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Help with Nacra hull/crossbar issue  Bottom

  • greatlake

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    Link to this post Posted: Mar 20, 2016 - 05:03 PM
    Hi - I want to get into cat sailing and have been looking for an early 80's H18 or Nacra 5.8 for use on the great lakes. I have a possible old Nacra5.8 lined up that seems to be in decent shape but I have noted some issues that I'm uncertain about - I just don't know whether they are a big deal or not. Any opinions?

    Here are the issues I see:
    1. Inboard strap on the forward crossbar has cracked the fiberglass lifting away from the hull slightly
    2. The hulls generally feel firm but one of the hulls has been pretty extensively epoxied on the top in one section
    3. The rear crossbar has a modest dent
    4. After reading posts in this forum I took a good look at the rear of the hulls where the rudder attaches. I see hairline cracks in the paint on one hull

    What do you think? Reason for worry? Photos below. Thank you!

    http://www.thebeachcats.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=120580&g2_serialNumber=4

    http://www.thebeachcats.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=120596&g2_serialNumber=4

    http://www.thebeachcats.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=120594&g2_serialNumber=4

    http://www.thebeachcats.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=120588&g2_serialNumber=4

    http://www.thebeachcats.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=120590&g2_serialNumber=4



    Edited by greatlake on Mar 20, 2016 - 05:26 PM.
  • greatlake

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    Link to this post Posted: Mar 20, 2016 - 05:26 PM
    Fixed the photos
  • Wolfman
    Wolfman
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    Link to this post Posted: Mar 20, 2016 - 07:10 PM
    Well that looks like a tonne of fun!

    Photo 1 - major problem, you need to pull the decking off the hull and find out what is happening inside. Likely the aluminum plate inside has delaminated and overtightening the bolt and stress caused the issue. A number of ways to fix it but you need inside access to do it properly. If the plat is intact you will need to epoxy and fiberglass it into place and also to a repair on the plastic from the outside. Its not as scary as it sounds but its a few days work.

    Photo 2 - could be someone was trying to fix a leak? Again not something you want to leave without investigating, grind off the epoxy and remove the decking (by progresively working a sharp putty knife between the deck and the hull all around). Fix any problems inside and smooth mating surfaces at deck and hull and re-attach with thickened epoxy.

    Photo 3 - A dent like that in a cross bar isn't normally anything to worry about. Lots of cross bars with small dents and drill holes in them.

    Photo 4 - That cold also indicate a major issue with the transoms. Again you would half to probably cut a port behind the crossbar to inspect and fix.

    Photo 5 - not sure what I'm seeing there. Again dents and scrapes in a crossbar are pretty normally, as long as they are straight and round you should be OK.

    Verdict. If you are thinking of buying this pass on it unless it is dirt cheap and you want a project boat. If you have it you will probably be spending the better part of a week on pulling off decks and fixing issues. Probably about 300-500 worth of epoxy, fiberglass, tools and gelcoat. Makes me also nervous about the other parts.

    D.

    --
    Dave Bonin
    1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
    1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
    --
  • greatlake

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    Link to this post Posted: Mar 20, 2016 - 08:31 PM
    Wolfman this is really helpful, thanks for the swift reply. I'm going to give this one another critical look with your comments in mind. I know any 30yr old boat will have its share of warts, but these sound pretty involved...particularly #1. Good to know
  • Wolfman
    Wolfman
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    Link to this post Posted: Mar 20, 2016 - 10:53 PM
    Yeah, I think you could probably find one in better condition in the great lakes area. I see lots of boats out that way using searchtempest. Keep your eyes open for Hobie 18s, Nacra 5.5s, 5.7s and 5.8s. Also look into the Prindles. Lots of parts for all those boats available. You may also see Mysteres and Darts, really good boats but rarer. When looking at 30+ year old boats condition is everything. This one looks like it was abused a bit. There are quite a few low mileage boats our there to be had!

