Nacra 5.2 wing build :: Catamaran Sailboats at TheBeachcats.com

Nacra 5.2 wing build

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rch701

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jul 06, 2009

Last visit: Mar 28, 2024

Posts: 383
Posted: Aug 27, 2019 - 11:10 AM

I was gifted by buddy's near mint 5.2 the other day and while I was in Houston I snatch up some Hobie 17 wings. Now for attaching the wings...
I like the cleanliness of the Hobie 17 having molded holes in the deck. This boat is one inspection port shy of having enough room to glass in some pvc pipe and bulkheads. The real benefit is zero mods to the seat. I am a little concerned that the tillers would hit the seat posts. https://www.thebeachcats.…ictures?g2_itemId=125830
On the other hand, the boat is pristine and I can cut down the seats (by several feet) to line up the ends with the beams. I can bend some 1-1/4" aluminum conduit to strap to the beams and allow the seats to hinge inwards for travel. This would minimize the boats commitment to the seats. https://www.thebeachcats.…pictures&g2_itemId=10833

The cost of either way is sub $100. If I cut down the wings I won't be ale to sit/trap past the rear beam.

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FYC, Nacra 5.2 "Chris's Flyer" & Nacra Playcat
Previously owned: Trac 14, H14, H16, H18, N5.0, G-cat 5.0
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MN3

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Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: Apr 06, 2024

Posts: 7088
Posted: Aug 27, 2019 - 11:54 AM

I have no idea what hobie did to reinforce the hull, deck and internal support for that wing cavity but it must be pretty substantial

i would be VERY weary trying to duplicate the h17 hull to wing cavity assembly -
this is an area that often fails on h17's and needs repair to make the boat whole

I mean if you are a master epoxier ... than anything is possible so don't let me stop you but ... well you know

My wings fold in for transit - note that i have welded alum tubes into the beam to act as the pivot - not required but will eliminate worming of the pivot holes in the beam and adds structure and strength and stiffness to the entire beam/boat

QuoteThe cost of either way is sub $100. If I cut down the wings I won't be ale to sit/trap past the rear beam.

why would you ever need to have weight past the rear beam (unless racing in heavy air)?
wlrottge

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Registered: Oct 24, 2006

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Posts: 160
Posted: Aug 27, 2019 - 12:14 PM

I wouldn't use PVC, that's for sure!
rch701

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Registered: Jul 06, 2009

Last visit: Mar 28, 2024

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Posted: Aug 27, 2019 - 12:18 PM

Master epoxier is not a title I have ever had. I have patched a lot of holes, but not built a structural component. I was thinking some foam board and lots of random glass and microbubbles. Then again you can only reach one side of any tube. I think I talked myself out of that.

Quotenote that i have welded alum tubes into the beam to act as the pivot
Similar to the mast ball/striker having the tube inside but welded? Sounds good to me.

The only reason I was thinking past the rear beam is because the H17 did that. I have seen plenty of pictures of people standing trapped that far back. Personally I have never trapped that far back.

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FYC, Nacra 5.2 "Chris's Flyer" & Nacra Playcat
Previously owned: Trac 14, H14, H16, H18, N5.0, G-cat 5.0
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MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

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Posts: 7088
Posted: Aug 27, 2019 - 12:37 PM

QuoteSimilar to the mast ball/striker having the tube inside but welded? Sounds good to me.

honestly, i don't know of the dolphin striker post having a tube that it slides in - i don't think it does on my mystere's and i can't recall how my hobie's were fitted

it is welded into place and I added a delrin fitting that the bolt goes into the hole - keeps ss bolt away from alum tube

QuoteThe only reason I was thinking past the rear beam is because the H17 did that. I have seen plenty of pictures of people standing trapped that far back. Personally I have never trapped that far back.

my seats go way back - wish they didn't - just more weight aft that isn't needed

yes in a race, in big air, the crew will go as far back while on the wire, behind and aft of the skipper - often using a chicken wire (lashes him to the boat and prevents him flying forward in a stuff) - i would not be in that spot if i wasn't racing- and since i don't race often ...
loganbetts

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Feb 01, 2014

Last visit: Sep 03, 2019

Posts: 38
Posted: Aug 27, 2019 - 02:04 PM

I would avoid trying anything like the hobie 17 as previously mentioned. While I've never seen one fail, I've cut apart a 17 and there is no way to reinforce it like it is in the 17. I would also say to avoid going straight in the beam (like the 6.0 wings did) as I saw a guy pop a hull strap from too much weight on it in the surf.

