Here is the Given:
67 years old
Decent health with some osteoarthritis issues in knees and hip, but Motrin normally does the job.
6'4"
205#'s
Solo sailor, almost exclusively
Now in Chapel Hill, NC, 1.5 years, so lake sailing with frequent trips to the NC coast for the surf will be the venue.
Do not race, unless you try to pass me!!
Have had Hobie 14, 16, 18 back in my 20's and 30's. Then Cal 29 and bought a new Ericson 38 but never found them to equal a Cat in the fun arena. Hobie 16 was by far my favorite - 18 required a sailing mate and too bulky/heavy to solo sail/setup.
Have Windsurfed and most recently Kiteboarded when we lived in Naples, FL just before moving here.
Had to quite kiteboarding because of knees - they do take a real pounding with this sport BUT it was the most fun I've ever had and the most adrenalin I've ever pumped!
Want to get one last Cat!!
Goal:
Solo sail, fast and fly hull, surf and lakes.
Boat must be light enough to be single handed moved to/from trailer and righted when you've pushed flying that hull just a little too far but tough enough to stand up to the days of pounding the surf at the coast!
Plan on used as I'm not wanting to put too big of a dent in my IRA! Up to $5,000 would work BUT less is better.
Seeing lots of used Hobies, and a few Nacras and Prindles out there for very little money.
Always "lusted" for the Nacra 5.2 back when I was sailing the Gulf on my Hobies, but I've been away from the Cat evolution for too many years to know what is a GREAT solo sailing rig for my needs.
BUT, if this is going to be the last Cat, want it to be right!
Therefore, open to your guidance based on your PERSONAL experience.
One Last CAT!
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Posted: Jul 20, 2014 - 11:59 AM
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Posted: Jul 20, 2014 - 07:22 PM
You mentioned the Hobie 16 as your favorite and you're I'm sure used to Hobie rigging and handling you should consider a late model clean Hobie 17. Designed for a solo sailor and has nice comfy wings! I see them pop up at very reasonable prices. You could always get a new high performance sail to go really fast and still be way under $5k.
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Tim Grover
1996 Hobie Miracle 20
Two Hobie 14's
1983 G-Cat Restored
Memphis TN / North Mississippi
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Posted: Jul 20, 2014 - 07:23 PM
You sound like a candidate for an A class to me. A Boyer MKIV would fit your budget and toughness requirements .
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Greenville SC
Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
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Posted: Jul 20, 2014 - 10:26 PM
I second bacho's advice. I had a Boyer MKIII that I still miss! Durable by A cat standards, and stellar performance, that you can always improve on as your skill develops. -
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Posted: Jul 21, 2014 - 03:47 PM
I've just spent some time looking at the Boyer, which seems to one of the better A-Cats. Big concern I have is I want to take the cat to the coast to launch and sail off the coast. Worried that it won't take any beating in the surf like a Hobie, Prindle, Nacra would.
Am I wrong? The Boyer seems optimized for racing/competition, and that I just don't do or have any interest in.
I'll look into the Hobie 17. I've never seen one - didn't exist back when I had hair on my head and was sailing cats! -
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Posted: Jul 21, 2014 - 05:06 PM
Hobie 17 isn't fantastic in the surf, doesn't have the hull volume it should/could. Late models in clean condition are also tough to come by. I would still choose it over the Boyer, especially as the Hobie 17 rudder system is the same as the post 86' H18 system, which is an improvement on the Hobie 16 rudder system and fantastic in the surf...boyer, not so much.
If you can find a Taipan 4.9 or stretch a little for a Blade F16, I think those would be perfect boats for your use. Almost as quick as the A-cat for lake sailing, and much better off the beach than the A-cat or Hobie 17. -
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Posted: Jul 22, 2014 - 05:38 AM
Looked for the Taipan .... don't want to import it.
Will keep looking daily to see if one pops up.
On the Blade/Falcon, from the cats available that I found in this mornings search, that's going to come in substantially above what I'm willing to put into a cat at this point. Might stretch to 6K but considering what a used Nacra or Prindle sell for, and the fact that I'll never race it, hard to make a strong argument in favor of them.
Surprised no one has suggested a Nacra 5.0, maybe 5.2 or Prindle. I have read one post in my search saying the 5.0 was underpowered relative to it's weight.
But my big concern is a cat being strong enough to take the surf yet light enough to be solo sailed by a Senior Citizen ...... hauling to/from trailer, beach; righting, stepping the mast. -
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Posted: Jul 22, 2014 - 07:42 AM
You seem to be asking or a boat that's both lightweight and strong, and I think they're somewhat mutually exclusive. Any A cat or F16 is going to require beach wheels and great care to use in surf. The older, more affordable Nacras, Prindles and Hobies can survive beach landings, but are substantially heavier than the newer lightweight boats. You'll have to make some choices here.
dave -
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Posted: Jul 22, 2014 - 09:17 AM
Dave,
I think you "hit the nail right square on the head"!
