So how come I didn't know about these group?
https://youtu.be/aHGpqSo5HeI
Are any of you guys on this forum?
Edited by mattson on Jan 05, 2021 - 03:38 AM.
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Bill Mattson
Prindle 19 "Gelli Bean"
Prindle 19 "Cat's Pajamas"
Nacra 5.2 (Will sail her a bit and let her name herself)
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Hobie 16 Group Sails to Catalina Island
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Posted: Jan 05, 2021 - 03:29 AM
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Posted: Jan 05, 2021 - 08:15 AM
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Posted: Jan 05, 2021 - 09:21 AM
Hobies only!!!!!!!!!! lol
interesting comments below the vid
LEE W:
Dear Lord, please start wearing life jackets. I’ve done that crossing dozens of times on my H21, H16 and Nacra 20. I’ve even done it solo, so I’m not just being a keyboard critic. Enjoy. It’s one of my favorite trips.
Video Poster:
I definitely hear what you’re saying. I’m not sure if you can see it in this video but we all wear life lines for the whole sail over and back. We’re not taking a risk of anyone falling off and getting separated from the boat. Also we’re all wearing 7mm wetsuits so we couldn’t sink if we wanted to. Appreciate the concern though.
i never wear wetsuits - is this accurate that you cant "sink" in a 7mm? -
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Posted: Jan 05, 2021 - 10:43 AM
We sail early & late in wetsuits. Even thin 3mm suits have the buoyancy of a a PFD.
Have a close look at yours, buoyancy depends solely on the volume of water it displaces, & there is not much displacement from a PFD. IIRC, an adult sized PFD gives about 14lbs flotation.
I have a 7mm suit, leftover from cold water diving, you need 30lbs lead weight on your belt to submerge.
I find them pretty cumbersome to sail in, but you can float around for hours in 5C water without dying, & they won’t turn & float you face up, but neither will a PFD, you need a certified life jacket for that.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Jan 05, 2021 - 01:15 PM
I've done a couple of crossings to Catalina, but dozens of trips to the Northern Channel Islands, which comprises the Channel Islands National Park, doing trips to Anacapa, Santa Cruz, and Santa Rosa. We put a lot of work into these trips, treating them on a level of an aggressive expedition, with detailed planning, weight management, custom configurations on the boat, and overall risk management.
My first impulse was to respond to the combined weight on these boats, and the inclusion of children.
Slept on it, and came to the conclusion that it's not my place, not knowing any of the details that went into the planning and execution. Safety tethers are mentioned here already, which is obviously just one component of the planning that into this. Besides, I've been criticized and occasionally categorized as "nuts" for the crossings I make on the boat I make them on, so who am I to judge?
I wish the participants fun, safety, and the invite of letting me know if I can be of any help.
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Bill Mattson
Prindle 19 "Gelli Bean"
Prindle 19 "Cat's Pajamas"
Nacra 5.2 (Will sail her a bit and let her name herself)
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Posted: Jan 05, 2021 - 02:51 PM
tethers on a beach cat are controversial too!
you could fall off and be dragged, you can get caught in the lines on deck and fall into a spar or you can flip and be stuck below water
think i will stick to wearing a pfd and waterwings
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Posted: Jan 05, 2021 - 03:11 PM
The topic of this crossing comes up annually on this forum, and it's always made out to be some treacherous crossing. I've never sailed in the pacific, though I have departed on a cruise ship out of long beach. It was foggy as I recall. Are there any other inherit dangers to this crossing? Pardon my ignorance, but at 18nm it seems like an easy 1.5 hour day sail...
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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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Posted: Jan 05, 2021 - 03:24 PM
And if you wear a seatbelt you could be trapped in your car if you go into a river.
More an issue for solo sailing, but my tether has never caused me an entanglement issue, and has saved my bacon twice in keeping me with the boat. And if there ever was an entanglement, I've got a quick release shackle with an extended line with a rubber tubing as a grip to release it.
But it supplements my PFD, rather than replacing it. Not sure I am sold on a wetsuit over a PFD. My PDF is where I attach my light and whistle, and it is an angler's model with pockets where I store my radio, flares, and ePirb.