Also to place devils advocate, Sailing on 6.0's with/without wings I honestly have to say I prefer it without wings. Granted if I didn't race, and only sailed in lower winds/ less surf I totally understand the appeal. Curious to see what you come up with.

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Saint Simons Island, GA
Saint Simons Surf Sailors

Nacra 6.0NA
Nacra Inter17
Hobie Wave
PSI Laser
AMF Sunfish
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MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: Apr 06, 2024

Posts: 7088
Posted: Aug 27, 2019 - 02:15 PM

QuoteAlso to place devils advocate, Sailing on 6.0's with/without wings I honestly have to say I prefer it without wings. Granted if I didn't race, and only sailed in lower winds/ less surf I totally understand the appeal. Curious to see what you come up with.

Agree - my wings are hanging in my garage for 2 years now
i mean they have their time and place:
they are great for lounging - having pretty girls lying on and standing on so I can flip off every powerboater for miles - but they are not great for sailing fast

they also stink in light air (imho) - they add weight outside and aft of CE - neither make me faster
loganbetts

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Feb 01, 2014

Last visit: Sep 03, 2019

Posts: 38
Posted: Aug 27, 2019 - 02:23 PM

[/quote]
they also stink in light air (imho) - they add weight outside and aft of CE - neither make me faster[/quote]

Oh this is 100% true. The only reason I say light air is they're pretty comfy to sit on waiting for the air to fill in lol.

--
Saint Simons Island, GA
Saint Simons Surf Sailors

Nacra 6.0NA
Nacra Inter17
Hobie Wave
PSI Laser
AMF Sunfish
--
Dogboy

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Registered: Mar 19, 2004

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Posts: 960
Posted: Aug 28, 2019 - 12:09 PM

PVC supports in the hull is definitely not going to work. PVC could potentially be used for the form to make a fiberglass tube, but certainly not for the tube itself. The 17 hull has a fairly substaintial “shoe” that sits in the bottom of the hull to attach the tube to the hull. This needs to be a solid connection or the wing will break out of the hull. It could be replicated, but this is not a weekend project. This would be a very involved project to get the angles and attachment correct. If the angles are even slightly off, the wings are going to bind in the hull. Pretty sure I saw some pics of a H18 that was modified to accept H17 wings a while back. So it can be done, but you need to take the time to make sure it’s done right or you will be trashing a set of wings or hulls.

sm
jlooby

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Registered: Feb 26, 2014

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Posts: 84
Posted: Aug 28, 2019 - 01:16 PM

As an aging post back surgery H17 sailor who also had wings on a Bimare F18HT, I love wings but I would prefer folding wings ala my 1st H18SX. Having wings extend far back is beneficial for me as I can push boat and dig the bow in and with a footstrap aft, ride it out rather than pitchpole.

Now I would not go with the H17 design but having said that, if that is your intent, you can wrap pvc in carbon or even use a carbon sleeve over the pvc (see YouTube where they make bowsprits/booms that way and I did this for my F25C boarding ladder) and the length of the tube and H17 insert if snug would likely be ok. (Note I also wrapped carbon fiber windsurf masts for my F25C net rails). Again, if I was going this route which again I probably wouldn't, I would bed the bottom in carbon and add a full bulkhead top to bottom keep tube in place because this is post-production. With this approach, you're going to need inspection ports in front of and behind bulkheads (although you could reseal the area w/carbon or fiberglass) and the bulkheads will need holes in the bottom to allow water to be drained aft.

James the slow ... and based on the above sailor's posts I can now blame the wings - :)
rch701

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jul 06, 2009

Last visit: Mar 28, 2024

Posts: 383
Posted: Aug 28, 2019 - 03:41 PM

I have pretty much settle on the same method as the N6.0. Below is my design.
https://www.thebeachcats.…ictures?g2_itemId=132145
It will slide out of the beams...I hope. I will have to contend with the crew trap bungee.

If I really hate it I can convert it to a "on the beam" design that hinges. Either route the boat remains not permanently modified.

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FYC, Nacra 5.2 "Chris's Flyer" & Nacra Playcat
Previously owned: Trac 14, H14, H16, H18, N5.0, G-cat 5.0
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revintage

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Registered: Aug 13, 2017

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Posts: 280
Posted: Aug 29, 2019 - 05:28 PM

These are the folding telescopic wings on my widened 5.5.

Edited by revintage on Aug 29, 2019 - 05:29 PM.

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Brgds
Lars

Frankentri 5.8/5.5/Inter20
Aerow trimaran foiler

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1192604934176635
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rch701

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jul 06, 2009

Last visit: Mar 28, 2024

Posts: 383
Posted: Aug 30, 2019 - 11:16 AM

Any recommendations for rise/run for the wings? The taller it is the closer it needs to be to the boat or risk falling in the gap. I am looking for seat height above deck and horizontal distance from gunwale to close edge of seat. I am sending the conduit out to an electrician friend to have hydraulically bent.