Was hoping that in the last 20 years something had been developed that would do what I'm after.
In the absence of that, I'm back to a "surf cat" that can be handled solo (to/from trailer/beach; righted) and do reasonable well on the lighter air lakes.
Seems like there will be a market for the "Senior Cat" considering I can't be the only Boomer that is seeking the ideal.
OK, soo reluctantly accepting reality, what is the best of the older beach candidates?
Nacra 5.2/5.0
Prindle 16
Mystere 5.0 XL
Hobie 16/14 Turbo
?????
Jack
Edited by cleanlivin on Jul 22, 2014 - 10:17 AM. -
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Posted: Jul 22, 2014 - 10:37 AM
I think what was said above is spot on - you have to decide whether you want a light weight, top-end performance boat, or are you willing to sacrifice light weight and some speed for a more rugged design. Keep in mind also, that the more modern race boats are likely to be a bit more complex and time consuming to rig. I don't think you would want to be beach launching an A-Cat. One good tumble in the surf and the boat will be toast.
I am roughly your size (albeit a bit younger) and of the boats mentioned, I have experience on the Hobie 14 & 17 (also the Wave, but doesn't even sound like you're considering that). The 17 is a good all around boat and will give pleasing performance for most cat sailors. It has some unique features like the wings and self tending centerboards that make single handing a little easier. Overall, it is a pretty simple design and can be rigged fairly quickly. Its main drawbacks are 1) its weight and 2) the low boom. At your size, getting under the boom during tacks can be a bit rough. As far as weight is concerned, keep in mind that you can always lighten the load by making multiple trips (i.e., take off the sail, boom, and even the wings to make moving the boat easier).
The Hobie 14 is a classic design and in a breeze, is a total blast. Obviously, if you want to be the fastest boat on the water, you're not likely to be passing any other cats, but the fun factor is all there and the sensation of speed is very similar to larger cats. Rigging and moving the boat is a breeze.
sm -
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Posted: Jul 22, 2014 - 10:45 AM
Taipan 4.9 would be a great compromise between A-cats (165 lbs) and your typical beach cat crowd of Prindle's, Nacra's and Hobies. Taipan's are hard to find but only 230lbs & specifically designed to sail one up or two up.
This said, if your trolling in the Beach cat zone, consider a Dart 18. Built for the north sea so they are tough, large one design class in Europe (***but not in U.S) so parts are out there. Boomless rig, jib and weighs in at 285 lbs (Hobie 16 weighs 320lbs, H17-315 LBS, H18-400LBS., Nacra 5.0 325LBS., Prindle 16 300LBS.). Rates very near H16 in Portsmouth numbers and is also specifically designed to sail one up/ two up with choice of main only or main / jib. I launch & recover mine solo on a ramp with beach wheels. Gennaker is really not an option however.
Another consideration could be Mystere 4.3 (220lbs), Small boat but tricked out with Gennaker. -
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Posted: Jul 22, 2014 - 11:51 AM
Cleanliving, you've gotten some good input here, of course advice based on personal experience is always limited because most of us (except Dave Farmer) have not owned every beachcat!
I single hand a Hobie 18 a lot of the time, even racing. I am quite a bit bigger and slightly younger than you are without the joint problems.
That said, I can only launch and retrieve it solo when using a boat ramp. When solo on the beach I need lots of help dragging that beast (on beach wheels) across soft sand. I can even move it around pretty well on hard ground but actually getting the boat onto the wheels either needs help or a LOT of effort.
So my advice to after reading this thread and your previous replies is to go with a Hobie 16. In the 3-5K price range you can get a really nice late model boat that will be ready to sail. The H16 has less parts and lines to assemble, weighs a manageable amount and is ubiquitous as to availability and easy to resell.
There is not a better beach/surf boat and with all the modern spin boats people forget how over-powered a Hobie 16 really is. If you still lack for thrills (unlikely!) then add the Hobie Europe spin rig that was developed for the Hobie 16 Youth boat. That should put the scare back in!
Grab one and get on the water.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: Jul 22, 2014 - 11:57 AM
There IS such a boat, it's called the Hobie Wave, don't laugh, I know lots of 60+ lifetime hardcore racers who are enjoying sailing them and even buying there own and racing against the kids.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: Jul 22, 2014 - 02:19 PM
I sailed a Nacra 5.5 Uni for a couple of years. Plenty of power and easy to handle solo. Should be robust enough for a bit of beaching also. -
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Posted: Jul 23, 2014 - 06:27 AM
i'm still kicking myself for dithering to long on a Taipan 4.9 that came up locally last month. While I dithered,(paralysis by analysis) it sold. I need another Cat like I need...but damn, it was a Taipan!
The N 5.0 would be a great boat for what you want, with one caveat.
Do you sail light air conditions often?
Below 10 mph they are a bit underpowered, my 5.7 & 6.0XL walk away from the 5.0. in those conditions. Get a bit more wind & there is all the power you can hang onto.