    --
    Dave Bonin
    1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
    1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
    --
  • nacraman57
    nacraman57
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    Link to this post Posted: Mar 21, 2016 - 10:30 PM
    By the looks of the hulls, I'll bet the sails are blown out rags.....walk away from this one!
  • nacraman57
    nacraman57
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    Link to this post Posted: Mar 21, 2016 - 10:31 PM
    By the looks of the hulls, I'll bet the sails are blown out rags.....walk away from this one!
  • Wolfman
    Wolfman
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    Link to this post Posted: Mar 21, 2016 - 11:19 PM
    Nacraman57 is much more succinct and likely correct. Besides he knows a good boat. :)

    --
    Dave Bonin
    1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
    1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
    --
  • DamonLinkous
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    Link to this post Posted: Mar 21, 2016 - 11:37 PM
    Yes, knowing when to walk away is important. Unless this is the only possible boat you could get it's probably not worth it. The old repairs do not look good.

    I once rode along with a new sailor who was looking to buy his first beachcat, the pictures looked great and the price seemed right. The boat was 200 miles away and when we got there the owner had everything clean and spread out in the back yard for inspection. He was very proud of the "repair work" he had done on the decks, it was an abomination, but the newby sailor probably would have bought it anyway if I hadn't been there.

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  • Wolfman
    Wolfman
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    Link to this post Posted: Mar 22, 2016 - 01:05 AM
    Yeah having bought 3 nacras myself and helped people buy a half dozen more I've gotten pretty good at identifying normal wear and tear from real damage and abuse/ignorant repairs. There are lots of little things first time buyers get over concerned with while missing bigger issues. And sometimes big problems can hide behind crappy patches. A lot of pretty ugly things can be repaired but that is time off the water and headaches you don't need when starting out. Believe me I'm still dealing with issues I found on my 5.2 after the fact. But I did do major surgery on my 5.7 this summer and other than a slight color mismatch in the gel coat ithe glass repair is stronger an unnoticeable now. And if I can do it it shows there is no excuse for crappy looking repairs! This boat has some serious problems.

    --
    Dave Bonin
    1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
    1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
    --
  • MN3
    MN3
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    Link to this post Posted: Mar 22, 2016 - 09:48 AM
    I agree this doesn't look like a great boat to buy unless you want a project.

    No offence but, I don't understand why you would comment about the sails... that is a complete unknown and guess... Let's stick to what we can see ... assuming and guessing the state of unknown parts is not valuable info


    nacraman57By the looks of the hulls, I'll bet the sails are blown out rags.....walk away from this one!




    Edited by MN3 on Mar 22, 2016 - 10:01 AM.
  • nacraman57
    nacraman57
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    Link to this post Posted: Mar 22, 2016 - 10:33 PM
    QuoteNo offence but, I don't understand why you would comment about the sails... that is a complete unknown and guess... Let's stick to what we can see ... assuming
    Quote
    This boat has some serious problems.
    Can't remember what sailing website I was on but the subject was the decline in sailing participation in the US. What was eye opening was the fact that the people leaving sailing aren't the old timers.....it is the young folks who buy a boat, sail for a couple years and drop out. The reasons are...1) The expense...2)The sense of being outside of an "exclusive" club and 3) Not being competitive or "good enough"....because when there are two boats on the water...it's "game on!". Instead of offering advice to a new interested sailor on how to resurrect a piece of crap boat we should steer him or her on to a boat of value that would provide a pleasurable sailing experience. What could be more frustrating for a newby than to pour time and money into a set of hulls only to find out the sails are crap? I have never been "burned" or disappointed in any of my many catamaran purchases because I have "walked away" from far more than I can count. So, greatlake,....if you are still following this thread, unless you have a lot of fiberglass/epoxy/gelcoat experience,or, the boat is going for little or nothing, for a first time boat, my advice stands.....walk away. And, judging from the pictures, I would also suggest that the daggerboards and rudders are beat up junk also.
  • sglasser

