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MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: Apr 06, 2024

Posts: 7088
Posted: May 19, 2023 - 07:10 PM

Quote I doubt the whole trailer and boat weigh that muc

750 lbs would be my guess. 400 ish for boat 350 for trailer.
danielt1263

Rank: Lubber

Registered: May 21, 2013

Last visit: Apr 21, 2024

Posts: 99
Posted: May 20, 2023 - 01:48 PM

tarch
I am sure the Mazda can tow it. I doubt the whole trailer and boat weigh that much. Don't know about concerns with insurance being void if I do hit someone since Mazda says no towing allowed!! I know that most likely I am overthinking it.

I don't see where insurance would care but you could always call them. If your car is still under warranty, that would probably be voided.
tarch

Rank: Lubber

Registered: May 15, 2023

Last visit: Aug 26, 2023

Posts: 31
Posted: May 20, 2023 - 07:32 PM

danielt1263
tarch
I am sure the Mazda can tow it. I doubt the whole trailer and boat weigh that much. Don't know about concerns with insurance being void if I do hit someone since Mazda says no towing allowed!! I know that most likely I am overthinking it.

I don't see where insurance would care but you could always call them. If your car is still under warranty, that would probably be voided.

I am pretty sure the warranty period is over. It is 5 yr old car. That is a good point
texastuma

Rank: Mate

Registered: Nov 22, 2012

Last visit: Apr 11, 2024

Posts: 397
Posted: May 22, 2023 - 03:58 PM

tarchMorning all

I have been sailing a monohull for a year or so. Looking to get a cat

I am looking to get one that is ok for 3 adults at least, not too frightening for someone new and reasonable enough to not outgrow too soon. I know it is hard to give advise without knowing my skills.

I have a mystere 5.5, a prindle 18, a prindle 19, a prindle escape 18 near me on the market place for around 2-3k.

I am liking the idea of Mystere apart from cool name, because of center boards, thinking it might tack better - lay guess, not a fact.

I like the look of prindle 19 but might be too much for me. Can any of them be sailed with reefed sail so that I can keep training wheels so to speak?

Any suggestions or guidance gladly taken.

Thanks

With starting out, I would agree with the 18 Escape; mainly because of the smaller sail plan. I started catamarans on a Nacra 5.8 and Tornado.. But, I had been racing with my family for a good decade previously. The P18 is also a good boat for starting out and one that you can run for quite a while. I currently race against a very competitive P18 and he has no problem tacking. With all cats, it's all in the technique (ease about an armlengh of mainsheet during the tack). The 19 is a nice boat, but the bows are not forgiving when they bury. I had a 19 from 1990 to 2008 and currently have a modified 18-2. In breeze over 18, you need to stay on your toes with the flat decks. The P18 has more forgiveness with the more rounded decks as with the Mystere. The dagger boards are nice on the Mystere, but you will have constant maintenance with the centerboard trunks. On my Nacra 5.8 and 6.0, it was a constant battle with leaks. They sail much better to windward, but it has a tradeoff. Obviously, the P18 and Escape will not sail to windward as well as a boarded boat, but in 3-8 knots of wind, the P18 is hard to shake off. Sailing on/off the beach without boards is very nice. I think the biggest challenge you will have with the Prindles is the rudder system. I got rid of the locking system in 1991 and built a line pull down system. Typically, the horizontal bolt to lock into gets bent. It is not a hard fix, 1/4" hex bolt, and I recommend replacing this bolt before you even go sailing. These rudders will frustrate the hell out of ya.

--
Scott

Prindle Fleet 2
TCDYC

Prindle 18-2 Mod "FrankenKitty"
Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
Prindle 19 "Mr. Wiggly"
Nacra 5.8 "De ja vu"
Nacra 5.0
Nacra 5.8
Tornadoes (Reg White)
--
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: Apr 06, 2024

Posts: 7088
Posted: May 22, 2023 - 09:56 PM

QuoteThe ~~dagger~~ centerboards boards are nice on the Mystere, but you will have constant maintenance with the centerboard trunks.
Fixed if for ya

Most Mystere's have centerboards, not daggers (except for the f18 "twister" and the smallern mystere's are skeg) and they do not require constant maintenance. the only time i had an issue was when i unknowingly dropped a large shackle down one and did some damage when i put the board down. so 1 time in 15 years isn't so bad.
saltlife77

Rank: Mate

Registered: Feb 10, 2016

Last visit: Apr 15, 2024

Posts: 193
Posted: May 23, 2023 - 09:38 AM

tarch....https://orlando.craigslist.org/boa/d/orlando-nacra-52-sailboat/7624251513.html
Not sure how you go wrong for $600 on a trailer.

