I'm converting my 5.7 to roller furling. I plan on using the Harken Small Boat system 435 (hi-load). I was going to buy one listed on this site, but that one turned out to be the lower rated system, max WL 500 lbs.
FYI after talking to a tech engineer at Harken I was told the only difference between the two is the bearings. The Lo-Load uses Delrin, the Hi-Load uses Torlon balls. He said the bearings were about 75 cents each, & they would do the conversion for "about $75. I don't know what it cost from a retailer to get the bearing kit, I haven't seen them advertised anywhere, but I'm sure you could do it yourself, although he recommended against disassembling them yourself. Andrew, I think you did yours, where/how much were the Torlon bearings?
The Harken site lists the unit as using 5/32" line, but not how much you need. With a NACRA 5.7 jib is there any danger that the drum will fill up with line before a the jib is fully furled, or do you just downsize the line, & use a rope ball so as to be able to get a grip on it?
Do you measure the foot of the sail, plus the distance from the drum to where you would cleat it off?
edited by: Edchris177, Mar 03, 2010 - 07:59 AM
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How much line do you need for a Harken Roller Furler?
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Posted: Mar 03, 2010 - 08:54 AM
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Posted: Mar 03, 2010 - 09:31 AM
yes i did mine myself. it was not hard at all. there is a ring on the top that comes off and the entire system comes apart. I suggest you do it on a frizbee or dish so the balls don't scatter. I beleive there were 40? perhaps 50?.
i think the balls cost me about $15. i think i got them from SAILING SERVICES INC 305-7581074 FL
i really don't think there is a NEED to upgrade (to turlon)... i dont know of anyone who has had problems with the low load. the reason i upgraded was my furler was not working 100%. it felt like it was sticking (or was full of sand). my friend had recently re-done his bearings and suggested i do the same. he also said for a few dollars more, why not get the turlon... i agreed... but still probably not needed.
when i did open up my furler and inspected the bearings.. many were worn... new bearings did the job!
Line: yes there is a possibility for you to over fill the drum with line to the point it's "stuffed" (and wont turn anymore) but with the correct size line i doubt it will happen. I personally am using 3mm dingy control line (robline, dynema core with a braided jacket). I like how strong the line is, and the jacket has great "hold" in my cleat. you do NOT want your jib slipping out when its blowing 40! -
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Posted: Mar 03, 2010 - 10:24 AM
5/32 is the max line size and is tough to get trough the hole. I have downsized to 2.8mm Spyderline, and use 10 feet on my F-18.
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Brandon, Mississippi
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Posted: Mar 03, 2010 - 05:50 PM
Thanks guys, I think I will go with 3mm.
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Posted: Mar 05, 2010 - 11:38 AM
Andrew, thanks for that info. I bought the used set here,(for a fair price, not the list, he is a nice guy)& called the FL shop you mentioned. They put 92 of the Torlon (and THAT is the correct spelling Andrew!
)balls in the mail for me, 45 for each end, plus 2 extras in case I drop one. The Harken engineer told me the 2 units are identical, except for the bearings, the delrin can't take the compression loads, & the balls deform, as you found out. He claimed if enough balls deform to a great enough degree, the pieces could come apart, leading to a demasting.
I think if you changed them out every few years you would be OK. From Harken the Delrin is 1/5 the cost of Torlon, $2 a bag vs $10. If anyone is interested the Harken part #s are 176 & 177. If you go to the Harken online catalog, you can just type those #s in under search. Sailing Svs sold me the Torlon for quite a bit less than what Harken lists them for.
edited by: Edchris177, Mar 05, 2010 - 11:07 AM
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Posted: Mar 05, 2010 - 11:49 AM
great data. glad to help
so u are going to change out the top part as well?
i probably should do that one too.
PS i was told spelling doesn't count..
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Posted: Mar 05, 2010 - 12:14 PM
I thought it was the top part you changed. Good to know that the bottom also comes apart easily.