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    Link to this post Posted: Mar 24, 2016 - 03:40 PM
    I have a 5.8 that I race in Gulf Port, FL in the Winter and the Great Lakes in the summer (CRAM). I have owned it for 4 years. Run, don't walk away from this boat. The NACRA 5.8 is a great boat for the great lakes. The buoyancy in the hulls really saves the bottom on the rocks and such at least in Lake Erie. The cross member dents don't worry me as much as the hulls. The crack at the strapping point is a real problem that is a sign of worse things to come. I'm going to move to an F18 this summer and my 5.8 is going to be up for sale. If you want to chat more you can PM me or get me through my email. Good luck and the older NACRA 5.2 or 5.8 are worth the effort to find. I have new sails from the factory in Amsterdam which I visit a couple of times a year and they really support the older boats.sgabxair@gmail.com
  • greatlake

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    Link to this post Posted: Mar 27, 2016 - 09:40 PM
    Hi guys - thanks for all of the thoughts. I'm a modestly experienced cat sailor but this is the first time I've looked at owning, so definitely appreciate the cautionary words about the hull condition and work/risk implied. I am going to consider a very low offer for this one and keep hunting
  • tnell
    tnell
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    Link to this post Posted: Jul 11, 2016 - 01:36 AM
    [quote=DamonLinkous]Yes, knowing when to walk away is important. Unless this is the only possible boat you could get it's probably not worth it. The old repairs do not look good.

    I once rode along with a new sailor who was looking to buy his first beachcat, the pictures looked great and the price seemed right. The boat was 200 miles away and when we got there the owner had everything clean and spread out in the back yard for inspection. He was very proud of the "repair work" he had done on the decks, it was an abomination, but the newby sailor probably would have bought it anyway if I hadn't been there.[/quote


    Nah,

    I was never gonna buy that boat. I just felt bad for dragging you all the way over there. Tim came over and looked at the 5.7. Now I'm having second thoughts. Maybe I need to clean it up and sail it instead of sell it.

    --
    Tim
    Collierville (Memphis), TN
    Supercat 15--sold :(
    Hobie monocat--given
    Vanguard 15--traded for...
    Nacra 4.5--sold
    Nacra 5.7
    Hobie 14–sold to make room for...
    Supercat 17–sold
    --
  • DamonLinkous
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    Link to this post Posted: Jul 11, 2016 - 02:12 PM
    tnell
    Nah,

    I was never gonna buy that boat. I just felt bad for dragging you all the way over there. Tim came over and looked at the 5.7. Now I'm having second thoughts. Maybe I need to clean it up and sail it instead of sell it.


    Ha, maybe.

    I wish you would give it another go, great times at the DSA, lots of new sailors and boats since you were active. Do it soon before someone makes you an offer you can't refuse for your 5.7. icon_biggrin

    --
    Damon Linkous
    1992 Hobie 18
    Memphis, TN

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  • tnell
    tnell
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    Link to this post Posted: Jul 11, 2016 - 03:27 PM
    Congrats on 3rd! Really thinking about Juana's as I have vacation that week and the kiddo is off to college.

    --
    Tim
    Collierville (Memphis), TN
    Supercat 15--sold :(
    Hobie monocat--given
    Vanguard 15--traded for...
    Nacra 4.5--sold
    Nacra 5.7
    Hobie 14–sold to make room for...
    Supercat 17–sold
    --
  • JohnES

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    Link to this post Posted: Jul 11, 2016 - 04:17 PM
    sglasser Run, don't walk away from this boat.


    Best advice yet!

    This pics you have show a lot of refab work to be done.. this would be a great parts boat for someone that already has a 5.8.... as the parts are getting hard to come by.



    Edited by JohnES on Jul 11, 2016 - 04:18 PM.

    --
    John Schwartz
    Ventura, CA
    --

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