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Old square tip vs new rounded tip rudders Prindle 18-2.  Bottom

  • Hi fellow sailers, Can anyone tell me any other handling differences other then the cavitation issue of the old rudder blades vs the new round tip blades? Is it worth spending the money for the new style rudders is what I’m trying to convince myself.
    Thanks!!!



    Edited by zirie1982 on Aug 22, 2022 - 04:08 AM.
  • Check to see if the rudders are new (rounded tips) or old (square tips) (square bottom). The previous design is susceptible to ventilation. Not a deal breaker, but it should make a difference in price.



    Edited by jdaniels69 on Aug 22, 2022 - 02:23 AM.

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    toaleta-poznan.pl
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  • zirie1982Hi fellow sailers, Can anyone tell me any other handling differences other then the cavitation issue of the old rudder blades vs the new round tip blades? Is it worth spending the money for the new style rudders is what I’m trying to convince myself.
    Thanks!!!Edited by zirie1982 on Aug 22, 2022 - 04:08 AM.


    short story, yes.

    Been racing P-19s and modified 18-2 (FrankenKitty) since 1989. Had the original square rudders on the 19 and upgraded to the ellipticals and there is a huge difference. Unfortunately, I had given them away to a friend. To the point I'm considering building an elliptical set for FrankenKitty.

    --
    Scott

    Prindle 18-2 Mod "FrankenKitty"
    Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
    Prindle 19 "Mr. Wiggly" - gone
    Nacra 5.8 "De ja vu"
    Nacra 5.0
    Nacra 5.8
    Tornadoes (Reg White)
    --
  • zirie1982Hi fellow sailers, Can anyone tell me any other handling differences other then the cavitation issue of the old rudder blades vs the new round tip blades? Is it worth spending the money for the new style rudders is what I’m trying to convince myself.
    Thanks!!!Edited by zirie1982 on Aug 22, 2022 - 04:08 AM.

    Its night and day difference. Im so much more comfortable with my 19 over 20 knots with the elipticals than the square tips.

    --
    Captain Chris Holley
    Fulshear, TX
    '87 Prindle 19 "¡Hijole!"
    '74 sunfish "1fish"
    --
  • To get the full benefit of the newer rudder system you will also have to install the newer rudder gudgeons. They make the rudders further aft of the transoms.
  • Yes the new style rudders do offer benefits, but not at the price they are asking for them. I have used both on the 18-2. The new style were a more responsive when I added the square top mainsail, but they came with the boat I had plus the old style ones.

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    John Schwartz
    Ventura, CA
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  • HULLFLYERTo get the full benefit of the newer rudder system you will also have to install the newer rudder gudgeons. They make the rudders further aft of the transoms.


    Yes, forgot, this is to also keep the rudder from hitting the transom when you put them down.. good catch Hullflyer..

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    John Schwartz
    Ventura, CA
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  • Thanks everyone lots of great input, I put a new square top main on and I’ve been taking my time getting the rudders dialed in and it’s much different feeling then the pin head main. Its insane how much this boat wants to go with the new glaser main. So I’ve been playing the mast rake and the rudders but it’s still a little much weather helm. Wondering if the eliptical rudders are the answer. But with each adjustment the helm is feeling better.
  • HULLFLYERTo get the full benefit of the newer rudder system you will also have to install the newer rudder gudgeons. They make the rudders further aft of the transoms.


    Good point.. I had the 2" gudgeons with the old style and figured all boats had already done that.

    --
    Scott

    Prindle 18-2 Mod "FrankenKitty"
    Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
    Prindle 19 "Mr. Wiggly" - gone
    Nacra 5.8 "De ja vu"
    Nacra 5.0
    Nacra 5.8
    Tornadoes (Reg White)
    --
  • texastuma
    HULLFLYERTo get the full benefit of the newer rudder system you will also have to install the newer rudder gudgeons. They make the rudders further aft of the transoms.