Waterwings. Now, you're talkin!
Btw, we had one of the guys in our local group go overboard solo and was dragged by a tether. He was out by himself with no other boats and could not get back on the boat (long story with a spinnaker involved). It kept him with the boat and he was dragged 5 miles for over an hour until his boat hit a beach. His radio? On the boat.
Lessons learned: He is going to get his radio on him. Lesson for me: My plans to try and fly a spinnaker while solo are in the trash bin.
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Bill Mattson
Prindle 19 "Gelli Bean"
Prindle 19 "Cat's Pajamas"
Nacra 5.2 (Will sail her a bit and let her name herself)
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Posted: Jan 05, 2021 - 03:37 PM
that is why i wear a scuba tank at all time!!!!
i can't even imagine what that must feel like
yes we have talked about that - i think that is a critical and smart feature -
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Posted: Jan 05, 2021 - 04:06 PM
A couple of us that singlehand most of the time offshore have discussed a tether system. I have it designed and yet (luckily) to test it. My thought; use about 100' of 3-strand that is secured to the bow. If I do go over, I can have time to get my head up before getting yanked. To the bow, I can act as a sea anchor to stop the boat. This came to light during an offshore race with my son a couple of years ago when we had 2-4' swells. There were several times I felt I was going to get slung off the boat. I told him that if I disappear off the boat, sheet in and flip it over. But, the times I sail singlehanded in 20-25 knots of wind, stopping a cat with no one on it isn't very easy. And, I'm usually out when no one else is. I've had a couple of times where a trap line failed and I managed to maintain a death grip on the mainsheet. There are definitely pros and cons with each. You cannot rely on the crew if you get separated from the boat either. We had an instance one year where a skipper got separated from the boat at the beach, the boat headed back out through the surf and was headed for jetties. Short story, we rescued the inexperienced crew before the boat went up on the jetties.
don't give up on flying a spin solo, just have a plan and consider the worst possible.
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Scott
Prindle Fleet 2
TCDYC
Prindle 18-2 Mod "FrankenKitty"
Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
Prindle 19 "Mr. Wiggly"
Nacra 5.8 "De ja vu"
Nacra 5.0
Nacra 5.8
Tornadoes (Reg White)
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Posted: Jan 05, 2021 - 04:12 PM
The guy called his wife once on the beach and could hardly speak. It was tough to convince her he was okay.
Edited by mattson on Jan 05, 2021 - 04:22 PM.
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Bill Mattson
Prindle 19 "Gelli Bean"
Prindle 19 "Cat's Pajamas"
Nacra 5.2 (Will sail her a bit and let her name herself)
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Posted: Jan 05, 2021 - 04:19 PM
I have very little time on an H16, but my buddies at the lake have a couple, & an H17.
Isn’t 3 adults on a 16 a slow boat to begin with? One 210lb adult with his 16 year old son has the hull pretty much sunk.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Jan 05, 2021 - 04:26 PM
It definatetly looks overloaded in the video. But one consideration is that these are not performance trips. Even with a normal crew weight you are carrying at least 100 lbs of gear, and capsizes are way more complicated so you don't push the boat.
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Bill Mattson
Prindle 19 "Gelli Bean"
Prindle 19 "Cat's Pajamas"
Nacra 5.2 (Will sail her a bit and let her name herself)
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Posted: Jan 05, 2021 - 04:46 PM
My setup is a jack line tied to the trampoline lacing at each side of the boat. Bowlines covered in rigging tape. The tether is three strand rope as it's just easy for me to make loops out of. A quick release shackle on the sailor end with a line attached to the release with a rubber hose on it that can be found quickly by feel. The side connecting to the jackline is a carbiner with "keylock" latch. This latch is an important feature. It allows you to unclip without a conventional latch snagging on the jackline. It's a redundant release point, if there are any issues with the quick release. The jackline setup allows you to tack the boat without unhooking. The whole setup is best viewed in this video:
https://youtu.be/ICjJNvMhzvE
I also had an incident with a broken trap wire, with the boat staying on it's hulls. The "sea anchor" effect is definitely an issue, as if you are attached to the boat at the stern the bows are going to start blowing downwind. In my case, I grabbed one rudder blade and steered the boat upwind.
