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Mast rotation help for a Dragoon  Bottom

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  • Guys I have a Dragoon that I changed the mast base from a 14/16 to the Wave/17 ball style. Doing this left me with a mast that over rotates up to 90 degrees. I purchased the 18 rotation bar and it’s time to install it. I’m unsure of the best way to attach it. Over the boom like the 18, this would require a 18 gooseneck base, or under the boom like a 17. I am currently using a 14/16 gooseneck which works but is not perfect as the clew is a few inches away from the mast track and I had to rig it a little different than the 14/16, but it’s nice.
    Please let me know what your thoughts are and any pros or cons to the two methods.
    I suppose a 3rd option would be to point the bar towards the bows like a Nacra. This would require more cleats on the front cross bar and interfere with the sliding jib cars.
    Here is a link to my post on Hobiehttps://www.hobie.com/for…iewtopic.php?f=9&t=65236.
    I asked the same question there, but I think there is more experience here
  • Cool little cat! My SC15 doesn't rig mast rotation by design, so I'm talking through my hat here. In looking at your post over at Hobie, I would vote for over the boom with the 18 goose neck. You state that it's what Hobie does. What does Matt Miller recommend?
    If you rig it over the boom it's one less thing to part your hair on. How does Hobie instruct you to install the wishbone on the mast? There looks to be a lot going on at the foot there over and under the grommet.
    https://i.imgur.com/k9vIKFQ.jpg



    Edited by gahamby on Apr 28, 2020 - 04:44 PM.

    --
    1982 SuperCat 15
    #315
    Virginia
    --
  • Thanks for the reply. It’s a fun little cat, like a Wave on steroids.
    I too am leaning for over the boom. I’m hoping a few more folk will chime in.
    Hobie does not provide instructions on installing the wish bone. I did purchase the compression sleeve and plates, so it’s basically one big hole straight through the mast for the sleeve and bolt and 4 rivers per plate. That should be fairly easy to do. The hard part is making the “right” (if there is one) decision on placement.
  • Hard to see the gooseneck arrangement from the above pic, but it looks like the tack attaches to the fwd end of the boom. If that’s the case, won’t the sail interfere with the rotation arm if it’s placed above the boom?

    Anyway, for reference, the rotation arm attaches below the boom on the H14. But that’s a tight footed mainsail with a gooseneck that slides in the mast track. In that case it simply wouldn’t work to put the rotation arm above the boom. It is mounted a couple inches below the black band (max downhaul mark).

    sm
  • Here is a closer pic.
    I just installed the down haul the original was a hook that went through an eye on the boom and to the clew. I’m not totally stoked on the way I had to rig this down haul with the shackle.
    It’s ok with me to rivet the 18 goose neck base to the mast if I want the rotation bar above the boom and I would go back to the hook for the down haul. Or I can leave the down haul the way it is and put the bar below the boom, but the cleat may be in the way.

    https://i.imgur.com/JokZ2nA.jpg



    Edited by tradisrad on Apr 28, 2020 - 07:50 PM.
  • Looking at the pic, I understand the dilemma... the sliding gooseneck adds a challenge. IMHO: Move the cleat that has the blue line on it down about 6". Place the rotator arm below the boom where you would have max downhaul. Place a simple jam cleat under the boom with a line tied from the rotator arm to the cleat.. done.. It won't be perfect alignment when the wind is light and the downhaul is loose, but you shouldn't have that much load.. or you can relocate your mainsheet attachment on the boom. It appears that where the mainsheet is attached, it is driving the boom forward, which is ideal for racing and you want to over rotate downwind. The addition of the rotator adds one more piece of rigging to do when you set-up.