--
Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL
--
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: Apr 06, 2024

Posts: 7088
Posted: May 23, 2023 - 11:07 AM

QuoteNot sure how you go wrong for $600 on a trailer.

non furling, possibly blown out dacron sails, dagger boards, probably non registered/titled boat

If those aren't issues, worth looking out - check for soft hulls
saltlife77

Rank: Mate

Registered: Feb 10, 2016

Last visit: Apr 15, 2024

Posts: 193
Posted: May 23, 2023 - 04:44 PM

Quotenon furling, possibly blown out dacron sails, dagger boards, probably non registered/titled boat

If those aren't issues, worth looking out - check for soft hulls

MN3...Trailer has current registration and is worth $4-500 alone...I believe this thread started out as he is a beginner.

--
Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL
--
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: Apr 06, 2024

Posts: 7088
Posted: May 23, 2023 - 09:47 PM

sounds like a non titled boat. IF that is important to you, it is a kinda big deal.

If the boat and the sails are decent, and you don't mind dagger boards ... this is a cheap price for a used 5.2
tarch

Rank: Lubber

Registered: May 15, 2023

Last visit: Aug 26, 2023

Posts: 31
Posted: May 24, 2023 - 07:47 AM

Thanks texastuma. I don't have as much experience as you did when you bought yours.

Saltlife77 and MN3, that does look cheap for a 5.2.

Are they forgiving in terms of front end flotation should the bows go under water?

How big an issue is it if the boat is not registered? I plan to run it in the intercostals. If it has the manufacturer certificate of origin or something like that, will that allow me to register with a bill of sale?

Thanks
saltlife77

Rank: Mate

Registered: Feb 10, 2016

Last visit: Apr 15, 2024

Posts: 193
Posted: May 24, 2023 - 11:30 AM

tarch...I am not positive but I don't believe the state of FL requires a non-powered vessel 17' or less to be registered. And NACRA bows are very forgiving...hard but not impossible to pitchpole.

Edited by saltlife77 on May 24, 2023 - 12:47 PM.

--
Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL
--
saltlife77

Rank: Mate

Registered: Feb 10, 2016

Last visit: Apr 15, 2024

Posts: 193
Posted: May 24, 2023 - 11:50 AM

tarch...so it's 16' and under doesn't need to be registered...I wouldn't sweat the extra foot. It would take a real asshole to get out his measuring tape. You will be fine in the intracoastal...just wear a lifejacket and they have no reason to stop you in the first place.

--
Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL
--
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: Apr 06, 2024

Posts: 7088
Posted: May 24, 2023 - 12:15 PM

QuoteHow big an issue is it if the boat is not registered? I plan to run it in the intercostals. If it has the manufacturer certificate of origin or something like that, will that allow me to register with a bill of sale?

There are a ton (if not most) legacy boats that do not have a title in florida.

Fl (now) requires all non powered boats 16' or longer to be titled, registered and have numbers on it - https://www.flhsmv.gov/mo…l-titling-registrations/ (there are a few exceptions to registration like: being used exclusively in/on a private lake, dealer demo boats and boats under 16' (see my link for other exceptions). They ALL require title.

that being said: it is not enforced. It used to be non powered boats under 20' did not require registration (that changed a decade ago or so).

Since they didn't have to be registered most people didn't want to pay the sales tax (switching ownership and paying sales tax and title fees).

I know the USCG hassled a beach catamaran about this (locally) but not ticketed. However it is the law and any pissed off sherrif, fwwc or USCG can ticket/impound if they have a hair up their butt. MOST beach cats do not have registration numbers on them (including mine but i did carry my regisrtation when I sailed).

[quote]If it has the manufacturer certificate of origin or something like that, will that allow me to register with a bill of sale?/quote]

I would be flabbergasted if you could actually get a manufacturers cert of origin. Nacra was sold long ago and the records of that boat are probably long gone... you can only use a bill of sale if the boat was sold to you from a state that does not title boats and uses a bill of sale for registration.

There are a few remedies - Pay all the associated fees and go in front of a Judge and he can award a title OR go to the FWWC and request an inspection (they will do a record search and if it is not reported stolen) and if they believe you, like you and are in a good mood - they may award you a title (or tell you to go in front of a judge). IF they have any cause they will impound the boat.

