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Raising the Mainsail  Bottom

  • Raising the main on the Tornado and Hobie 16 is very difficult. Sail stay inside but boats stay out on a fine sand beach. We have tried lubricating track and sail to no avail. Granted sails are older. I practically need to sit on a bowline in the halyard the last 1/4. It wrecks my hands, even with gloves. Thought I would ask here. Thinking it's dirt that is not visible, or maybe a winch is in order. Sail tracks are straight, not pinched.

    --
    John

    Houlton Tornado
    Hobie Wave (2)
    Hobie 16 - on Craigslist
    AMF Force 5
    AMF MiniFish
    O'DAY Javelin (sold)

    CT
    --
  • Try cleaning out the mast tracks first.
    Take a cleaner that is high alcohol content, so it will evaporate quickly after application, and not stain the sail if any remnants left.
    Use a cloth wrapped around a pencil and track the pencil up and down the track with cloth around pencil and cleaner absorbed in cloth.
    I then use dry lube in the track and use another cloth and pencil trick to spread the dry lube throughout.
    If mast is straight and bolt rope on sail is not in bad shape, it has to be in the track or lastly, check your halyard to insure its not getting hung up in track or around any pulley.
    Also check for dings in mast track, especially in area where it seems to be tightening up.

    --
    Supercat 15
    Windrider 17
    Several Sunfish and Sunfish clones
    Ratboat built from Zuma and Sunfish parts
    Shallow water sailor in the Delaware Bay
    --
  • One other thing.
    I have two OEM sails for my supercat and one slides easily up the track and the other is a bear to raise. The difference is in the bolt rope on the mainsail. It isn't much of a difference, but it is enough to make me get out heavy duty gloves (big leather work gloves, not sailing gloves) to raise that sail.
    If your sails are old, you could be getting some loose area around the bolt rope that is hanging it up and by the time you get 3/4 up, it's just too much length of friction.
    Can't hurt to try the above remedies, regardless.

    --
    Supercat 15
    Windrider 17
    Several Sunfish and Sunfish clones
    Ratboat built from Zuma and Sunfish parts
    Shallow water sailor in the Delaware Bay
    --
  • ctcatamanRaising the main on the Tornado and Hobie 16 is very difficult. Sail stay inside but boats stay out on a fine sand beach. We have tried lubricating track and sail to no avail. Granted sails are older. I practically need to sit on a bowline in the halyard the last 1/4. It wrecks my hands, even with gloves. Thought I would ask here. Thinking it's dirt that is not visible, or maybe a winch is in order. Sail tracks are straight, not pinched.


    windwardde is right about cleaning and old bolt ropes . Using dry lube
    might help.
    One question, is the masthead-sheave still round and rotating ?

    http://www.murrays.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/50-60620000.jpg

    On my old P18-2 it was split in two halves, jamming the halyard. And on
    another occasion it became oval and stuck preventing any movement.

    Using gloves and/or wrecking your hands raising the last few inches of
    the main is not necessary.
    I use a piece of alu tube, 1 1/2 inch diameter, about a foot long, wrap the
    halyard around it and pull it using two hands, standing behind the rear beam .
    One foot on the rear beam gives you enormous pulling power.
    If for some reason the halyard-ring won't hook or unhook, you can do the
    same standing on the tramp near the mast, pulling the halyard up with two
    hands with the tube and using you're knee pushing the mast-rotator in the
    required direction.
    With crew you can have the crew rotate the mast and guide the mainsail
    while you remain at the rear-beam.

    Grtz, A



    Edited by catmodding on Mar 19, 2017 - 05:29 PM.

    --
    Tornado (80's Reg White)
    Prindle 18-2 (sold)
    Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
    13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
    Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.

    Amsterdam, the Netherlands
    --
  • One of the most important things is to have the boat pointed directly into the wind. If the sail is being blown to the side, it can add enormous ammounts of resistance.

    As others have said, check the condition/function of the halyard sheaves and halyard line. Using a smaller dialeter line can allow the system to operate more smoothly.

    Un-roll the sail and lay it on the tramp before hoisting. If you are trying to hoist a rolled sail, you will have more resistance.

    Spray the first 8 feet or so of sail track with silicone lube to help reduce friction.

    We sometimes use a pair of pliers as a handle on the halyard (the same pliers which are always stored on the boat. Wrap the halyard around the pliers several times and tie off with a basic knot if needed. Then put your foot on the rear crossbar or transom and pull.

    It helps a lot to have someone guide the sail in the track while you hoist.

    sm
  • Another relevant thing is how you feed the sail into the track, on my boat i grab the sail say 30 cm below with my left hand and push it forward towards the mast but not down, so i don't add more resistance. I didn't realize how relevant this is until i payed attention. The main issue to avoid is the bolt rope getting caught at the track, it happens more often that you would think, at least on my boat. Most of the time it's doesnt get completely blocked but just adds more friction.
  • I had the Bolt rope replaced 2-years ago at Sail Care in Ford City, PA. It made an amazing difference. The sail looks and runs like new. If you have tape repairs or fraying along the bolt rope, you would benefit greatly from a replacement. I think that plus a new zipper on the jib was around $370. Pretty good money, but worth it.

