I am currently sailing a H16. I am not into racing, but do like the speed. I spend most of my time sailing (duh) and then beaching somewhere. This was our second year sailing and a little to our dismay we really felt like the H16 was a bit "small" for us (tramp size etc). Our combined weight is 300 lbs.
I had considered upgrading to a H18 or maybe a Nacra I have found a 21 SE with a spin for sale. According to SCHRS ( Small Catamaran Handicap Rating System ) http://www.schrs.com/index.php the Hobie 21SE should be faster than the Hobie 16, Hobie 18, Formula 18 and even the Nacra 18^2....is that correct???
Also is righting this thing difficult?
Can you sail without the wings?
Hobie 21 SE...anyone familiar?
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Posted: Sep 07, 2009 - 08:40 AM
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Posted: Sep 07, 2009 - 10:04 AM
I bought one a few years back, I've been restoring it. Make sure that the fittings, cross beams, etc. are in good shape because some parts are hard to come by. A lot of parts are the same as the H18. H21se with spins have oversized rudders. The 33' mast makes it a bear to raise and lower. Otherwise it is very fast and roomy. Wings come off easily, put them on backwards for trailering. Its not as quick as the contempoyary large cats but just as fast. I love sailing it. Look at some of the posts on this site and Hobie.com
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Flightlead Bimare F18 HT SpaceCoast
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Posted: Sep 07, 2009 - 10:20 AM
What do you mean by not as quick, but just as fast?
Are you refering to a 21SC or a 21SE?
Does anyone have trouble solo sailing this thing?
Thanks!!!
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Posted: Sep 07, 2009 - 03:50 PM
The H21SE is heavier than the newer high tech cats, acceleration and handling is slightly slower but top end is about the same. I sailed mine solo once in a moderate breeze and lost it in a big gust. My 210 pounds is not enough to counter the large sails. Luckily two crew from the Hobie Getaway that I had just blown away helped me to get it righted. I can verify that it takes three grown men to get this baby back up. This boat is a lot of bang for the buck.
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Flightlead Bimare F18 HT SpaceCoast
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Posted: Sep 07, 2009 - 08:55 PM
A 21SE is a BIG BIG Catamaran. A local sailmaker and hobie dealer here raced one for several years. He got rid of it a couple of years ago basically because he was getting killed by the smaller F18 type boats and he was having trouble getting people to crew the beast.
My understanding from him is that you basically cannot solo this boat. If you are looking for a bigger beachcat that you can solo my thought is that any of the 17 or 18 footers is probably a pretty big upgrade to the H16 which is a relatively small and simple boat. I went from an H16 to a 1981 Nacra 5.2, basically an older smallish out of date F18 and was blown away by the improvement in performance and pointing ability (would be nice to have a spinnaker though).
That being said if you aren't racing and the price is right there is no reason why you shouldn`t go for it? If nothing else you will have one of the biggest coolest cats out there. I just don`t think that one person (or maybe 2 150 lb people) would be able to handle it easily.
D.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Sep 08, 2009 - 08:35 AM
Remember this boat is 10ft wide and if you trailer it around you need to expand it as part of the rigging process, or drive around over the trailer width limit. So your setup time will be much higher then your H16 or most other beachcats. I grew up with a SC20 that was 12ft wide and it really limited your one day or afternoon sailing options when it takes 2-3 experienced people over an hour of hard work to get the boat rigged and ready to sail, plus another hour on take down. I would assume the 21SE would be similar for setup time.
If you can leave it mast up somewhere that is obviously not an issue. That being said I know a couple guys that have them and love them for their size, speed and stability.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Sep 08, 2009 - 09:05 AM
As for the setup, luckily I do have the luxury of keeping my boat on a floating dock made for beach cats. I have it setup all season.
The videos I have seen on the internet there are usually a number of people on these boats. They are moving at a good clip and the boat isn't healing at all. Also some of the people are standing up and moving around! I couldn't imagine doing the same on a H16 at that speed. -
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Posted: Sep 08, 2009 - 09:38 AM
That is the big advantage of a long and wide boat. From my SC20 days the wider boats are much more stable and handle weight shifting (walking around) much better then a H16 for example. I think solo it would be a lot of boat to handle. I am sure it can be done in the right conditions. I have solo'd a SC20 many times and it is a blast but I always had other boats and friends are around should I need help. I hear getting a H21SE back up after flipping is a lot of work.
But it would do a great job if fixing your problem of needing more space. Many 18' boat may also fix your problem.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Sep 08, 2009 - 10:11 AM
I think that the 21 is the right boat for what I am looking for. I never have a shortage of crew. I don't race, but want something fast. I have access to have this think rigged all season. As for flipping it over, every time I have gone over on the H16 within seconds there were a number of power boaters throwing lines to help out.
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Posted: Sep 08, 2009 - 05:20 PM
Its great that you have a place to store it rigged up. I've been searching my area for some place that I can keep it with the mast up, either on the trailer, the beach, or a floating dock like you have. The best that I could find so far is a park that I launch at from time to time where I can keep it on a beach on the Banana River for the weekend. I'll keep searching. Hey, enjoy your new ride when you get it!!!