Of course i want you to buy my boat but the reasons this boat does not hit all your needs is 1. the tramp area is smaller than a 5.5 so less room for bodies and gear. 2. the daggers' are a pain in the ass to deal with, especially launching into waves and any shallow areas. (mystere centerboards can be retracted and lowered by a control line) 3. the bows on a mystere are MUCH higher volume and will save you if they dig in when hit with a gust. 3. $500 is suspiciously cheap for a boat in good order. It SHOULD sell fast if it is in good shape. If you can, go check it out ASAP and bring a check book if you can live with the boards and (probable lack of title).

I would rather you buy a good boat that you like than "buy mine" so good luck !

Edited by MN3 on May 24, 2023 - 12:23 PM.
tarch

Rank: Lubber

Registered: May 15, 2023

Last visit: Aug 26, 2023

Posts: 31
Posted: May 24, 2023 - 12:53 PM

[quote=MN3]
QuoteHow big an issue is it if the boat is not registered? I plan to run it in the intercostals. If it has the manufacturer certificate of origin or something like that, will that allow me to register with a bill of sale?

There are a ton (if not most) legacy boats that do not have a title in florida.

Fl (now) requires all non powered boats 16' or longer to be titled, registered and have numbers on it - https://www.flhsmv.gov/mo…l-titling-registrations/ (there are a few exceptions to registration like: being used exclusively in/on a private lake, dealer demo boats and boats under 16' (see my link for other exceptions). They ALL require title.

that being said: it is not enforced. It used to be non powered boats under 20' did not require registration (that changed a decade ago or so).

Since they didn't have to be registered most people didn't want to pay the sales tax (switching ownership and paying sales tax and title fees).

I know the USCG hassled a beach catamaran about this (locally) but not ticketed. However it is the law and any pissed off sherrif, fwwc or USCG can ticket/impound if they have a hair up their butt. MOST beach cats do not have registration numbers on them (including mine but i did carry my regisrtation when I sailed).

QuoteIf it has the manufacturer certificate of origin or something like that, will that allow me to register with a bill of sale?/quote]

I would be flabbergasted if you could actually get a manufacturers cert of origin. Nacra was sold long ago and the records of that boat are probably long gone... you can only use a bill of sale if the boat was sold to you from a state that does not title boats and uses a bill of sale for registration.

There are a few remedies - Pay all the associated fees and go in front of a Judge and he can award a title OR go to the FWWC and request an inspection (they will do a record search and if it is not reported stolen) and if they believe you, like you and are in a good mood - they may award you a title (or tell you to go in front of a judge). IF they have any cause they will impound the boat.

Of course i want you to buy my boat but the reasons this boat does not hit all your needs is 1. the tramp area is smaller than a 5.5 so less room for bodies and gear. 2. the daggers' are a pain in the ass to deal with, especially launching into waves and any shallow areas. (mystere centerboards can be retracted and lowered by a control line) 3. the bows on a mystere are MUCH higher volume and will save you if they dig in when hit with a gust. 3. $500 is suspiciously cheap for a boat in good order. It SHOULD sell fast if it is in good shape. If you can, go check it out ASAP and bring a check book if you can live with the boards and (probable lack of title).

I would rather you buy a good boat that you like than "buy mine" so good luck !Edited by MN3 on May 24, 2023 - 12:23 PM.

Thanks MN3. Willsend you a pm
tarch

Rank: Lubber

Registered: May 15, 2023

Last visit: Aug 26, 2023

Posts: 31
Posted: May 24, 2023 - 12:56 PM

saltlife77tarch...so it's 16' and under doesn't need to be registered...I wouldn't sweat the extra foot. It would take a real asshole to get out his measuring tape. You will be fine in the intracoastal...just wear a lifejacket and they have no reason to stop you in the first place.

Thanks saltlife77.
16ft is the limit like you said.
Hopefully they have better things to do than harass beachcats!!
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: Apr 06, 2024

Posts: 7088
Posted: May 24, 2023 - 06:11 PM

Quote..just wear a lifejacket and they have no reason to stop you in the first place.

Wearing a lifejacket is not required by law unless you are under 16. Having one for every person on the boat is required. after years of not wearing one, i decided it was stupid and wore one all the time.

"A child under the age of 6 must wear a USCG-approved Type I, II or III personal flotation device while onboard a vessel under 26 feet in length while the vessel is underway. " - https://myfwc.com/boating…%20shore%20or%20aground.

