Maximizing a Catamaran's Ability to Sail Close to the Wind
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Posted: Oct 24, 2018 - 08:02 AM
Ok, thanks to Bacho and MN3 for the replies on this question. Having some aviation experience, I understand that the shape of an airfoil has the max draft forward. So to confirm regarding draft changes you see when sails get older, it's when the max draft moves aft.
And MN3's comment that he sees his leech flapping was very spot on regarding the jib. In an effort to reduce that, I was playing with moving my jib sheet block forward in the track and sheeting in hard - but I was not seeing it produce the results hoped for. (One of the vids I posted above mentions how you tighten the jib leech by moving the jib car forward; while moving the car aft tightens the jib foot.)
Bacho said: "A new jib with good shape will likely really be beneficial to you club racing." Well, coincidentally, I was thinking about maybe starting by getting a new jib, and seeing what that does. (Obviously would be a lot cheaper than getting a new main.) Any particular reason you focused on the jib though? Are you thinking a new jib would possibly play a bigger role in helping improve my sailing-closer-to-the-wind issues than a main?
Also, do you guys have suggestions for where to look to get a jib at the best value? Someone suggested SLO sails was good, but their website is saying "we cannot currently make this product." I saw one other website with somewhat cheaper prices, but it's like shooting in the dark for me since I don't know the mfrs. My sails were made by Ullmann, but they don't list the product on their website, and I don't know that I necessarily need to go back to them, even though I understand they're a great sailmaker. Actually, the club is closing here in 14 days, so maybe I'll save my $ til the spring, but it would still be good to know where to go.
Edited by CatFan57 on Oct 24, 2018 - 09:42 AM.
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1998 P18.2
Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
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Posted: Oct 24, 2018 - 08:06 AM
deleted
Edited by CatFan57 on Oct 24, 2018 - 09:08 AM.
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1998 P18.2
Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
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Posted: Oct 24, 2018 - 10:38 AM
I have used Schurr Sails in Pensacola FL. Great sails, great service, great price.
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Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL
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Posted: Oct 24, 2018 - 12:31 PM
I've received quality sails from Elliot Pattison and Glaser Sails. Chip at Whirlwind is less expensive and good to deal with. -
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Posted: Oct 24, 2018 - 12:47 PM
I don't want to speak for Bacho (and his input is very good/valuable) but imho - a jib gets blown out faster and probably a bit more severe than a main will (lots of abuse from tacking/whacking the mast) and when replacing a jib people typically go with a very similar shape / material so there is no new learning curve compared to going from a 10 or 20 year old sail design/material to a modern one
also a jib is kinda like a turbo that "forces air" into the engine (main) and when blown out ... disrupts this
so putting a new/modern turbo on an old engine will improve performance even if the engine is worn
and the cost is 1/4th of a new main (give or take)
and lastly - a new jib (ceteris paribus) creates less disruptive air to the main vs an old jib that will cause disruption to the main ... so even if the main is new, it has already had it's air flow effected
I have used Doyle - I do not recommend them (they are a franchise so any given location can be very different)
I have used Sail Technologies for repairs and liked their work
I know many people LOVE Glassier sails
I know many people have lots of success with landenberger sails and i owned a main from them - very well built
As mentioned above: Schurr Sails,Elliot Pattison and Glaser Sails and Chip at Whirlwind all have good reputations
I worked with chip a decade ago to build me a sail - it didn't come to fruition but he was wonderful to work with and i THINK i am gonna contact him for a new jib or 2 -
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Posted: Oct 24, 2018 - 12:47 PM
interesting read on jib's performance - even though its for a mono ... still interesting data
https://forums.sailboatow…pointing-ability.134628/ -
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Posted: Oct 24, 2018 - 04:33 PM
CatFan57,
You'll find some useful data and photos for your Two here:
https://www.thebeachcats.…ictures?g2_itemId=123714
Edited by klozhald on Oct 24, 2018 - 03:34 PM.
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Sheet In!
Bob
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Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
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Posted: Oct 25, 2018 - 07:29 AM
Okay guys, thanks to everyone who responded with recommendations on where to get a jib, much appreciated. I'll be looking into it. Just wish had done it sooner so could have had it for the season and seen what it could do.
Also, thanks to MN3 on the good info/ideas as to (a) why a jib's likely to get blown out sooner, and (b) why it might be more critical to replace, i.e., since it sets the air for the main -- I find those points completely convincing and logical - especially for a boat like mine w/ a relatively large jib.
Klozhald, thanks for the link to the P18.2 pages. Lots of good info in there I've started reading. Am impressed by the photo of Bob Martinez solo-trapping the P19 in the Santa Barbara channel (respect for you solo ocean sailors), and liked the photo of you single-hulling the P18.2 in Roosevelt Lake in AZ (which I'd never heard of) in 1987. Looks like you've gotten many years of pleasure out of your boat.
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1998 P18.2
Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
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Posted: Oct 25, 2018 - 02:52 PM
You could sell both sails and have enough money to buy a jib. But then you’d need to buy a new main. But you would not feel guilty about it because you can’t sail with only a jib... -
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Posted: Oct 26, 2018 - 07:41 AM
Brilliant strategy! -
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Posted: Oct 27, 2018 - 01:45 AM
Ah, interesting approach, always good to find a way to feel good about spending $ on sailing.
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1998 P18.2
Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
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Posted: Oct 29, 2018 - 06:30 PM
+1
Arvel Gentry (among others) estimated that 80% of a sail's power comes from the leeward side, just like an airplane's wing. Having a jib that creates a proper slot to pass wind back to the leeward side of the main is all good.
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Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
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