Welcome anonymous guest

Please Support
TheBeachcats.com

Barberhaul efficiency  Bottom

  • The G-cat 5.0 that I'm currently sailing has a barberhaul system that consists of a wire/line combination that traverses the forward part of the trampoline. There's a 2 to 1 purchase that allows the slot to open/close around 8 inches. With it tight, and the blocks and sheet leads inboard it definitely helps when close hauled. When you're off the wind it doesn't seem to help all that much and most of the time I don't bother letting it out, in fact I've been considering doing away with it entirely and just having the jib blocks fixed in the inboard position.

    G-cats have relatively large jibs and even though I don't race anymore I still like to sail the boat efficiently, so I want to make best use of that large jib.

    My other choice would be to change it to a system that pulls the sheet lead all the way out to the side and a little forward at the same time to minimize the upper part of the jib from twisting off like when the winds on your aft quarter. It would require very little hardware and drilling. A downside would be when the sheet lead is well outboard the blocks will be angled such that they will be hard to cleat. I have a pair of Oxen blocks that would solve this problem, but I'd have to send them to Murray's for expensive maintenance.


    So, my three choices are: Leave it alone, put the blocks in a fixed position or change it completely.

    --
    Bill Townsend
    G-Cat 5.0
    Sarasota
    --
  • I have a Gcat 5.7 and I removed the barberhauler system completely, it was just more parts for not a lot of benefit . I've just learned to live with the little bit of inefficiency off the wind. I do a lot of camp cruising and the gear gets in the way of any adjustable system I could think of so I haven't tried any other solutions.
  • I think there is some confusion on the parts names

    Barberhaulers are a control line that run along the front beam. They are used on the jib sheet with additional blocks and are used ONLY down wind, they pull the sheet OUTboard and forward to the ends of the front beam and create more of a pocket

    I think you are referring to the jib 4 way adjuster (possibly 2 way adjuster) which moves the jib blocks in (upwind) or outboard (downwind) / and forward and aft if it is a 4way

    http://www.catsailor.com/bb_files/148425-barber.jpg

    the g-cats I sailed with (including Hans) did not use a 4 way. Hans used fixed block, and Rey used a 2 way (inhaul/outhaul only), neither used a barber hauler if i recall



    Edited by MN3 on Mar 06, 2023 - 09:03 AM.
  • No confusion here. The photo depicts what I have in mind, the basic difference being I think I want to put the control line inside the tube. To put it simply, I just want to convert it over to the same barberhauler system the original 5.7 came with. I consider the 5.0 pretty much singlehanded boat most of the time and I usually find myself sitting forward of the shrouds so I would have easy access to the control line. What I really want to know is would this be a significant improvement worth the effort?

    --
    Bill Townsend
    G-Cat 5.0
    Sarasota
    --
  • I do not know of ANY legacy beachcat that come with a barber hauler. (along the front beam). Hobie 16's and a few others have jib blocks mounted on the front beam - they only move in/out-board

    MOST legacy cats come with a jib adjuster (that adjusts the jib blocks, not adds a second adjustment line that pulls the jib sheet forward and inboard with a fiddle block (type) inline (on the middle of the jib sheet)

    You can not add a "barberhauler" without the stock jib block system (regardless where it is mounted)

    Sounds like you want to move your jib (blocks) adjuster to the front beam. This would degrade your upwind sailing and require a recut of your jib or you will have lots of flogging upwind

    On my pic above, the green circle on the starboard side is the barberhauler block - it is not part of any stock jib block system.



    Edited by MN3 on Mar 06, 2023 - 10:55 AM.
  • Nacra's 5.5SL, 5.8, 6.0 and Prindle's 16, 18, 18-2, and 19 came with barberhaulers

    --
    Philip
    --
  • Maybe I haven't made myself clear enough. I want to do what is in the photo with one major difference and that's to put the control line inside the beam. It's one line with each end terminating at a block or ring that the jib sheet passes through. There's enough slack so that when you're sitting on the windward hull you can pull it and lay it in some kind of jam cleat mounted on the beam. The details are irrelevant, the goal is to move the sheet lead outboard and forward. The jib blocks are in a fixed position where you would have them for closed hauled. Every 5.7 I've seen is rigged this way. All I want is someone to comment on how much they think this helps.

    --
    Bill Townsend
    G-Cat 5.0
    Sarasota
    --
  • P.M.Nacra's 5.5SL, 5.8, 6.0 and Prindle's 16, 18, 18-2, and 19 came with barberhaulers

    On prindles they were not stock, they were an upgrade option

    https://www.thebeachcats.…5e4f563d6f0d75cff707cef7



    Edited by MN3 on Mar 06, 2023 - 03:11 PM.
  • Quote I want to do what is in the photo with one major difference and that's to put the control line inside the beam. It's one line with each end terminating at a block or ring that the jib sheet passes through. There's enough slack so that when you're sitting on the windward hull you can pull it and lay it in some kind of jam cleat mounted on the beam.