Quote16ft is the limit like you said.

16' is for registration ... this is not the same thing as title (ownership) - both are illegal to not have, either can get your boat impounded/taken away (albeit i have never heard of this happening).
tarch

Rank: Lubber

Registered: May 15, 2023

Last visit: Aug 26, 2023

Posts: 31
Posted: May 24, 2023 - 06:15 PM

MN3
Quote..just wear a lifejacket and they have no reason to stop you in the first place.

Wearing a lifejacket is not required by law unless you are under 16. Having one for every person on the boat is required. after years of not wearing one, i decided it was stupid and wore one all the time.

"A child under the age of 6 must wear a USCG-approved Type I, II or III personal flotation device while onboard a vessel under 26 feet in length while the vessel is underway. " - https://myfwc.com/boating…%20shore%20or%20aground.

Quote16ft is the limit like you said.

16' is for registration ... this is not the same thing as title (ownership) - both are illegal to not have, either can get your boat impounded/taken away (albeit i have never heard of this happening).

Ah, makes sense. I always wear PFD since I don't trust my skill that much
texastuma

Rank: Mate

Registered: Nov 22, 2012

Last visit: Apr 11, 2024

Posts: 397
Posted: May 25, 2023 - 06:00 PM

tarch
MN3
Quote..just wear a lifejacket and they have no reason to stop you in the first place.

Wearing a lifejacket is not required by law unless you are under 16. Having one for every person on the boat is required. after years of not wearing one, i decided it was stupid and wore one all the time.

"A child under the age of 6 must wear a USCG-approved Type I, II or III personal flotation device while onboard a vessel under 26 feet in length while the vessel is underway. " - https://myfwc.com/boating…%20shore%20or%20aground.

Quote16ft is the limit like you said.

16' is for registration ... this is not the same thing as title (ownership) - both are illegal to not have, either can get your boat impounded/taken away (albeit i have never heard of this happening).

Ah, makes sense. I always wear PFD since I don't trust my skill that much

I wear one 100% on the cat and weather dependent on the big boats.. I have extracted a friend that got washed off the foredeck.. It was night and luckily she had a flashlight.. I reached for the light and found her hair... she came out ok, but it taught all of us a lesson.

--
Scott

Prindle Fleet 2
TCDYC

Prindle 18-2 Mod "FrankenKitty"
Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
Prindle 19 "Mr. Wiggly"
Nacra 5.8 "De ja vu"
Nacra 5.0
Nacra 5.8
Tornadoes (Reg White)
--
texastuma

Rank: Mate

Registered: Nov 22, 2012

Last visit: Apr 11, 2024

Posts: 397
Posted: May 25, 2023 - 06:02 PM

tarch
saltlife77tarch...so it's 16' and under doesn't need to be registered...I wouldn't sweat the extra foot. It would take a real asshole to get out his measuring tape. You will be fine in the intracoastal...just wear a lifejacket and they have no reason to stop you in the first place.

Thanks saltlife77.
16ft is the limit like you said.
Hopefully they have better things to do than harass beachcats!!

It really depends on your area.. The lakes of Texas are pretty strict where in Galveston Bay and Clear Lake, it is not cared much unless you are a powerboat being stupid. There are a lot of cats that sail and don't have any registration numbers. It has gotten trickier to buy/sell boats that don't have any registration.

--
Scott

Prindle Fleet 2
TCDYC

Prindle 18-2 Mod "FrankenKitty"
Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
Prindle 19 "Mr. Wiggly"
Nacra 5.8 "De ja vu"
Nacra 5.0
Nacra 5.8
Tornadoes (Reg White)
--
tarch

Rank: Lubber

Registered: May 15, 2023

Last visit: Aug 26, 2023

Posts: 31
Posted: May 31, 2023 - 11:43 AM

Thanks all. In the end I got the Nacra 5.2 - hulls, beams, mast and sails are in good shape. One small tear on the main sail and a patch that seems to be coming off on the jib. Daggerboards, rudders, rudder castings all seem to be in usable shape. No soft spots.

The serial number ends in 0277 - guessing it is a 1977 model.

It has a white ball on top of the middle of front beam - is that the captive system people talk about? If so, I guess that is a modification done after manufacture right.

I do want to change the shrouds and forestay. Tramp has some holes but repairable.

Will these things work?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/144998065618
https://www.murrays.com/product/02-4245-12/

Are diamond wires and shroud wires the same?

Sorry for bombarding with questions.
Thanks