The line to the bow is an interesting concept. I think I will stay with the jackline setup, but am considering a line tied to each bow for island trips. But we have played around with the concept of trailing lines behind the boat as another overboard scenario safeguard. (Again.... These are not performance trips.) But these lines could be tied to the bows, instead of the stern. If the boat cannot be steered to weather in an overboard scenario, you put a couple of wraps on your hand, release the safety tether, and boat eventually heads up. Maybe a loop in the line to transfer the tether to. Gotta think about this.
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Bill Mattson
Prindle 19 "Gelli Bean"
Prindle 19 "Cat's Pajamas"
Nacra 5.2 (Will sail her a bit and let her name herself)
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Posted: Jan 10, 2021 - 07:40 PM
We've thought of taking our H18 out to Catalina. We'd only do it with at least one other boat sailing with us, and we'd likely wear 2.5mm wetsuits AND PFDs. The water is COLD, and you need some protection just to avoid hypothermia if you spend time in it. The PFDs we use are equipped with a behind-the-neck support, giving us a better change of being face-up if not fully conscious.
We wear the PFDs even when sailing in the shallow and protected waters of Mission Bay, though the wetsuits are only for open ocean or full winter. We use 2.5mm full wetsuits or 3mm shorties depending on conditions in the cold months, and we have 7mm full suits for winter diving. I don't think we'd ever wear the 7mm sailing, the movement penalty is just too high...
Edited by onemorecat on Jan 10, 2021 - 05:41 PM.
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Tony H
Hobie 18
Sailing Mission Bay and nearby CA
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Posted: Jan 10, 2021 - 07:47 PM
BTW, something I'd never really appreciated till I watched that video is how HIGH the H16 tramp sits out of the water compared to the H18. Even fully loaded, those boats look to be a whole lot more dry than mine!
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Tony H
Hobie 18
Sailing Mission Bay and nearby CA
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Posted: Jan 11, 2021 - 11:22 AM
This is true to an extent, however the hulls on the H16 also have considerably less volume than the 18. So when sailing, the leeward hull on the 16 is nearly completely submerged. The lower volume on the 16 also makes it much more susceptible to pitchpoling or going over backwards when compared to the 18.
If you want the best of both worlds, look into getting a set of wings for your 18.
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Posted: Jan 11, 2021 - 02:26 PM
Yep, H18 is not dry when sitting on the tramp or hull. Much drier on wings, until your wing hits the next wave while hull in a wave trough. Swept crew on the trapeze that way before. I am also tempted to do a Catalina sail, but never pulled the trigger. Really wanted to before selling my 21SE, still would like to on my 18.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Jan 11, 2021 - 03:21 PM
IMHO, the H18 is THE boat to do these crossings on, just due the bulletproof construction of the hulls. I'm considering a trip to Santa Cruz Island this year, post vaccine, on the Prindle 19. But I have already decided I will be restricted to the backside of the island where the sandy beaches are. Some of the rocky north shore beaches that were routine on my H18 would probably punch holes in the P19.
The obvious problem here is that, depending on conditions/equipment, you don't always end up where you originally planned. I've got another P19 disassembled that I am thinking of reinforcing the hull bottoms with kevlar or I may even acquire another H18.
On wetsuits: They seem like they are designed to keep you from getting cold IN the water. Outside of the water, once wet and in wind, in some conditions I think they can turn into evaporative coolers. Wearing a spray top over them helps. But years ago, I started going with a dry suit. Way warmer.
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Bill Mattson
Prindle 19 "Gelli Bean"
Prindle 19 "Cat's Pajamas"
Nacra 5.2 (Will sail her a bit and let her name herself)
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Posted: Jan 11, 2021 - 03:27 PM
Here's a trip we did on my H18 back in '09. Check out the rocks in some of the photos. We used ABS pipe for skids, but you can't keep the boat on them during the entire landing/launching processes.
http://www.catsail.com/cinp/trip0609/sci0609.html
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Bill Mattson
Prindle 19 "Gelli Bean"
Prindle 19 "Cat's Pajamas"
Nacra 5.2 (Will sail her a bit and let her name herself)
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