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  • gahambyStrike, to take down.
    - never heard that - thanks!

    QuoteI would tie the line onto the top of the ring with a tight hitch ( clove, rolling, fisherman's) and let the line fall straight down the mast.

    i am confused (nothing new here) - so this is just to pull the ring while pulling from the foot or instead of the foot to help the ring move down (with the mast rotated)?

    i dont see pulling from the ring, via 30' below having more bite than pulling from the downhaul lines or the main halyard reeved through the tack but interesting.

    please explain if i am missing something -thanks again
  • It's in the dictionary.
    You have to pull the ring aft so it backs away from the hook. I'll grant you it's a bit of a cheat, but if you're out on the water and need the main down it helps.

    --
    1982 Super Cat 15
    #315
    Virginia
    --
  • QuoteYou have to pull the ring aft so it backs away from the hook. I'll grant you it's a bit of a cheat, but if you're out on the water and need the main down it helps.

    hmmmmmm
    in my world you have to move the hook (twist mast 90*), not the ring - static, attached to head of sail with little wiggle room

    but i guess if you can twist the ring the correct way it would help - thanks for splainin'

    Quote It's in the dictionary.

    Holllly molllly - i never realized how many meanings this word had

    Definition of strike

    (Entry 1 of 2)

    intransitive verb
    1 : to take a course : go struck off through the brush
    2a : to aim and usually deliver a blow, stroke, or thrust (as with the hand, a weapon, or a tool)
    b : to arrive with detrimental effect disaster struck
    c : to attempt to undermine or harm something as if by a blow struck at … cherished notions— R. P. Warren
    3 : to come into contact forcefully two ships struck in mid channel
    4 : to delete something
    5 : to lower a flag usually in surrender
    6a : to become indicated by a clock, bell, or chime the hour had just struck
    b : to make known the time by sounding the clock struck as they entered
    7 : pierce, penetrate the wind seemed to strike through our clothes
    8a : to engage in battle
    b : to make a military attack
    9 : to become ignited the match struck
    10 : to discover something struck on a new plan of attack
    11a : to pull on a fishing rod in order to set the hook
    b of a fish : to seize the bait
    12 : dart, shoot
    13a of a plant cutting : to take root
    b of a seed : germinate
    14 : to make an impression
    15 : to stop work in order to force an employer to comply with demands
    16 : to make a beginning the need to strike vigorously for success
    17 : to thrust oneself forward he struck into the midst of the argument
    18 : to work diligently : strive

    transitive verb
    1a : to strike at : hit
    b : to drive or remove by or as if by a blow
    c : to attack or seize with a sharp blow (as of fangs or claws) struck by a snake
    d : inflict strike a blow
    e : to produce by or as if by a blow or stroke Moses struck water from the rock
    f : to separate by a sharp blow strike off flints
    2a : to haul down : lower strike the sails
    b : to dismantle and take away strike the set
    c : to strike the tents of (a camp)
    3 : to afflict suddenly stricken by a heart attack
    4a : to engage in (a battle) : fight
    b : to make a military attack on
    5 : delete, cancel strike the last paragraph
    6a : to penetrate painfully : pierce
    b : to cause to penetrate strike the needle
    c : to send down or out trees struck roots deep into the soil
    7a : to level (something, such as a measure of grain) by scraping off what is above the rim
    b : to smooth or form (something, such as a mold) with a tool
    8 : to indicate by sounding the clock struck one
    9a(1) : to bring into forceful contact struck his head on the doorjamb
    (2) : to shake (hands) in confirming an agreement
    (3) : to thrust suddenly
    b : to come into contact or collision with the car struck the tree
    c of light : to fall on
    d of a sound : to become audible to
    10a : to affect with a mental or emotional state or a strong emotion struck with horror at the sight
    b : to affect a person with (a strong emotion) words that struck fear in the listeners
    c : to cause to become by or as if by a sudden blow struck him dead
    11a : to produce by stamping strike a coin
    b(1) : to produce (something, such as fire) by or as if by striking
    (2) : to cause to ignite by friction strike a match
    12 : to make and ratify the terms of strike a bargain
    13a : to play or produce by hitting or plucking keys or strings struck a series of chords on the piano
    b : to produce as if by playing an instrument his voice struck a note of concern
    14a : to hook (a fish) by a sharp pull on the line
    b of a fish : to snatch at (a bait)
    15a : to occur to the answer struck me suddenly
    b : to appear to especially as a revelation or as remarkable : impress it struck the crowd as insensitive
    16 : bewitch
    17 : to arrive at by or as if by computation strike a balance
    18a : to come to : attain
    b : to come upon : discover strike gold
    19 : to engage in a strike against (an employer)
    20 : take on, assume strike a pose
    21a : to place (a plant cutting) in a medium for growth and rooting
    b : to so propagate (a plant)
    22 : to make one's way along will strike the southern coast
    23 : to cause (an arc) to form (as between electrodes of an arc lamp)
    24 of an insect : to oviposit on or in
    strike it rich
    : to become rich usually suddenly

