I have an opportunity to pick up an H20 for a great price and would like input regarding learning on this cat. I would prefer to get a cat to keep rather than try to trade up since selling a boat can be tricky. My thinking is as follows:
- Start out using just the main and get comfortable with it solo.
- Bring my wife out in very light wind and start to use the jib
- No flying hulls for now
- After about a dozen practice sessions start to test the boat and us.
What does this group think about this strategy? Any suggetions either way would be welcome?
Learning on a Hobie 20 Miracle
-
- Rank: Lubber
- Registered: Jul 20, 2014
- Last visit: Jul 08, 2015
- Posts: 5
Posted: Aug 06, 2014 - 01:50 PM
-
- Rank: Master Chief
- Registered: Jun 20, 2006
- Last visit: Apr 06, 2024
- Posts: 7088
Posted: Aug 06, 2014 - 02:03 PM
depending on where you live i guess it could be tricky but hobie 16's are all over the world and easy as pie to buy and sell (as long as you live near water) - prindle 16's are not as common but there are 1000's of them all around too.
2 train of thoughts ...
1. start out with an easy to manage boat
less control lines to manage
less micro adjusters that will take a while to learn
less of a chance of you getting in over your head that can be very frustrating and discouraging and i have seen many people buy a catamaran, go out a few times, get in over their head and get caught in rough weather and quit the sport because it was such a bad experience
2. start out with a complex boat and learn from the get-go how to manage everything
most start out with #1 and i usually recommend that to most people
pros don't start out racing a formula 1 car, they start out on a go-carts, and smaller rides and step up as skills improve
so unless you are totally gung-ho, know for 100% sure you will love the challenges and dont mind taking your lumps... go for it, but it's NOT hard to find/buy/sell catamarans ... i would recommend to most to start out with an easy boat - ESP if you plan to single hand it
PS how are you going to step the mast and get on and off the beach solo? -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Mar 19, 2004
- Last visit: Apr 12, 2024
- Posts: 960
Posted: Aug 06, 2014 - 02:21 PM
Question 1- do you have any beach cat or sailing experience?
Question 2 - would you feel comfortable teaching someone who had never driven before how to drive in a ferrari? That is essentially what you are talking about doing.
The Hobie 20 is at exact opposite end of the performance spectrum from where you want to or should be. I know it seems like it shouldn't make that much difference, but it does. The Hobie 20 is a full on racing boat - fast, powerful, complex, and fragile. If you stick to wind under 10mph maybe you can be successful but the problem is the day you get caught out in a decent blow you're going to be in trouble. That boat is a handful even for experienced sailors when the wind comes up.
My opinion, it is probably not the boat you should get (and yes, I used to own one).
sm -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Jul 20, 2011
- Last visit: Apr 07, 2019
- Posts: 323
Posted: Aug 06, 2014 - 04:26 PM
#1 the Hobie 20 is no go solo unless you're a pro sailor. You'll be flying a hull weather you want to or not in any wind above 10mph solo unless you totally de power the boat not to mention the huge mast and 420lbs of boat you'll be lugging in and out of the water ( it's tough with two people ).
My advise is to buy a Hobie 20 AND a Hobie 16!!
Learn on the 16 - it's pretty safe, tough and easy to solo, then take out the 20 when you have crew. At least for the first year or two. I have a 20 and love it - it's a rocket ;)
--
Tim Grover
1996 Hobie Miracle 20
Two Hobie 14's
1983 G-Cat Restored
Memphis TN / North Mississippi
-- -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Aug 18, 2003
- Last visit: Dec 13, 2023
- Posts: 880
Posted: Aug 06, 2014 - 05:09 PM
Or maybe target a P18.2, N5.7 or something like that. For some reason you feel that a 20 ft boat is what you need. Share that and I'm sure you'll get good advice here. -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Aug 18, 2003
- Last visit: Dec 13, 2023
- Posts: 880
Posted: Aug 06, 2014 - 05:24 PM
I second the idea of purchasing only one boat, if the learning curve allows it (not quite clear with a H20 as already said), but the key for that might be having some level of support from a more experienced sailor, both for ringging and for sailing. Some people are more intuitive than others, you could mess up with the mast hoisting or ringging and have a hard time before even touching water, for example. Which on the other hand could be quite smooth with someone supervising, just for a beer or for the talk. -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: May 09, 2014
- Last visit: Oct 20, 2015
- Posts: 103
Posted: Aug 07, 2014 - 11:02 PM
I'm in the same boat. Look for a Hobie Pacific. Performance and simplicity!