    Yes you can run a barberhauler sheet through the beam. I know of a few mystere owners that did that. they cut a square out of the beam and placed a "box" inside the area they just cut out that had a cleat built into it. Unless you have this exact setup having the line inside the beam, entering and exiting a hole on the beam cap will work but then reeving it through a cleat mounted above it on the beam would be odd and difficult to cleat and uncleat.

    IF you don't uncleat the barberhauler when you tack will create a big mess (your jibsheet will be fouled) and your jib will not clear the mast and you will have to go back to the (now) leaside beam and uncleat it

    the barberhauler sheet is typically above/around the beam and run through a cleat with a pad-eye or some type of retainer do it can be cleated and uncleated from the windward side
  • shortyfoxThe G-cat 5.0 that I'm currently sailing has a barberhaul system that consists of a wire/line combination that traverses the forward part of the trampoline. There's a 2 to 1 purchase that allows the slot to open/close around 8 inches. With it tight, and the blocks and sheet leads inboard it definitely helps when close hauled. When you're off the wind it doesn't seem to help all that much and most of the time I don't bother letting it out, in fact I've been considering doing away with it entirely and just having the jib blocks fixed in the inboard position.

    G-cats have relatively large jibs and even though I don't race anymore I still like to sail the boat efficiently, so I want to make best use of that large jib.

    My other choice would be to change it to a system that pulls the sheet lead all the way out to the side and a little forward at the same time to minimize the upper part of the jib from twisting off like when the winds on your aft quarter. It would require very little hardware and drilling. A downside would be when the sheet lead is well outboard the blocks will be angled such that they will be hard to cleat. I have a pair of Oxen blocks that would solve this problem, but I'd have to send them to Murray's for expensive maintenance.


    So, my three choices are: Leave it alone, put the blocks in a fixed position or change it completely.


    OK Bill I went back and reread your OP. Your third choice would work well, and still allow you to sail "efficiently" and fast both upwind and downwind. I basically rigged and tuned the 5.8NA like this.

    Totally removed the jib 4way shit show and mounted the blocks on the traveler. Got rid of the barberhauler and would throw the sheet around the daggerboard sometimes or not, depending on wind strength and point of sail. Both methods were extremely fast off wind. I reversed the jib cam cleats (modified) to completely fix the sheeting angle issue you described. It worked very well with a very high load upwind on the jib sheet, and was very easy to release.

    When sailing up and down wind in lighter air, you could fine tune the position of the jib clew by playing the windward jib sheet and getting excellent trim.

    The 5.8NA and the 6.0NA had really large jibs so all this works. The NA jibs did not liked to be trimmed in tight to centerline as it would choke the main when beating, so getting rid of the 4way didn't really hurt you.

    As for the Oxen blocks, the happiest day of my sailing career was the day I sold them on eBay.



    Edited by P.M. on Mar 06, 2023 - 03:45 PM.

    --
    Philip
    --
  • As it turns out, the Hobie 21SE did have a true barber hauler intended for it; it just shows up as a brief mention in the manuals as a part. Mine didn't have it, so I rigged a setup and found it did improve downwind performance without spinnaker quite a bit the couple times I've sailed with it last season. My jib blocks are set up as in the picture above, but at a 10' width, that makes sailing close hauled more difficult.

    --
    Chuck C.
    H21SE 408
    --
  • Thank you all for your input. Obviously, there are a few variations to reach the same goal. Right now, the red tide's really bad here in this part of SW Florida and that's really a shame because the sailing weather is perfect. So, I've brought the boat home and I'll put the mast up and raise the jib and experiment with what might work best. I'm very methodical and want to be reasonably sure that what I have in mind will work before I do any drilling. Spending a late afternoon puttering around with a boat is very enjoyable!

    --
    Bill Townsend
    G-Cat 5.0
    Sarasota
    --
  • shortyfoxThe G-cat 5.0 that I'm currently sailing has a barberhaul system that consists of a wire/line combination that traverses the forward part of the trampoline. There's a 2 to 1 purchase that allows the slot to open/close around 8 inches. With it tight, and the blocks and sheet leads inboard it definitely helps when close hauled. When you're off the wind it doesn't seem to help all that much and most of the time I don't bother letting it out, in fact I've been considering doing away with it entirely and just having the jib blocks fixed in the inboard position.

    G-cats have relatively large jibs and even though I don't race anymore I still like to sail the boat efficiently, so I want to make best use of that large jib.

    My other choice would be to change it to a system that pulls the sheet lead all the way out to the side and a little forward at the same time to minimize the upper part of the jib from twisting off like when the winds on your aft quarter. It would require very little hardware and drilling. A downside would be when the sheet lead is well outboard the blocks will be angled such that they will be hard to cleat. I have a pair of Oxen blocks that would solve this problem, but I'd have to send them to Murray's for expensive maintenance.


    So, my three choices are: Leave it alone, put the blocks in a fixed position or change it completely.