    strike noun

    Definition of strike (Entry 2 of 2)
    1 : a tool for smoothing a surface (as of a mold)
    2 : an act or instance of striking
    3a : a work stoppage by a body of workers to enforce compliance with demands made on an employer
    b : a temporary stoppage of activities in protest against an act or condition
    4 : the direction of the line of intersection of a horizontal plane with an uptilted geological stratum
    5a : a pull on a fishing rod to strike a fish
    b : a pull on a line by a fish in striking
    6 : a stroke of good luck especially : a discovery of a valuable mineral deposit
    7a : a pitched ball that is in the strike zone or is swung at and is not hit fair
    b : a perfectly thrown ball or pass
    8 : disadvantage, handicap
    9 : an act or instance of knocking down all the bowling pins with the first bowl
    10 : establishment of roots and plant growth
    11 : cutaneous myiasis (as of sheep)
    12a : a military attack especially : an air attack on a single objective
    b : a group of airplanes taking part in such an attack
  • Transitive verb, example 2a.
    The OP indicated he was having trouble getting the head of the mainsail high enough to disengage the ring from the hook. A trip line would help by pulling the ring aft of the hook if he could not rotate the mast enough.
    I found once I had a square top main the leverage of the jack batten made it easier to clear the ring when rotating the mast.

    --
    1982 Super Cat 15
    #315
    Virginia
    --
  • QuoteThe OP indicated he was having trouble getting the head of the mainsail high enough to disengage the ring from the hook.

    Good point - i had forgotten that part.

    i find on my cat(s) when my sail "wont go up", i have accidentaly hoisted the ring above the hook and the hook is now engaged in the shackle section. this is almost certainly going to require me flipping my boat to get the hook out of there.

    i have used wire and monster tape to tape up that part of the ring so this can't happen . i think i am due for an inspection of this wire/tape
  • I don't think I could get the head high enough to hook the shackle of my Aussie ring. That would really suck.

    --
    1982 Super Cat 15
    #315
    Virginia
    --
  • theblackpearlThere is a set of MX rudders available, but at $600 its 20% of the boat's cost and hard to justify.

    If you get the MX rudders you need the extended gudgeons AND the longer tubes that come forward out of the rudder castings to connect to the tiller crossbar. This moves the tiller crossbar forward into place over the hull crossbar, countering the effect of the extended gudgeons. This upgrade could be $1000. Consider finding good used rudders for the 19 - they are interchangable with the 18-2. The original rudders on the 15, 16 and 18 are not the same.

    --
    Sheet In!
    Bob
    _/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
    Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
    Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
    AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
    (Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
    Arizona, USA
    --
  • Thank you all so much for your advice and insight. I have been lost in thought contemplating your answers and experience. I have learned a ton already- from the numerous definitions of strike, to multiple avenues to tackle my problems. Fortunately, I’ve got the day off tomorrow and 6 knot morning winds on a high tide. Probably the lightest day we’ve taken her out so it will be nice to test some options at a more relaxed pace.



    Edited by theblackpearl on Sep 01, 2020 - 10:13 PM.
  • Well after all the useful insight, and MN3's guidance on the unimportance of ROI, I decided to go all in and fix it right. New gudgeons, new castings, new lift and lock assembly, and new MX rudders! They lock in strong and hold properly. Of course now I haven't had a chance to take it out in conditions that previously caused them to pop, but I am confident that this fixed the problem. I was going to get the casting/tubes gold anodized for looks, but I was told I am an idiot. Now I'm working on restoring the old set of rudders just to have an alternative on hand. Finished the many hours of buffing the gelcoat, and I'm surprised at how much shine a 40 year old boat still has in her!
    https://www.thebeachcats.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=134045&g2_serialNumber=3



    Edited by theblackpearl on Nov 07, 2020 - 11:54 AM.
  • Quotethe unimportance of ROI,

    Rudders that work - priceless
    rudders that don't work - worthless

    QuoteI was going to get the casting/tubes gold anodized for looks, but I was told I am an idiot.

    icon_lol icon_razz icon_lol

    Congrats! Looks great

    one comment about your tiller cross-bar. IF the hole that holds your hiking stick is not 180* i have learned it is best that the angle is slanted aft (from above). that way if the stick falls overboard (or flails in a capsize) - the stick should have more room to swivel aft and reduces the chance of it snapping off . this is pretty small detail but hiking stick are expensive. and people have a habit of holding on to anything for dear life in a capsize ... i have seen more than one snap in my day

