sails that are still quite usuable and the rudders need a new coat of gelcoat.
What's she worth guy's?
Selling my H18......What's it worth these days?
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Posted: Feb 24, 2011 - 09:11 PM
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Posted: Feb 24, 2011 - 11:17 PM
Not much, so you should just sent it to me. :)
Actually that isn't too far from the truth. It depends a bit on location but in the coastal areas and great lakes you could probably get up to $2000, a little more if the conditions is really good. In the more remote areas where there aren't that many boats available (like where I am) you can probably get as much as $4000 for it. But recognize that I have really only seen 3 boats for sale locally in the last 2 years.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Feb 25, 2011 - 08:05 PM
I was thinking that I'd list it at $3500 but take no less than $3000 -
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Posted: Feb 26, 2011 - 10:36 AM
i paid $400 for my h18 in decent condition
I wouldn't spend more that $1750 on any h18 personally, unless it was made of golf. -
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Posted: Feb 27, 2011 - 07:45 PM
What are you talking about made of golf?
I would say around $2500-$3000, it all depends on the shape and the demand for them. -
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Posted: Mar 03, 2011 - 07:40 PM
The "D" & "F" keys are side by each, I think Andrew meant "gold".
There is a fundamental problem with determining the price of a used Cat. It doesn't matter what the owners cost was, they are only worth what someone is willing to pay. In terms of volumn, relatively speaking, very few actually change hands in a season. Fewer still would be H18s. Your target market is very small.
Best case scenario, a very motivated buyer decides he REALLY wants a Cat, it has to be an 18, yours is the only one for sale, AND he lives in the next town.
You hold the balance of power, & ALL sales are about thgis balance of power. Reduce, or eliminate any one of the above variables, the offer price will go down.
Scroll through the want ads, see what comparable 18s sold for. Google H18, see what Craigslist, etc has sold them for.
One last thing, only cement a "minimum price" in your mind IF you really don't need or want to sell something. Boats are a toy, & the value of a used toy can gyrate widely depending on the economy etc. Also don't fall into sellers remorse, two weeks after you sell, you see another one go for $300 more than you got. Much like the stock market, rarely can you buy at the low & sell at the ultimate high. In many cases it is better to to get 2/3 of what you wanted, & be rid of the item, than hold out for a golden offer, & still be in posession 3 years later.
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Posted: Mar 03, 2011 - 10:12 PM
I don't know, have you went golfing lately!? Very expensive! I actually thought it was clever rather than an error. Me and my twisted sense of humor.
That's the truth. I WAY overpaid for my 5.2 compared to what it would have cost me to buy and ship a similar boat from Florida! If I had known about this site and had been a little better tuned in to the community I would have gotten a better boat cheaper.
As it is the boat was about $6000, but had a been filled, gelcoated had a new tramp, new sails, a trailor and was available within 25 minutes of my house. Was that expensive for the boat I got, Oh yeah. Am I disappointed that I paid so much. No, it was in the right place at the right time and saved me a lot of hassle. The only regret is that I didn't know enough about boats and the guy I bought it from didn't really either. The sails he made are decently made but dead flat so not worth much and I replaced them immediately (anyone want a set of storm sails for a 5.2 cheap?).
Anyway the point is that you probably can get that price for the boat if you market it right and you are in the right place. If you are within 150 miles of Andrew or a hotbed of sailing with many catamarans hitting the market every year your chances are much reduced. If you are in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada (i.e. a 6-10 hour drive from anywhere civilized) you can probably get your price. A guy near here sold a 1985 Nacra 5.5 for over $5000 last year.
Give it a shot, nothing ventured nothing gained.
D.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Mar 04, 2011 - 04:24 PM
Harsh drew, I payed 1200 for ready to go with beach trax and galvanized trailer. I think I got a pretty good deal.
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Posted: Mar 05, 2011 - 04:33 PM
Harsh, but kind of a reality.