    I would remove the wire 4-way system crossing the trampoline and attach the jib blocks on the hull. For the most part, you will not notice the pointing difference. As you know, the benefit of removing the wire is huge. My 18-2 is 10' wide and if I'm doing a race that has very good odds of being off the wind, I will remove the 4-way from the trampoline. Bringing the jib lead in 18" makes a huge difference for my boat. In the early stages of my boat development, I didn't have the 4-way and I would pull the windward sheet on the jib slightly to bring the clew inboard. It would work ok.

    As for the barberhauler that pulls the jib lead outboard and forward, that is personal preference. For cruising, I would remove it. It becomes one more line to get people tangled up in. I have had boats without one pacing pretty well with me while I use mine. It does help, but is the extra "crap" worth it?

    --
    Scott

    Prindle 18-2 Mod "FrankenKitty"
    Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
    Prindle 19 "Mr. Wiggly" - gone
    Nacra 5.8 "De ja vu"
    Nacra 5.0
    Nacra 5.8
    Tornadoes (Reg White)
    --
  • The whole point is the slot between the backside of the main and the leach of the jib.
    The slot needs to be tight upwind, more open on the broad reach, and always parallel regardless.
    Do whatever you need to do to get this right.
    The bulk of your power comes from the backside of your main, so it is important.
    If you do not feel any difference on a given point of sail while changing your jib slot, then your main isn't shaped well. The variables are downhaul, outhaul, batten tension, traveler, diamond wire tension, mast rotator, mast rake, etc.

    --
    Sheet In!
    Bob
    _/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
    Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
    Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
    AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
    (Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
    Arizona, USA
    --
  • shortyfoxNo confusion here. The photo depicts what I have in mind, the basic difference being I think I want to put the control line inside the tube. To put it simply, I just want to convert it over to the same barberhauler system the original 5.7 came with. I consider the 5.0 pretty much singlehanded boat most of the time and I usually find myself sitting forward of the shrouds so I would have easy access to the control line. What I really want to know is would this be a significant improvement worth the effort?


    In my opinion the answer is no for a large variety of reasons the biggest being not enough performance increase or advantage to make the effort worthwhile. I would never consider adding this unless you were a serious racer.

    On my G Cat 5.7 I often used the jib lazy sheet tied off with a slip knot to make a jury rigged barber hauler but only on very specific points of sail. I also used a whisker pole a few times for a long distance race that was mostly downwind. Given the frequency of use for a barber hauler system these were better solutions for me.



    Edited by bradinjax on Apr 20, 2023 - 12:31 PM.
  • Quote
    In my opinion the answer is no for a large variety of reasons the biggest being not enough performance increase or advantage to make the effort worthwhile. I would never consider adding this unless you were a serious racer.

    You are probably right. However, I like to fuss around and installed one anyway. The first 5.7 I owned had the barber hauler control line going through the main beam and exiting through small holes on the end caps. Too much friction. I have owned two more 5.7s after that, and on both, the control line went through an exit block/cam cleat combination that worked much better. Now I wasn't about to cut holes for something I might decide wasn't worth it so I attached a couple of small bullet blocks to the main beam end caps via the hole where the trapeze shock cord is supposed to go. (I always had the trapeze back by the shroud anyway.) The control line is external and runs in front of the mast. Clam cleats are mounted on the main beam about 12 inches inboard. I already had all the parts. Of course, I can't tell really if it helps that much but by working the jib sheet and the barber haul the sail appears to be shaped really nice when off the wind a little and even the upper tell tales are streaming back nicely.

    --
    Bill Townsend
    G-Cat 5.0
    Sarasota
    --
  • I loved mine
    EVERYTHING was a race, first one off the trailer, first one mast up, in the pool, off the beach, on the island, etc. So when you are the weakest sailor in the fleet EVERY trick helps.

    it was a nice boost when going downwind but the drawback of more spaghetti and more gear to fowl up
    I put it on and took it of many times battling the pros and cons



    Edited by MN3 on Apr 20, 2023 - 06:43 PM.
  • MN3I loved mine
    EVERYTHING was a race, first one off the trailer, first one mast up, in the pool, off the beach, on the island, etc. So when you are the weakest sailor in the fleet EVERY trick helps.

    it was a nice boost when going downwind but the drawback of more spaghetti and more gear to fowl up
    I put it on and took it of many times battling the pros and consEdited by MN3 on Apr 20, 2023 - 06:43 PM.



    I love that competitive spirit Master Chief. My G Cat 5.7 came with a barber haul rig. I had a period of time that I could not get experienced crew and the barber added a layer of complexity. My solution was to super simplify everything on the boat. We had much better racing results. I lucked into more experienced crew and we agreed simpler is better. In the process I lost the mast rotation preventer (proper stay tension made it redundant), Harken Boomlet, and barber haul.

    I have followed the simple is better philosophy for a long time now with good results and have made simplification a point of emphasis on all my boats as well as those I crew on for others.

    Brad in Jax
    Stiletto 27 (cruiser)
    Stiletto 27 (current racer and future foiler)
    Beneteau Oceanis 36 (monohulls suck but make wives and kids happy)
    next boat: F27 or F31



    Edited by bradinjax on Apr 20, 2023 - 09:22 PM.

This list is based on users active over the last 60 minutes.