    QuoteI haven't had a chance to take it out in conditions that previously caused them to pop, but I am confident that this fixed the problem.

    you can test the "hold" of your rudders by gently but firmly (sounds like an oxymoron) kicking them on the bottom of the leading edge (front edge). start light and increase strength

    kick with 15 knots of pressure ! (jk) but this can give you and idea of at what force they release - just be careful - no need to keep kicking harder and harder if they wont release but you can still get them to lift when needed



    Edited by MN3 on Nov 07, 2020 - 02:17 PM.
  • Having the main tough to raise and lower is very common for "older" sails. I say older with no offense meant. Lay the sail out on the grass. You will probably notice the bolt rope wrinkled up. This is the issue. Sailcote or any dry lubricant will help a little, but you will kill yourself getting it up and frustrate the heck out of yourself doing it. Look at the bottom of the bolt rope and cut the stitching holding the bolt rope down. It will probably shoot up 6-8" inside the bolt rope sleeve. many sailmaker use a poly bolt rope which shrinks over time. A couple of options; cut the stitching and release the bolt rope, replace the bolt rope and tape, or buy a new main. Releasing the bolt rope will help, but it will still be tough to raise the main. I have owned a P-19 since '89 and now have a modified 18-2. I frequently launch out of harbors or marinas. A roller furler jib is very helpful in these situations. The anchor idea is also viable, but retrieving the anchor if there is chop can be tough. Having a downhaul system that is easy to attach is also important. Keeping things simple is critical for staying motivated in sailing. Being able to pull the main up easily is essential for releasing the halyard lock.

    --
    Scott

    Prindle 18-2 Mod "FrankenKitty"
    Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
    Prindle 19 "Mr. Wiggly" - gone
    Nacra 5.8 "De ja vu"
    Nacra 5.0
    Nacra 5.8
    Tornadoes (Reg White)
    --
  • Thanks for the great feedback Scott. I am excited to continue upgrading the boat, and another new sail may be in the cards next year. The current one I am using is a 2017 Neil Pryde, and it is in pretty good condition, however there is some wrinkling on the bolt, which is no doubt increasing friction. I’ve learned a lot of lessons since purchase, and and actually sailed into the marina under the main when blowing 7 knots. I am excited to see how much the new rudders that don’t pop up improve the handling of the boat and hopefully confidence. Simply replacing the gudgeons with longer ones made a difference (tested with old rudders while refinishing). I have sailed a couple times now without locking in the main on the hook. Wind was under 10, and I barely used the downhaul. Not ideal I realize, but necessary to allow my wife and sailing partner to feel confident. Had some great outings and are increasing wind speed. In hindsight, going out in 18 knots on the sound with only a couple outings under my belt on a cat probably wasn’t the best choice. Still haven’t flipped her, nor exploited her full potential- although it’s pretty darn easy to hit 18 knots. I love this boat, the challenges of sailing her well, and the steep learning curve. It’s funny when you think you’re a good sailor because you’ve got many years of monohull experience, then you get on one of these.
  • theblackpearlWell after all the useful insight, and MN3's guidance on the unimportance of ROI, I decided to go all in and fix it right. New gudgeons, new castings, new lift and lock assembly, and new MX rudders! They lock in strong and hold properly. Of course now I haven't had a chance to take it out in conditions that previously caused them to pop, but I am confident that this fixed the problem. I was going to get the casting/tubes gold anodized for looks, but I was told I am an idiot. Now I'm working on restoring the old set of rudders just to have an alternative on hand. Finished the many hours of buffing the gelcoat, and I'm surprised at how much shine a 40 year old boat still has in her!
    https://www.thebeachcats.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=134045&g2_serialNumber=3Edited by theblackpearl on Nov 07, 2020 - 11:54 AM.


    You will love the handling difference with the new style rudders.

    Main up/down while sailing: During the summer, I sail in and out of a marina and a narrow bayou. Many times I have raised and lowered the main while underway. From the ramp, the waterway is maybe 60' wide. When there is an east wind, it is perpendicular to the ramp and dock. I'll just sail out with the jib and when I get out of the narrow area, I raise the main. It takes a few minutes. I've done the same coming in. When there is a north wind, it is straight down the waterway. I drop the main and sail under jib for a bit, then furl the jib to sail in bare poles to the dock. Every situation is different, but I have found you have to work a bit sailing just jib in wind

    --
    Scott

    Prindle 18-2 Mod "FrankenKitty"
    Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
    Prindle 19 "Mr. Wiggly" - gone
    Nacra 5.8 "De ja vu"
    Nacra 5.0
    Nacra 5.8
    Tornadoes (Reg White)
    --

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