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Rolling up a boomless main  Bottom

  • When I roll the sail for the Nacra it gets really long, and barely fits my sail tube. Is there a way to keep sail as short as possible and not damage it?

    --
    John

    Marstrom Tornado
    Nacra 5.0

    CT
    --
  • I haven’t tried but I guess if you fold it in a couple points it might be better, fold it between battens putting those two battens aligned together. I’m assuming it’s a rather old sail with the battens not parallel the foot, particularly the upper ones



    Edited by Andinista on Aug 24, 2019 - 01:33 PM.
  • Sounds like you are rolling it from the bottom to the top as it comes down. It is always best to drop the sail all the way down and roll from the top to the bottom. Fold the sail to the 2nd or 3rd batten and start rolling. The main reason most manufactures suggest this way is if you are sailing in a bit of a breeze and you gat some spray on your sails and roll them from the bottom to the top, you are trapping moisture in the very in side of the roll. Not good for the sails. Let us know if it fits in your sail tube any better this way.
  • The latest attempt was bottom up. I have tried top down without folds. Will try the folds suggested.

    Do you wind the bolt rope in a spiral with ropes touching? The rope seems the only indicator of rolling up cylindrically vs helical.

    --
    John

    Marstrom Tornado
    Nacra 5.0

    CT
    --
  • After you fold it to the 2nd or 3rd batten and start rolling just make sure that the next batten is in line with the roll. You do not want part of a batten to wrap around the roll but in line with it.
  • I am also curious if there is a "right" way. I have rolled both ways and haven't noticed a large difference besides the hassle of unrolling the whole sail to hoist for top first. My dinghy racing experience says fold over the top batten (most dinghies have a full upper batten) and then roll along the leech to keep the bolt from bunching in one spot. When I reach each batten I make sure it is parallel with the roll by sliding my roll to match. Usually an inch or two.

    --
    Robert
    83' NACRA 5.0
    81' NACRA 5.2
    Previously owned H18, Trac 14, G-Cat 5.0, H14T
    BYC, Mobile, AL
    --
  • there is no "right way"
    each way has pros and cons (like most things on a boat)

    if you roll top down - you get the benefit Hullfier mentioned - wet pannels have a better chance of drying off and this is a pretty simple way to single hand the sail

    bottom up allows you to hoist next time without unrolling the entire sail and a bit easier for hoisting

    if you really care about preserving your sail - you should reduce the batten tension each time you store it (esp if wet and esp if long term)

    If you really care about your sails - you would rinse them off every now and again and every time they get salt water on them


    when i roll up my sails :
    I release my battens
    i roll top down
    i put my top (angled) batten in the second slot down
    i fold over the top of the sail between batten 2 and 3
    i start to roll up the sail and continue to move my body down the sail as it gets wider (so i am in the center of the sail at all times)
    i don't worry at all about the luff/bolt rope - it naturally coils outward as i roll (the head of the sail is still in the center of the roll but the luff/bolt rope is not all in 1 bundle)

    put in bag - put in sailbox -done till i am home
    at home - take out of sailbox (it is a hot humid mess in there in florida) and place in garage or better yet / inside my climate controlled home (my spare bedroom currently has 5 sails in it)
  • MN3, great info. I have lots of sails indoors too. That may be a topic for another thread.
  • QuoteI have lots of sails indoors too. That may be a topic for another thread.

    probably worth saying here too:
    if you like your gear - treat it like you want it to last

    all gear that gets salt on it (sails, pfd, gloves, hat, etc) / or grease or oil etc should be rinsed off and maybe even gently "washed"

    i wash the boat with soap and water every time it gets home. I put all the spars and rudders and sailing gear on the boat and usually get some soap suds on the fabric items too

    As Andrew from the Tackles Shack said to me : treat your gear like garments and they will last
    throw them in a hot wet trunk for a few months and you will be replacing them much faster than if you cared for them



    Edited by MN3 on Aug 26, 2019 - 12:01 PM.
  • MN3if you roll top down - you get the benefit Hullfier mentioned - wet pannels have a better chance of drying off and this is a pretty simple way to single hand the sail bottom up allows you to hoist next time without unrolling the entire sail and a bit easier for hoisting
    if you really care about preserving your sail - you should reduce the batten tension each time you store it (esp if wet and esp if long term)
    If you really care about your sails - you would rinse them off every now and again and every time they get salt water on them

    when i roll up my sails :
    I release my battens
    i roll top down
    i put my top (angled) batten in the second slot down
    i fold over the top of the sail between batten 2 and 3
    i start to roll up the sail and continue to move my body down the sail as it gets wider (so i am in the center of the sail at all times)
    i don't worry at all about the luff/bolt rope - it naturally coils outward as i roll (the head of the sail is still in the center of the roll but the luff/bolt rope is not all in 1 bundle)

    put in bag - put in sailbox -done till i am home


    Well stated, and I absolutely agree with this.
    My sails are 32 years old, still crispy, and I continue to race with them.