The market for used cats is very depressed. There aren't that many new cat sailors now and in thier heyday (mid 80s to about 1990) there were thousands and thousands of boats made. Most of which were pretty good quality and are still sailable. The number of H16s I've seen sitting unused in the bush at peoples cottages is just ridiculous so you can pick them up practically for free in a lot of situations and they are relatively easy to fix. H18s are a little rarer but not in high traffic sailing areas. So prices are way down. One of the main reasons that hobie sells more kayaks than boats and so little racing technology actually makes it down to rec type boats. I know people who used to make a good part of thier living refurbing old boats but don't do it anymore because the upside profit just isn't there anymore.
It sucks and it isn't right but it is a reality.
And if you are happy with your boat and it was what you could afford then you did get a good deal! The cat trax and trailor alone are almost worth that.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Mar 05, 2011 - 04:54 PM
Thanks Wolfman. good call on the bush 16, theyre all over the place
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Posted: Mar 06, 2011 - 06:40 PM
the absolute top of the pile is 3000. that is with wings (non-magnums slightly more than magnums) good sails, good tramps, box, good rigging (although any new boat owner should plan on replacing any used rigging) and beach wheels. trailers are a dime a dozen. the space to store a trailer is more valuable than a trailer IMHO. POS is 500. keep in mind the market is pretty liquid with boats right now. You can buy nice H18s readily in the 1500 range.
things that de-value:
1) age
2) soft spots
3) no wings.
4) tramp and sail wear
5) missing parts
things that add value:
1) clean
2) spare parts inventory
3) only sailed by a little old lady once a year
4) good beach wheels
a guy on our beach buys/sells 18s all the time. usually on the 500-1000 range and we scanavge for parts to keep 1 or 2 18s in good working order. we have had 2 /super nice/ H18s change hands on the beach recently one was 3K the other 2500. both with wings, solid boats. these were no haggle deals the boats were so nice.
anything sail-able starts at about 1K. less than that, part it out.
why no magnum wings you ask... they break the boat. they put too much pressure on the rear of the hull where the cross bar attaches. put a 200 lb skipper way back on them, go out in heavy seas 5 times a year... failure is guaranteed. the smaller wings apply less pressure. check the load rating of those wings its like 250 max er something.
the good news about 18s is they are tanks and parts are everywhere and cheap.
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Posted: Mar 23, 2011 - 01:24 PM
does that happen with SX wings also? i thought that magnum wings are the smaller wings and have smaller load rating than SX wings.. -
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Posted: Mar 23, 2011 - 04:24 PM
GOLD~ I meant GOLD~ !!!
All good and fair data here from all.
I agree to all that was said, esp location and timing are key and perhaps more important than even condition.
for me, i bought my mystere 5.5 for around $3200 (i have double that it since i bought it in upgrades and maint.) and that was a fair price (to me) for a boat of that age/power/condition/modern shape and controls.
my H18 served me very well and tought me a lot about cat sailing (i was clueless for the 6 years i had a h16)
BUT ceteris paribus: I would not spend 2k on ANY 1980's cat -
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Posted: Mar 23, 2011 - 05:41 PM
The older design Magnum wings are shorter fore and aft than the SX wings but made of thicker tubing and are factory welded together. Official load rating was 500 pounds but they can handle much more than that, the only way I've seen them break is when rolled over on the beach by a storm.
The newer SX design wings are a little lighter material and are shipped unassembled by the factory then riveted together. The labeled load limit is 450 pounds.
Both the Magnum and SX wings attach to the beams the same way. Since the SX wings are a little lighter they add a strut support that attaches to the deck lip aft of the rear beam, this reduces fore and aft stress on the wings.
I've sailed Hobie 18 since 1992 and owned both type wings, I'm also quite a bit larger than most beachcat sailors so I've definitely tested the load limits in many conditions.
