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How important is the jib  Bottom

  • Seems like some of the newer boats are moving towards much smaller, or in some cases no jib at all. Just watched a vid about M32 cats and they really dissed using a jib; not to mention the A Class boats.

    So even if you have an older boat with a jib, as an example something like my Prindle 18-2 is it necessary to sail it with the jib up; or can you just go with the main.

    Since I am still not able to get my boat in the water, due to title issues which are being resolved, all I can do is play on the internet. Hoping some of the more experienced guys can provide advice about how much weather helm is increased by not using a jib, can the boat point higher with no jib flying, and any other advice.
  • Quote Hoping some of the more experienced guys can provide advice about how much weather helm is increased by not using a jib, can the boat point higher with no jib flying, and any other advice.


    your cat will perform MUCH better with a jib

    upwind: size of a jib is not a critical factor. shape is
    without a jib you may struggle to tack. the jib is a big help with tacking a beachcat. I really dislike when i am overpowered with wind and weighed down with crew sans jib. It makes me blow tacks left and right

    you will have to be much more precise with your weight during a tack (both placement and when to move to the other side) - or you will blow the tac

    you will have to exaggerate your turn (go deeper in your new tack - to a close reach) or you will run out of gas and get then stuck in irons

    your jib helps balance out your sail plan - without a jib you may have some added tug on your rudders, but probably not a bunch.


    downwind - size is a factor, esp deeper sailing
    i doubt you will have much handling issues sans jib - but you will be much slower overall


    QuoteSeems like some of the newer boats are moving towards much smaller, or in some cases no jib at all.

    newer design beachcats are typically designed for either comfort or racing. both give reason for a smaller jib - with a smaller foot that only goes to the front beam.

    cruisers want a cleaner deck for crew
    racers use a spin for the down wind leg of a race, no big overlapping jib needed or wanted



    Edited by MN3 on Sep 17, 2019 - 03:19 PM.
  • The boat will point higher with no jib
    One reason for the jib only going to the front beam is the new boats have a self tacking jib
  • Quotethe new boats have a self tacking jib

    The new racing boats do
    non "race" boats typically don't have self tacking jibs (e.g. new nacra 500, 570, h16, etc all adjust on the front beam)
  • The boat will lack punch in the chop.
    You're comparing apples and oranges.
    You only need to go sail and tack an A cat and a Hobie 16 without a jib to see the difference and it isn't just rudder rake.
    There's too many things at play.
    M32 and A cats have extremely efficient rigs.

    --
    Joshua

    Texas Gulf Coast
    '82 Prindle 16 (Badfish)
    '02 Hobie Wave (Unnamed Project)
    ‘87 Hobie 18 (Sold)
    ‘89 Hobie 17 (ill-advised project boat, Sold)
    --
  • ragebot - PM sent
  • It's much more complicated than just taking the jib off.
    - M32, A-cat, M20, CFR20; were all designed as uni rigs. You'll notice that the main beams are further forward, more mast rake, boards further aft, etc. Taking the jib off of your 18-2 won't just magically make it go upwind better; it was designed for a jib and should therefore sail better with it.
    - Jibs pull 4-5x harder per unit area than a mainsail does, however their primary function is drag reduction/efficiency improvement for the main while also balancing the sail plan against the hull plan/boards and rudders. The S9 saw a significant performance improvement with addition of a jib b/c of the improved balance of the sail plan.
    - A uni is MUCH harder to reach with than a sloop.
    - Uni's have a narrower groove upwind than sloops do.
    - Uni's can point higher than a sloop if designed correctly; assuming this is true, you aren't lacking for power in chop, but it does make the boat harder to sail in light air.
  • MN3ragebot - PM sent


    Got your PM.
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  • First, tacking without a jib ... I guess folks here didn't start out on a H14. If you did, well, tacking without a jib would be "a piece of cake" on any of these newer than a H16 boat.

    As for powering up a Uni rig, it seems to be the opposite. When I contacted Goodall to get a bigger main on my F16 since I sail one up jib less most of the time, they told me that their one up mains were actually smaller in area than the standard mains and not bigger. I find myself fairly competitive in light area with just main and spinnaker.

    I was at Roton Pt this weekend and understand the draw of H16; one design racing and big fleets. However, if you want new design sailing, you have to go to a new design. Sorry.

    --
    dk

    Blade F-16
    Hobie Tiger
    Hobie 14
    Corsair F-242
    Mirage 25
    --

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