--
Ron
Big Bear Lake, Ca.
1990 Hobie 18 Worlds
1988 Mac 26Dagger
-- -
- Rank: Master Chief
- Registered: Jun 20, 2006
- Last visit: Apr 06, 2024
- Posts: 7088
Posted: Aug 08, 2014 - 07:17 AM
I have never heard or seen one of these. Looks pretty cool
-
- Rank: Lubber
- Registered: Jul 20, 2014
- Last visit: Jul 08, 2015
- Posts: 5
Posted: Aug 08, 2014 - 10:43 AM
Thanks to all for your awsome advice and assistance. To answer a few of the questions asked, let me try to clarify some points:
1. First I can get a 2006 H20 from a buddy of mine for about $3500 which looks like a pretty good deal to me. I've seen the boat: hulls good and hard, 1 main, two jibs. The main and one jib are excellent. Tramp looks good no rips or tears,...trailer with winch to step mast...
2. I live outside of Houston and have access to both the gulf and area lakes
3. I've rented small cats at the beach but would not say I'm experienced by any means
4. Would like to be able to take 2 couples; combined weight 650# (blame the guys not the ladies) on it occasionally. So I think I need a pretty good sized cat.
If you would allow me a couple of additonal questions:
1. Does anyone know an experienced sailor in my area who might be willing to work with me on the 20? I could pay them a bit, but could offer some fun, beer, ...
2. I'm very willing to spend whatever time is necessary to learn about the cat rigging, before I take it to the lake.
3. I don't want to throw my money away on something I won't be able to master for some time or will not enjoy. However, I love a challenge and feel I'm up to it with a little help from some experienced people like yourselves.
4. Does anyone know anyone in or anything about the "Texas City Dike Yaught Club"? It looks like they are a pretty active group. -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Jul 20, 2011
- Last visit: Apr 07, 2019
- Posts: 323
Posted: Aug 08, 2014 - 11:07 AM
Sounds like a good deal. You'll have an extremely hard time finding anything even close to a 2006 20 foot Hobie for $3500. It's big, fast and great in the ocean. I've had 650 lb on my H20 and it sails fine as long as the wind is steady. I regularly sail mine with >400lbs on board - zero chance of winning any races so I installed Hobie magnum wings. Tons of room to relax and sail fast at the same time.
Edited by fxloop on Aug 08, 2014 - 11:07 AM.
--
Tim Grover
1996 Hobie Miracle 20
Two Hobie 14's
1983 G-Cat Restored
Memphis TN / North Mississippi
-- -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Mar 19, 2004
- Last visit: Apr 12, 2024
- Posts: 960
Posted: Aug 08, 2014 - 06:41 PM
I hate to say this because it does sound like this could be a great deal and the H20 is a great boat, but this just sounds loke the wrong boat for your needs and where you are on the learning curve. Again, the H20 is a thoroughbred racer, not a training or cruising boat. It is complex, not easily depowered, and not tolerant of beginner mistakes. It is the F-1 race car of the Hobie lineup. It is possible that you could be a quick learner and get the knack of sailing the boat quicker than most people, but it is equally or more likely that the boat will kick your ass one day and totally turn you off. In fact, that's what happened to a lot of very experienced racers and one of the reasons the class has mostly died out. In my opinion, you would probably be better off with a boat like a Hobie 18 or a Getaway.
sm -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Dec 01, 2011
- Last visit: Nov 02, 2016
- Posts: 165
Posted: Aug 08, 2014 - 07:59 PM
Sm has a point. I would get the H20 and park it on your back yard for a year or two. Then get a H16 for cheap and learn to sail. Once you very comfortable on H16 you could give your H20 a go. H16 is build like a tank and very simple, but with a plenty of power in a good blow.