    --
    Tom
    NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
    Pennsylvania
    --
  • Another trick that helps a lot is not only having someone guide the sail into the track but actually pushing the sail
    up the mast track. The batten pockets make a good place to push and then you are only raising the sail and not
    dragging it up off of the tramp.

    Pete

    --
    Pete Knapp
    Castleton,NY
    Sailcraft Tornado,Nacra 6.0, P16,H16,H14 turbo,Reg White Tornado(project),H18 Mag(sold),H18 (sold)
    --
  • i would clean (as mentioned above)
    lube (ditto) and use a wooden wedge to "calibrate" the track.

    i.e. - take a wedge (think door stop) and place it into the track. Draw a line on that wedge and walk it up and down the entire lenght of the track. you will be able to see if the track is pinched somewhere (can happen from lowering the mast to hard into the yoke, tying down the mast to the yoke too hard, or a pot hole in the road slamming the mast track onto the yoke - or if you have ever demasted and it hit on the track area)...

    if it is pinched.. use the wooden wedge to spread the track slightly (this will require a mallet or similar.

    that being said - it's more likely a swollen bolt rope on an older sail. get it replaced for under $200 at a loft
  • I have found the bolt rope is usually the culprit. Older sails, the bolt rope tends to get fat with age. I was having the same problem and just for kicks, borrowed someone's new sail to try on what I thought was my mast having a problem. I could pull that new sail up with one hand. So my solution was to loosen the batten tension on my old sail. It went up easier, but still not easy.

    Good Luck
  • If it is the bolt rope expansion that's the culprit, I guess there really isn't a fix.

    --
    John

    Houlton Tornado
    Hobie Wave (2)
    Hobie 16 - on Craigslist
    AMF Force 5
    AMF MiniFish
    O'DAY Javelin (sold)

    CT
    --
  • ctcatamanIf it is the bolt rope expansion that's the culprit, I guess there really isn't a fix.


    The fix is very easy. A sail shop can replace the bolt rope and will completely rebuild the sail luff to be like new. The cost is $200-$300 and is a common repair.

    --
    Tom
    NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
    Pennsylvania
    --
  • ctcatamanIf it is the bolt rope expansion that's the culprit, I guess there really isn't a fix.

    If the luff of the sail is in good shape, you can change out the bolt rope yourself.

    Cut the sewing from both ends of the bolt rope.
    Sew the new rope end to the old one.
    Stretch the sail taut from the head plate and the downhaul grommet.
    (I use trees in my back yard, and the mainsheet blocks to do this)
    Pull the new into place, and cut off the old part..
    The sew the new bolt rope in place like the old one was.
    Three strand twisted nylon works best as a replacement.

    --
    Sheet In!
    Bob
    Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
    AZ Multihull Fleet 42
    (Way) Past Commodore, Prindle Fleet 14
    Arizona, USA
    --
  • What about using Sailkote in the mast track and bolt rope? Wouldn't that help?



    Edited by martyr on Mar 23, 2017 - 09:06 PM.

    --
    Marty
    1984 Hobie 16 "Yellow Fever"
    Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
    --
  • martyrWhat about using Sailkote in the mast track and bolt rope? Wouldn't that help?Edited by martyr on Mar 23, 2017 - 09:06 PM.

    that was mentioned several times above

    Ps - spraying that track is not optimal - and sailkote is crazy expensive - you will spray the back and sides of the track mostly, and those areas are not touching the boltrope/sail. the best method i have found was to liberaly coat some soft cloth, like an old t-shirt then wrap that around a bit of pencil, or similar shaped object (like a sail track slug) and run that up and down your track slot. Take it out a few times to recoat with sailkote. that will coat all the same spots the boltrope does and nothing else



    Edited by MN3 on Mar 24, 2017 - 11:43 AM.
  • MN3 brings up a good point that I haven't seen in this thread- clean the mast sail track.
    Lay the mast curf up and run some water in the curf to soften up whatever is caked in there.
    Then scrub it with MN3's pencil-stub-in-a-cloth and see what you get outta there.
    Make your scrubber big enough to scrub all sides of the curf.

    My mast is stored outside, curf up all year, and collects a bit of gunk from rain followed by dust storms.

    --
    Sheet In!
    Bob
    Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
    AZ Multihull Fleet 42
    (Way) Past Commodore, Prindle Fleet 14
    Arizona, USA
    --
  • if your mast is up, you can do something like this:
    (not a bottle of liquid, but a mast track sail slug or similar, with a halyard attached on top, and a retrieval line on the bottom

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvs3yK9ISFg



    Edited by MN3 on Mar 24, 2017 - 12:58 PM.
  • Being that sailkote is kind of pricey, is there an alternative lube spray, or other, that would be non staining? I get that what needs to be lubed is the inside lip of the mast track, that is the area that is mostly in contact with the bolt rope.

    --
    Marty
    1984 Hobie 16 "Yellow Fever"
    Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
    --

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