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FYC, Nacra 5.2 "Chris's Flyer" & Nacra Playcat
Previously owned: Trac 14, H14, H16, H18, N5.0, G-cat 5.0
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loganbetts

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Feb 01, 2014

Last visit: Sep 03, 2019

Posts: 38
Posted: Sep 03, 2019 - 10:05 AM

revintageThese are the folding telescopic wings on my widened 5.5.

Edited by revintage on Aug 29, 2019 - 05:29 PM.

Out of curiosity, did you simply widen this by using 5.8/6.0 cross beams, or something else?

--
Saint Simons Island, GA
Saint Simons Surf Sailors

Nacra 6.0NA
Nacra Inter17
Hobie Wave
PSI Laser
AMF Sunfish
--
revintage

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 13, 2017

Last visit: Nov 29, 2023

Posts: 280
Posted: Sep 04, 2019 - 03:41 PM

loganbettsOut of curiosity, did you simply widen this by using 5.8/6.0 cross beams, or something else?

I built the rear beam from the original with added 100x5mm sleeves on each side to make it 3m. The front beam is newly built the same way from a 2.5m long 100x2mm tube left over from when I built new 3.2m beams for my 5.8 hulls. Spent some hours by the lathe with the sleeves.

Sketches below:

Edited by revintage on Sep 04, 2019 - 03:49 PM.

--
Brgds
Lars

Frankentri 5.8/5.5/Inter20
Aerow trimaran foiler

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1192604934176635
--
rch701

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jul 06, 2009

Last visit: Mar 28, 2024

Posts: 383
Posted: Sep 05, 2019 - 09:12 AM

That second picture is my back-up option if my wings hang out too far. Right now I am expecting 15" up and 15" out from the gunwale. It appears the H17 is 15" up and 6" out. I can match that if I beam-top mount my elbows. I am hoping my conduit gets bent this coming week. Pics to follow.

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FYC, Nacra 5.2 "Chris's Flyer" & Nacra Playcat
Previously owned: Trac 14, H14, H16, H18, N5.0, G-cat 5.0
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rch701

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jul 06, 2009

Last visit: Mar 28, 2024

Posts: 383
Posted: Oct 14, 2019 - 06:01 PM

New pictures!
https://www.thebeachcats.…ictures?g2_itemId=132143
It is all complete now and ready to sail. Total investment is $275. $250 of that were the wings. I have a beach house rental all next week for testing. I'll let you know how it sails...or fails.

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FYC, Nacra 5.2 "Chris's Flyer" & Nacra Playcat
Previously owned: Trac 14, H14, H16, H18, N5.0, G-cat 5.0
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Dogboy

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Posted: Oct 15, 2019 - 05:40 AM

Looks good. Two comments....

You may want to use something other than wood for your crossbar inserts. Once that wood gets wet and swells, you’re probably going to have a tough time pulling the wings out of the crossbar. I would think something like 1/2” thick UHMW polyethylene would work well.

Also the H17 wings were intended to be installed with the tapered/narrow end of the seat towards the aft end of the boat. You have it facing forward (not sure if that was intentional).

sm
MN3

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Posted: Oct 15, 2019 - 08:09 AM

QuoteYou may want to use something other than wood for your crossbar inserts. Once that wood gets wet and swells,

+1
maybe just gel-coat or epoxy them up to prevent moisture?

also, you may want to put a bolt or pin in that assembly so the wings can't become separated in a capsize (if there isn't something already that i don't see)

looks great - enjoy
rch701

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jul 06, 2009

Last visit: Mar 28, 2024

Posts: 383
Posted: Oct 15, 2019 - 09:00 AM

Dogboy, Totally agree on both points. The wood was what I had on hand. I will sand them for a looser fit and epoxy the edges to prevent swelling. I did not know the wings went the other way. They are symmetrical for mounting and I have not riveted in the elbows yet. I thought it would be good to have the skipper seat further aft which is why I have it that way.

MN3, Its in the works. I was holding off drilling the beams at all until the setup was confirmed. At a minimum I will tie small line across the boat to tension the rigs to each other. I will also likely use one trap line at a lift to take some of the load off the wings. Then again, more crap to hit when pitchpoling/cartwheeling

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FYC, Nacra 5.2 "Chris's Flyer" & Nacra Playcat
Previously owned: Trac 14, H14, H16, H18, N5.0, G-cat 5.0
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