--
Jack B
Hobie 17
BC, Canada
-- -
- Rank: Master Chief
- Registered: Jun 20, 2006
- Last visit: Apr 06, 2024
- Posts: 7088
Posted: Aug 11, 2014 - 07:26 AM
it hit me yesterday ... buy the 20 and purchase a h16 mast/sail
use the 16 rig until you get the skills for the 20 rig
then resell the 16 mast and sail -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Aug 18, 2003
- Last visit: Dec 13, 2023
- Posts: 880
Posted: Aug 11, 2014 - 10:06 AM
Talk to this guy then....
http://thebeachcats.com/f…c/15203/start/0#pid52445 -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Mar 19, 2004
- Last visit: Apr 12, 2024
- Posts: 960
Posted: Aug 11, 2014 - 10:25 AM
Getting a Hobie 16 rig to work on a Hobie 20 is going to be a major PITA and expensive and probably wouldn't even "work" very well anyway. The mast base designs are completely different, the boom length, downhaul configuration, and sheeting angles for the main and jib are also completely different between the two boats. Plus shroud lengths would have to be customized as well as some other things I'm sure.
No, I do not recommend you even consider this approach.
Just get a boat that is appropriate for your current skill set and you will be happy in the long run.
sm -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Aug 18, 2003
- Last visit: Dec 13, 2023
- Posts: 880
Posted: Aug 11, 2014 - 10:33 AM
But why a H16 mast and not just a sail? He would just need to figure out how to deal with the halyard lock.
Anyway, putting aside the experience, the real challenge is to alternate between solo and the 650# two couples. A Getaway would do that but it's a family boat, much slower. Maybe the H. Pacific as suggested might do that, I don't know. Apparently with a lower compromise on speed. But not on the same budget, that's a new boat, right?
I think the most relevant factor to your decision is whether you really will be sailing solo most of the time. It doesn't sound a good idea then, independently of your experience. But if you will be sailing two or three most of the time, probably it's not that crazy, though a bit irresposible in the initial phase. I would say get a partner for that initial period or carefully chose ligth winds, if that is really possible. Also you should think about how to right the boat solo, I think you need a righting bar. -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Jul 20, 2011
- Last visit: Apr 07, 2019
- Posts: 323
Posted: Aug 11, 2014 - 11:04 AM
Don't know where your located or if you're even watching this thread anymore but a buddy and I put together a complete H16 with trailer you can have for $500. Would be a great learner/beginner boat. Located in north Mississippi.
--
Tim Grover
1996 Hobie Miracle 20
Two Hobie 14's
1983 G-Cat Restored
Memphis TN / North Mississippi
-- -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: May 09, 2014
- Last visit: Oct 20, 2015
- Posts: 103
Posted: Aug 11, 2014 - 11:31 AM
I agree with Tim! Grab a H16 for $500, earn your "Cat Legs", sail the snot out of it, then even if you sell it a year or two later for half of what you bought it for it would still be cheaper than taking sailing lessons for that same time period. (In actuality you probably will break even as cats in that price range move pretty quickly.)
Yes starting out with an advanced cat might not give you the experience you want and the fun factor will be at an all time low. Plus, when you get in a local club with your H16 you may meet up with H18 or H20 folk and hop a ride to see what it is like and not even like the job, or solidify that it is the right course.
Keep it simple at first is my opinion.
BTW an H16 will hold you and your wife just fine.
--
Ron
Big Bear Lake, Ca.
1990 Hobie 18 Worlds
1988 Mac 26Dagger
-- -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Aug 01, 2002
- Last visit: Jan 18, 2024
- Posts: 417
Posted: Aug 11, 2014 - 03:23 PM
There are good deals on Hobie 20s all over the place these days, so that's no reason to rush into a boat that might not suit you.
Hook up with the TCDYC folks at http://www.tcdyc.com/ (join their forum and introduce yourself). Lots of good folks, lots of different boats you can probably get a ride on, and lots of help getting started. They sail more often, but the first Saturday of the month is their standing date.
I can't tell you the number of people I've seen struggle horribly because they ran out and got a "good deal" when they had no idea about the model or condition of the boat they were purchasing. Afterwards they show up at our club full of friendly, knowledgeable, helpful people and get the bad news. Get to know your local sailors before purchasing.
If you proceed rationally, you won't have any trouble buying or selling at a fair price around Houston.
--
Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16
Clinton, Mississippi
-- -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Jul 20, 2011
- Last visit: Apr 07, 2019
- Posts: 323
Posted: Aug 11, 2014 - 10:54 PM
If your comfy doing this solo at around 9 Mph,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, go for it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB7KuJNwdiY
--
Tim Grover
1996 Hobie Miracle 20
Two Hobie 14's
1983 G-Cat Restored
Memphis TN / North Mississippi
--