They are a simple design, no boom no boards, & the modern version,(called the 500) has a spin option. Solo we make it touch 20 mph on the GPS. Large hulls, it's pretty resistant to pitchpole unless you really whip it on a broad reach in rough water.
I cannot right it @ 170lb without a bag, unless the wind is around 20mph. At 205, if you can plank right out it will come up. If light wind you may still need a small bag.
It will carry 2, your 205lb on the wire will be a good fit.
I watched a friend of Andrews,(MN3) whom I believe is 60+ solo his at Dunedin. He steps/unsteps the mast, 7 launches solo.
I don't have surf experience, but the skeg hull is pretty rugged, though not like the H16.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Jul 24, 2014 - 07:31 AM
I wouldn't laugh, we have a couple of gents come up from Orlando with highly modified Wave's (spinnakers) and they always have a good time and do well. We also have a Wave in our junior program and that boat takes some serious abuse, but the rotomolded plastic holds up well, just gets scratched
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Kenneth Purdy
Hobie 16
Nacra 5.2 (2)
Banshee
First Coast, Florida
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Posted: Jul 25, 2014 - 05:52 AM
Folks, this is clearly a topic to drive a person who is "blessed" with Analysis Paralysis totally BONKERS! Not saying that I am as I've been denying it to my wife for years and I'll be damned if I'll put it in writing to have it printed and posted on the refrigerator.
I can make an argument for and against every Cat we've discussed based on:
1. Will you be sailing predominently Light wind lakes or beach (taste of salt on your lips, a dolphin at your bow, etc.)
2. Structural strength of Cat - do you have to handle it with extreme care not to drag across the sand/gravel at waters edge.
3. Personal ability to deal with righting solo, just hauling the Cat to/from trailer, righting mast, getting your butt out of harms way because your "ole reflexes" are not what they used to be (Preventing a pitch pole)
4. Do you want to race (in my case, not unless you try to pass me)
5. Parts and availability to put back together what the venture of Cat sailing wears out.
6. Resale value ........ not really a concern in my case ....... as the topic title said, will be my last Cat. Wife will put my carcass on it, light the tramp and point it to the middle of the Atlantic.
This weekend I'll work on narrowing choices down to just two Cats.
Current list is:
Mystere 4.3 ----- know very little about this but from the few photos I've found it looks seductive. Not sure how "rugged" it is for the three or four trips a year to the NC coast to surf sail. Only 220# so I wonder about it's ability to deal with any beach conditions. Feedback appreciated!
Hobie 17 Sport with Jib; I want to learn a lot more about this one! Need feedback in line with the "given" in my original post please.
Nacra 5.2 --- keep reading 5.0 is dead in the water till you get at least 7 knots of blow)
Nacra 5.5 Uni - seems like this is a heavy boat to right solo????
Prindle 16 This one seems like a good compromise - rugged, not pitch pole obsessed as my H16 was, able to beach and lake (not sure how it deals with light air - anyone know?. Just not many out there for replacement parts.
Hobie 16 Been there, done that, Kissed that toad but still loved it with all of it's warts.
Thus, from a factor of "Lust", in the "Ole Days" every time a Nacra 5.2 left me in its wake off Galveston Island I swore I would one day own one. But, back when I was single I also said I'd date Christy Brinkley too ........ some things are best put into the category of "wisely unfulfilled" fantasies.
Edited by cleanlivin on Jul 25, 2014 - 06:59 AM. -
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Posted: Jul 25, 2014 - 07:55 AM
There is/was a mystere 4.3 for sale in the Columbia SC area.
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Greenville SC
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Posted: Jul 26, 2014 - 09:50 AM
There's a couple guys at my sail club that are your age on nice H17's that are grinning ear to ear every time I see them on their boats and one if them ( Mike Lodes ) wins races when he does compete. If I didn't love my H16 and H20 and solo a lot I'd pick one up myself.
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Tim Grover
1996 Hobie Miracle 20
Two Hobie 14's
1983 G-Cat Restored
Memphis TN / North Mississippi
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Posted: Jul 26, 2014 - 11:20 AM
There is a number of possible issue with H17 to look at while shopping for a used one. Older H17 would have a delaminated Mylar sail, wing pockets could be cracked if neglected, and centerboard hook tends to crack. If you search
http://www.hobiecat.com/f…dc8f4e6acfb4c2f57082ecf6
you will find this topic well covered.
H17 is a fast and fun boat to solo, but slows down if overloaded. The H17 SE tends to be underpowered in light air. The H17 Sport with jib addressees this issue. I've upgraded my H17 SE with a pentex squarehead, which is also bigger than the original. I personally like the simplicity of one sail. This is handy in a heavy air, when you have to to be quick, while tacking, and handling gusts, etc.
Best part of H17 are the wings. You can lean over to rest you back, sit on for extra leverage, or trap on the outside edge if you are brave enough. Once you try sailing with wings, you would not like a cat without wings. With your weight you will not need to use harness and trap until heavy air.
Good luck and post some picture once you get a short list
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Jack B
Hobie 17
BC, Canada
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