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H18 mast on 21se, help with setup  Bottom

  • I know there was a similar post recently but I have some specific question so I started a new thread. I have two toddlers and the 21se was a little much to handle with my non sailing wife. Since I had both boats I figured the H18 rig is a lot easier to handle and it fit with rigging I had. My only concern is the amount of mast rake. I could add the H18 shroud adjusters but did want that much hardware. I know the 21se does have more rake than the 18 but is this too much? I’m guessing the rake move the center of effort rear and may cause boat to point up, any other issues with too much rake? I use a rope to hold mast down while raising and seems to be ok.
    https://i.imgur.com/L8VvlbU.jpg
    https://i.imgur.com/9EeENFA.jpg



    Edited by car_guy on Jul 11, 2020 - 11:00 AM.
  • Fixed pictures
  • Looking at it again today I’m certain there’s too much rake. I have hardware to extends shrouds but run out of adjustment trying to tension the forestay. I guess I have two options:
    1. Move the bridal wires forward to the spinnaker tangs at the end of the bows. This concerns me because I’m not sure how much load these were designed for, also it’s a little wider at end of now which will make bridle wires flatter pulling more inward on the bow.
    2. Obviously have a shorter head stay made. Where would you recommend I could have one made? I need it done before vacation in 2 weeks, locally I could go to West Marine but I’m hesitant of having some kid do it.
  • Rake actually looks pretty good to me. Have you tried hoisting the sails on it yet?

    Keep in mind that with a smaller rig you will likely need more rake to maintain a balanced helm since the CE will inherently be moved forward.

    In any case, Murrays should be able to make you custom length rigging. Not sure about the 2 week turn around though. No, I would not trust West Marine fir this

    sm
  • www.RiggingAndHardware.com if you know the lengths you want they do a great job.

    --
    dk

    Blade F-16
    Hobie Tiger
    Hobie 14
    Corsair F-242
    Mirage 25
    --
  • Quote1. Move the bridal wires forward to the spinnaker tangs at the end of the bows. This concerns me because I’m not sure how much load these were designed for, also it’s a little wider at end of now which will make bridle wires flatter pulling more inward on the bow.
    2. Obviously have a shorter head stay made. Where would you recommend I could have one made? I need it done before vacation in 2 weeks, locally I could go to West Marine but I’m hesitant of having some kid do it.

    1. DON"T use your spin attachment for your bridal. the forces from your main + righting movment is MUCH higher than the forces a spin puts on the boat

    2. you could easily purchase some 4mm dynema and make a temp forestay if all else fails.
  • Did you use a H18 forestay? I assume so. With the H18 forestay, the H18 side-stays will be about 4-6" too short. Suggest getting some sort of extender or custom longer stays. Good luck, I'm interested to hear your success story..I like the H18 rig on my H21SE. It definitely sails better than my 2019 Getaway...points higher, goes faster and tacks easier. It is still worse for getting into out of water. The bench seats/wings are pretty dang spectacular.

    --
    Robert Netsch
    Nags Head, NC
    --
  • Rob,

    Did you have success with the Hobie 17 mast base on your 18 rig? That would help with Car Guy's issue. I think a Getaway mast base would work as well..

    Dan
  • Yes, the H17 base worked perfectly on the H18 mast as installed on the H21 ball.

    I was looking at that picture above and trying to decide what was implemented there.

    --
    Robert Netsch
    Nags Head, NC
    --
  • [quote=MN3]
    Quote
    2. you could easily purchase some 4mm dynema and make a temp forestay if all else fails.


    This is a great idea, defender marine is just down the street from beach house. I’m thinking I should add a shackle instead of running forestay through hole in adjuster. Should I use a bowline or something else? Also I found online 5/32 rigging has breaking strength of 3300lb so I’ll use this load for dynema and shackle sizes, sound about right?


    robert.netschYes, the H17 base worked perfectly on the H18 mast as installed on the H21 ball.

    I was looking at that picture above and trying to decide what was implemented there.


    I didn’t change anything, H18 mast on H21 base. I just ran a line through 18 hinge and a few turns around pin under mast ball. I figured I just needed to hold front of mast down for the first half of raising it. Once the weight of mast is on the base it’s not going anywhere.
  • QuoteAlso I found online 5/32 rigging has breaking strength of 3300lb so I’ll use this load for dynema and shackle sizes, sound about right?

    4mm dynema is about the same breaking strength as 5/32 wire depending on which exact type
    4mm Samson Amsteel-Blue Dyneema
    Average Strength - 4000 lbs
    Minimum Strength - 3600 lbs

    https://westcoastsailing.…steel-blue-dyneema-line/

    yes a a shackle in your furler and tie it like a Portuguese turnbuckle (that's what i do with my h18 furler on my mystere)
    use a thimble - not a shackle on the mast tang - (have defender put the splice in it if you don't do it yourself)
    as a matter of fact they (or you) could add thimbles at both ends and just rig it like a Portuguese turnbuckle all thje time)
    If you don't - make sure you pre stretch the dynema (tie it to a few trees and put your main sheet blocks on it. )

    if you don't want to learn how to splice - up to a 5mm as a knot can kill 1/2 your breaking strength when the knot cuts the line

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