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1992 Hobie 18
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Posted: Mar 23, 2011 - 09:31 PM
My bad. i didn't realize the "magnums" were the smaller of the two. Trojan says otherwise and I applied that logic. Anyway, I have seen both have long lives, I have seen both fail. Failure occurs if you sail with 3 adult males shoulder to shoulder in heavy wind/seas, We typically double trap off the wing with 2 adult males and a skipper on the tramp/hull leaning on the wing in heavy wind/seas. I would think the larger wings although you can get further back, would have more wear and tear and more likely to fail due to the leverage you have way back there.
It really depends how you are going to use the boat too. On our beach, H18s are the go-to boat when its blowing 30-40 kt and the waves are 6-8 ft. It's a whole new brand of fun.
fodder...
http://www.youtube.com/us…e=mhum#p/u/8/uX0-OhNRbfI
http://www.youtube.com/us…e=mhum#p/u/6/70lyZH3wGkY
http://www.youtube.com/us…e=mhum#p/u/7/xD7m8Vrbi6w
The last link there has some snippets of an absolutely insane day... 40+ double trap+skipper+navigator. The spray looks painful.
H18s are tanks and if you do happen to break something, parts are readily available and reasonable.
Edited by nhanson on Mar 23, 2011 - 07:38 PM.
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Posted: Mar 23, 2011 - 10:22 PM
30-40 isn't my kinda fun
Edited by MN3 on Mar 23, 2011 - 08:23 PM. -
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Posted: Mar 24, 2011 - 08:38 AM
~~ Cool vids........ 18 are tanks... I like to keep my winds at about 20 or less, it gets to be to much work any more than that, and worst yet when it gets "gusty". Don't ask me how I know !!!!!!
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Posted: Mar 24, 2011 - 10:32 AM
what wings would u recommend to me? what is your fav?
which wings are more prone to "catching" the wave when flying the hull?
and i totally agree with all of your points on h18. i would never, ever, never... sell my h18. WOULD ONLY TRADE IT FOR A NEW H18. and since that is not possible any longer, i will continue to love and care for my H18 as if i wanted my boat to last 100 years.
in 6 years i managed to create a decent spares inventory for a bargain. boat is easy to handle and service, offers a lot of room for improvements and upgrades and causes an inevitable addiction.
we have h16 as well, but it cannot compare to h18 - overall comfort, handling, steadiness, speed, all on h18 side. all except beach towing. IMHO
personally, the feeling of speed when goin downwind w gennaker is better w h16, but the speed itself is not-given the same conditions of course. in light conditions, weight could be prevailing, but sail area may offer h18 some chances over h16. we race them together, and whoever gets h16, becomes an underdog in that race. only w winds 8kts or less, h16 wins. although h16 has fully battened jib (but no daggers), h18 sails upwind better-holds course better w more-less same angle (ok h16 can get a bit better angle), but w more speed. and the discomfort u get when sailing h16 in lighter conditions - me no like. its ok once u trapeze-out, but my arse does not like it
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Posted: Mar 24, 2011 - 01:36 PM
Awesome, I think you indeed may be exceeding the design limits, but having a great time doing it! "If nothing ever breaks you ain't pushing hard enough."
"Painful Spray" sounds like a great name for a Hobie 18. I've been there.
That's a great H18 video, lets see four on board with two on trap (off the wing) in those conditions on one of these new fangled "high tech" beachcats!
Two on deck, two on the wing. It takes a "TON" of wind to put that much weight on the same side. Hats off to the whole group, do you know these guys? We need them on here.
The skipper needs to fix his downhaul, looks like the bolt rope is out of the track.
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1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: Mar 24, 2011 - 01:45 PM
The catching a wave thing is pretty much a myth, don't worry about it. Yes if you fly a hull high enough you can dip the wing in the water, but at that point either you are just showing off or you've got more to worry about than what your leeward wing is doing.
That's pretty much what I did a few years ago when I sold my 1981 w/Magnum wings and bought a 1992 w/SX wings (sold new in 2002). The Hobie 18's built starting in 1989 are the pinnacle of Hobie 18 development, stiffer and lighter, the newer rudder system. Unfortunately not many boats were built after 1989 so they are rare.
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1992 Hobie 18
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