    --
    Sheet In!
    Bob
    ___/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
    Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
    Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
    AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
    (Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
    Arizona, USA
    --
  • MN3if you roll top down - you get the benefit Hullfier mentioned - wet pannels have a better chance of drying off and this is a pretty simple way to single hand the sail bottom up allows you to hoist next time without unrolling the entire sail and a bit easier for hoisting
    if you really care about preserving your sail - you should reduce the batten tension each time you store it (esp if wet and esp if long term)
    If you really care about your sails - you would rinse them off every now and again and every time they get salt water on them

    when i roll up my sails :
    I release my battens
    i roll top down
    i put my top (angled) batten in the second slot down
    i fold over the top of the sail between batten 2 and 3
    i start to roll up the sail and continue to move my body down the sail as it gets wider (so i am in the center of the sail at all times)
    i don't worry at all about the luff/bolt rope - it naturally coils outward as i roll (the head of the sail is still in the center of the roll but the luff/bolt rope is not all in 1 bundle)

    put in bag - put in sailbox -done till i am home


    Well stated, and I absolutely agree with this.
    My sails are 32 years old, still crispy, and I continue to race with them.
    I had a sailmaker make me a sail bag that has a half-length zipper and is twice the diameter of the original bag, so I do not roll the main tight. After cleaning and thorough drying at home, I roll the two sails up together loosely with the luffs aligned and the main folded at the third batten. It's Arizona, so they lie dry and dark nestled in my cat box until the next adventure.

    --
    Sheet In!
    Bob
    ___/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
    Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
    Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
    AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
    (Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
    Arizona, USA
    --
  • Does the fold at the third batten work with newer non dacron sails?

    --
    John

    Marstrom Tornado
    Nacra 5.0

    CT
    --
  • ctcatamanDoes the fold at the third batten work with newer non dacron sails?

    yes - any material - can be done on the jib too if it doesn't have battens or they can be removed
  • Just remember that folding the sail and storing it that way is hard on mylar.
  • wlrottgeJust remember that folding the sail and storing it that way is hard on mylar.

    how else can you store a sail that doesn't have some detrimental effect?
  • Folding the sail at the batten puts a hard bend in it at that location. If it's going in the bag for more than a night, I roll it from the top.
  • wlrottgeFolding the sail at the batten puts a hard bend in it at that location. If it's going in the bag for more than a night, I roll it from the top.


    do you mean an older mylar pintop?

    because on alll my modern flat top sails, there is lots of headboard around the top few sections and it really doesn't put a hard bend in it (what i call a fold mark on a sail)
    it doesn't stay tightly rolled - after a few turns the center unwinds a little
  • Regardless of pintop or square head, I've rolled them all the same; the difference was in which batten you rolled from.

    I haven't owned a pinhead mainsail for... ten years? Regardless though, if the sail is going to be put away for more than a day or two, I pull the top batten and roll it from the top. I've seen enough mylar sails fail where the fold was to know that it can't be a coincidence. I had an 18-2 sail years ago that looked great.... except for the massive delamination and cracking right where it was folded. Mylar shrinks and becomes more brittle with age, so why give it more opportunity/reason to fail?

    An A-cat sail can't be rolled from the middle and sails like my N20FCS sails are heavy enough that they make the fold worse. It isn't any harder or slower to roll the sail from the top; the only penalty you pay is when you have to fully unroll it the next time you use it.
  • i was (poorly) trying to figure out what you were calling a mylar sail

    modern sails can still use mylar layers (film) above and below the scrim material

    i have never owned an older mylar sail except the exploded one that came with my 5.5
    but i know they crease very badly
  • Basically anything now is "mylar" because as you said, it has a mylar scrim on both sides with structural material sandwiched in the middle. I've seen some interesting cloth on tris that looks like mylar, but is much softer and more pliable, but it's also heavier. Haven't looked into what it is, however suspect that it behaves similarly to mylar when rolled for long periods of time.

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