    Good point.. I had the 2" gudgeons with the old style and figured all boats had already done that.

    Would anyone say there is a benefit to using the extended gudgeons with the older rudders?
  • zirie1982
    texastuma
    HULLFLYERTo get the full benefit of the newer rudder system you will also have to install the newer rudder gudgeons. They make the rudders further aft of the transoms.


    Good point.. I had the 2" gudgeons with the old style and figured all boats had already done that.

    Would anyone say there is a benefit to using the extended gudgeons with the older rudders?


    Texastuma - I had a dickens of a time getting the helm right with the old-style rudders and the newer grudgeon on my 18-2 with a Glaser Square Top.... couldn't get the weather helm out. Went back to the standard ones, and presto, balanced helm

    More of a curiosity question, how did you balance it out?

    --
    John Schwartz
    Ventura, CA
    --
  • JohnES
    zirie1982
    texastuma
    HULLFLYERTo get the full benefit of the newer rudder system you will also have to install the newer rudder gudgeons. They make the rudders further aft of the transoms.


    Good point.. I had the 2" gudgeons with the old style and figured all boats had already done that.

    Would anyone say there is a benefit to using the extended gudgeons with the older rudders?


    Texastuma - I had a dickens of a time getting the helm right with the old-style rudders and the newer grudgeon on my 18-2 with a Glaser Square Top.... couldn't get the weather helm out. Went back to the standard ones, and presto, balanced helm

    More of a curiosity question, how did you balance it out?


    The square top moves some sail behind the center of resistance providing more weather helm. Take some rale out if need be. Evem a pin hole on the rigging does it

    --
    Captain Chris Holley
    Fulshear, TX
    '87 Prindle 19 "¡Hijole!"
    '74 sunfish "1fish"
    --
  • cholley12
    JohnES
    zirie1982
    texastuma
    HULLFLYERTo get the full benefit of the newer rudder system you will also have to install the newer rudder gudgeons. They make the rudders further aft of the transoms.


    Good point.. I had the 2" gudgeons with the old style and figured all boats had already done that.

    Would anyone say there is a benefit to using the extended gudgeons with the older rudders?


    Texastuma - I had a dickens of a time getting the helm right with the old-style rudders and the newer grudgeon on my 18-2 with a Glaser Square Top.... couldn't get the weather helm out. Went back to the standard ones, and presto, balanced helm

    More of a curiosity question, how did you balance it out?


    The square top moves some sail behind the center of resistance providing more weather helm. Take some rale out if need be. Evem a pin hole on the rigging does it


    Hey guys thanks for all the input! Really!
    So my fix was=
    I had a shorter upper forstay made “shorter by 1.5 inches” and that put the measurement to more like 28’ 11” if you measure from the shackle on the main halyard to the center of the rear crossbeam. Then I adjusted my rudders fwd, so the intersecting line of the transom angle was more like 5/8 at the rudder tip instead of the recommended 1/2”. The boat is alot more balanced now , but still not as balanced feeling as the old pinhead main.
  • Aren't there two different lengths of prindle square bottoms through the years?
    and the rounded ones even longer?

    --
    Lee Lake George FL
    Hobie 16 -Boomer Sails
    Matrix 5.5
    --
  • zhopperAren't there two different lengths of prindle square bottoms through the years?
    and the rounded ones even longer?


    Yes. The P-16 and P-18 rudders are longer than the P-19 & P18-2 original rudders. I believe the elliptical rudders are a couple of inches deeper than the longer 16 & 18 rudders. Mainly, the ellipticals do not ventilate like the square tipped rudders. The boat responds a lot better and the point increases a couple of degrees.

    --
    Scott

    Prindle 18-2 Mod "FrankenKitty"
    Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
    Prindle 19 "Mr. Wiggly" - gone
    Nacra 5.8 "De ja vu"
    Nacra 5.0
    Nacra 5.8
    Tornadoes (Reg White)
    --

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