    --
    Scott

    Prindle 18-2 Mod "FrankenKitty"
    Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
    Prindle 19 "Mr. Wiggly" - gone
    Nacra 5.8 "De ja vu"
    Nacra 5.0
    Nacra 5.8
    Tornadoes (Reg White)
    --
  • I went ahead and ordered the 18 gooseneck mount. Once I get it I will mock up both options and go from there.
  • Out of curiosity, is the boom even needed? Looks like the clew attachment more or less aligns with the rear crossbar and the overall tack attachment and gooseneck arrangement makes me wonder if it was designed as a boomless rig and someone added the boom as an after-thought.

    sm
  • https://static.hobiecat.c…goon-assembly-manual.pdf

    --
    Ron
    Nacra F18
    Reservoir Sailing Assn.
    Brandon, Mississippi
    --
  • Looks like the manual shows two versions, standard and “Dragoon Extreme”. Only the Extreme version has a boom (with fixed gooseneck). The pictures from the above posts look like the standard version but someone added a boom. Probably worth seeing how it rigs without the boom.

    sm
  • As far as I know my version is the extreme as it also has the spinnaker and I believe the boom is stock. It had the 14/16 mast base for rotation control. I changed that to the later version ball. Perhaps my mistake was changing the mast base.
    The boom may not be needed, but I’m trying to get all the power I can out of this little boat.
    I just raised the mast in the driveway to experiment. I’ll follow up with my results. Not sure if I’m going to drill any holes today.
  • https://i.imgur.com/Gm9McEm.jpg
    I like this setup.



    Edited by tradisrad on May 02, 2020 - 12:43 PM.
  • Screen shot from a YouTube video. Probably what I’ll aim for.
    https://i.imgur.com/N1PFLjl.png



    Edited by tradisrad on May 03, 2020 - 08:24 AM.
  • The job is complete. It took about 3 hours to finalize, drill, rivet, add a cleat to the boom, clean up, etc. I may move the cleat for the jib (blue rope) and I’m not thrilled with the down haul hook rubbing on the goose neck/boom. I’m thinking a cord through the clew and hook in below the boom may work for the down haul.
    https://i.imgur.com/O73Pphe.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/exhXjxq.jpg
  • Looks like your gooseneck is missing the “yoke” fitting - U shaped hinge piece that attaches between the pin in the end of the boom and the bracket which is riveted to the mast. I would look into adding this so the system rotates properly and doesn’t wear or break the gooseneck.

    Also, not sure how much downhaul you have pulled on, but it looks like you’re maxed out due to placement of the gooseneck on the mast. I’d also ditch the hook and do a line through the tack (not clew) grommet to clean up the downhaul system as you mentioned.

    sm
  • You could make a loop and attach the cunningham hook to it underneath the boom. Also ditch the snap hook on the rotation bar. All it is going to do is scratch the boom and make noise everytime the mast rotates. Stock setup is best.

    --
    Master UniRig Sailor
    --
  • Down haul is maxed in pic. I knew clew didn’t sound correct.
    Here is the yoke installed. Good catch I appreciate it
    Edit: I'll ditch the snap hook, I was looking for a quick connection, but tying a knot is quick too. And the hook will go too.
    https://i.imgur.com/i3y10br.jpg



    Edited by tradisrad on May 15, 2020 - 07:37 AM.
  • https://owners.aquarius-sail.com/phpbb3/download/file.php?id=1130&t=1

    Aquarius' factory downhaul rigging.
    Granted not the same setup as yours, but if you put a set of mast mounted blocks on either side of the track you could straddle the boom with the lines. I had Ulman press in another grommet below the batten pocket protector.
    This rig also allows for control from either side.
    I rigged the control blocks on fast pins and used opening snatch blocks so I could disconnect the whole rig without un reeving it, put it in a mesh bag, and roll it up in the sail.



    Edited by gahamby on May 15, 2020 - 12:29 PM.

    --
    1982 SuperCat 15
    #315
    Virginia
    --
  • https://mail-attachment.g…tMo5G9QbNx3X5UkhL3xUUG7Q

    --
    1982 SuperCat 15
    #315
    Virginia
    --
  • gahambyhttps://owners.aquarius-sail.com/phpbb3/download/file.php?id=1130&t=1

    Aquarius' factory downhaul rigging.
    Granted not the same setup as yours, but if you put a set of mast mounted blocks on either side of the track you could straddle the boom with the lines. I had Ulman press in another grommet below the batten pocket protector.
    This rig also allows for control from either side.


    One of my thoughts was to move the down haul block to the side of the mast. It certainly needs some cleaning up and I'll continue to work on it this weekend. I'm sailing it this afternoon, it should be windy, and I will see how things work out!
    I appreciate all the suggestion and advice.

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