I thought I might as well change them both at the same time, & only incur shipping costs once. That will upgrade the entire system to the Hi-Load specs. It sounds like the Lo-Load has not come apart for anyone, but for the extra $20 I went with Torlon, & won't have to change them out after a couple of years. Mine would probably last longer as I don't have salt crystals or very much sand to contend with.
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Posted: Mar 17, 2010 - 06:21 PM
Update on those part#. I was given wrong intel, DO NOT order part 176 or 177. Those are 1/4" bearings, way to big for the small boat furling system.
I measured my old bearings, look like 5/32, (man i wish you guys would go metric!)
I can't edit my old post, I may ask Damon to delete it so it doesn't get copied & pasted, trying to help someone months down the road. When I receive the correct parts, I'll post the part #. The Harken website only shows the lo-load delrin bearings.
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Posted: Mar 22, 2010 - 04:45 PM
The line thickness can be real thin if you set it up for 1:2 purchase.
I have this and it works really well.
I run a thin 3mm line on the drum and slipped a tough little bullet block onto it. The end is tied to my bridle tang, but could ideally go somewhere near the furler drum.
The block is attached to a nice thick line for plenty of grip, and that is cleated through a cam cleat on the main beam, where the thin furler line would have gone.
Theoretically this makes me pull twice as hard, but the max grip on the thick line more than makes up for it. Besides I can furl fast in a lull and this makes it easier to furl the whole sail in one pull, with less chance of a pocket forming up the furled leach.
Hope this is of some help!
Dennis
[edited for typo]
edited by: dennisMe, Mar 22, 2010 - 10:46 PM -
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Posted: Mar 24, 2010 - 09:18 PM
Thanks, do you have a picture of your setup? I think I saw a setup like this, perhaps that was yours?
My bearings should be here in the next couple of days, then I'll post a write up of the overhaul.
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Posted: Mar 25, 2010 - 09:02 AM
I happened to see that west marine (at least the one in clearwater florida) had both delron and torlon bearings in stock. of course they were the wrong size, and they dont even sell furlers....
w.marine is good for beach shoes (when on sale) and that's about it... -
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Posted: Mar 25, 2010 - 09:42 AM
west system epoxy is an excellent product...don't throw the baby out with the bathwater!
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Posted: Mar 25, 2010 - 10:04 AM
yes i agree... ok, west marine sells some other valuable products, but very little support for sailing..
PS - the Gougeon Brothers (inventors of the w. system) have a house here in dunedin and i know a couple of the inventors sons... both fun guys, with no desire to do any boating :) -
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Posted: Mar 25, 2010 - 10:51 AM
do they "swim in cash"?
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Posted: Mar 25, 2010 - 10:54 AM
West System Epoxy and West Marine are not affiliated as far as I know. From reading the above it sounded like an implied connection between the two.
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Posted: Mar 25, 2010 - 11:30 AM
the only connection is west marine sells west systems... -
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Posted: Mar 25, 2010 - 11:35 AM
haha not as far as i could see. they certainly didn't have "rich kids" attitudes if they were (swimming in cash).
they were adults making their own way when i met them a few years ago. Both nice guys.
1 did move to Michigan a year or so ago to sell epoxy at the company -
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Posted: Mar 25, 2010 - 11:36 AM
They are the largest distributor and retailer of the West System, and also the largest online retailer in existence, and have international sails servicing a world wide market. They are also the wholesaler through the Port Supply wholesale distribution arm. Even the product name was chosen to benefit from the West Marine brand, whose sales exceeded 1/2 billion dollars last year.
. . . but you are correct, they are a privately held company.
edited by: mummp, Mar 25, 2010 - 10:46 AM
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Posted: Mar 25, 2010 - 11:37 AM
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Posted: Mar 25, 2010 - 12:06 PM
They still stink for sailing gear... and i refuse to go there more than 25 times a year :)
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