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Flightlead Bimare F18 HT SpaceCoast
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Posted: Sep 08, 2009 - 10:59 PM
Checked out boat looks good for the most part. A few dings on the hulls. Also the tramp has 1-2 seasons left in it. Hulls were pretty much dry. My only concern is the hulls had "spider" cracks at the point were the wing posts went into topside of hulls. They might have been an inch long. Any thoughts? -
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Posted: Sep 09, 2009 - 08:21 AM
My boat has some spider cracks around the shroud connection points and the rudder connection points. I think as long as they are surface only throught the gelcoat then you are fine. If they are deep or wide cracks that may require some repair or further investigation. If two people sit on the wing and the cracks don't look different then when the wings are unloaded I think you will be fine. I bet you would have a hard time finding a 20 year old boat that doesn't have some kind of spider cracks around load areas.
They would be something to monitor and if they change next year then in the off season you may want to do some reinforcement of the area to keep it from becoming a problem in the future.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Sep 09, 2009 - 08:43 AM
I need to go look at my boat now to see if there is any cracking around the wing ports. I know I have the normal spiderweb gelcoat cracks at the high stress areas. I usually scratch that area when removing and installing the wings when it is gusty out.
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Flightlead Bimare F18 HT SpaceCoast
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Posted: Sep 09, 2009 - 08:58 PM
I have a Hobie 21SE up here in Vancouver, Canada and I absolutely love the boat. I've been steeing OD keelboats for decades and this was my first cat. I do regular 50 - 100 mi solos with very little trouble while keeping dry and comfy on the wings. The rig is large, yes, but is easily de-powered in seconds. I've been out in 25 knots and find it a simple matter of dropping the traveller, flattening the main and finding that sweet spot when it gets crazy windy. I've only flipped it once but that was on the day that I got it. We had just finished sailing it 40 miles on the delivery when and I accidently stepped off the back end when reaching for the mainsheet...dumb, dumb, dumb. Immediately after that, I took an old J/24 boom and rigged up a righting pole under the tramp which fortunately, I've never had to use in 3 years. Still, when I can't see land, its comforting to know its there "just in case". I can right the boat on my own with this pole alone and it works beautifully when we tested it.
I'm currently preparing for a complete re-fit replacing all standing/running rigging, tramp, wing tramps, main, Jib, Chute, rudders, adding spinny gear and some other customizations geared towards taking it on a 1000 kilometer run around Vancouver Island in the Pacific Northwest in July of 2011. Just thinking of doing that is a testimony to my opinion of the 21SE.
http://maps.google.ca/map…00466354ed6a936d25a5&z=8
Anyone care to join me?
Buy it...you'll love it!
David Gauci
H21SE #195
edited by: dgauci, Sep 09, 2009 - 06:06 PM -
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Posted: Sep 10, 2009 - 07:38 AM
What year is yours if it is #195? The one I am looking at is an 88', but the hull has the number 345 on it....
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Posted: Sep 10, 2009 - 08:55 AM
i dont think this boat is 10' wide either...
my friend has one and he does not have a tilt trailier (it's illegal in every state i know to trailer with over 8.6'
https://www.hobiecat.com/support/pdfs/21SC_Manual.pdf
my friends cat is a cruiser, he has 2 dry cell batteries speakers, lights (above and below the water) wall to wall carpet.. etc.. oh yea... 2 jibs.. it is a great cat... but he is not a racer.
they camp with it all the time and the amount of gear is.. well unbelievable
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Posted: Sep 10, 2009 - 09:06 AM
This is off of NAHCA. The SC model and SE model are different Sail area alone differs by 88 sq ft.
The SE have a way of telescoping the beam (for trailering)....I haven't looked into it throughoughly but have read about that feature at a few sources.
Specifications
Length 21' 3'
Beam 9' 6.5'
Beam w/Wings 13' 9.5'
Draft (Boards Up) 6'
Draft (Boards Down) 2' 2'
Sail Area 300 sq.ft.
Minimum Platform Weight 420 lbs
Minimum Wing Weight 45 lbs
Minimum Mast, Boom / Rig Weight 100 lbs
Mast Length 33'
Spinnaker Kit (asymmetrical spinnaker can range from 450 to 600 sq.ft.)
Thanks for the pic, I remember someone mentioning the lights and seeing that picture. Unfortunately NJ does not have anywhere to camp by the bay/ocean (that I know of). I found one place up a winding river called the Mullica, but thats it. -
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Posted: Sep 10, 2009 - 03:42 PM
I think the SE basically has a H18 sail plan, where the SC has something completely different.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Sep 11, 2009 - 11:31 AM
I know it shares parts with the H18 and H18 mag. I don't think the mast is the same. I was told to make sure the mast is in good condition and if I ever see one for sale buy it.
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Posted: Sep 14, 2009 - 01:25 AM
I was out sailing this afternoon, I was about ready to head back to the park and call it a day, when a catamaran appeared coming under the bridge. So we headed for it then tacked and turned to follow it. It was a Hobie Tiger. We overtook it quite quickly until they let the spin loose and and turned off wind .....I think I need a spinnaker!!! At least I can confirm that a H21se is faster than a Tiger.
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Flightlead Bimare F18 HT SpaceCoast
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