I've had the new cat out 3 times now and have found some minor issues:-
1) Trap setup is slightly different, on the old H16, I stood up on tramp, hooked in, stepped down onto rear hull and leaned out. On P18, you hook in sitting on tramp and have to push out using legs. Do you other sailors with tramp flush to hull decks do same?
2) rudders keep kicking up, do you adjust rudder lock-down tension using the lock bolt? how so?
3) adjusted rudder alignment according to manual yet I still have tremendous pull on rudders, what I think you term "weather helm" as the cat keeps trying to turn into wind. I did rake the mast back slightly, would this affect rudder alignment?
Other than that, after cleaning cat up have just been sailing her, am a little dissapointed in performance of P18 though, not any faster than my old H16. What say you men?
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TurboHobo
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P18
G-Cat 5.0
P16
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Prindle 18 Rudder Kick-Up
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Posted: Nov 01, 2010 - 05:34 PM
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Posted: Nov 01, 2010 - 07:04 PM
1, yes hang out over the side and then trap out. usually you are in the hiking straps first. using the T handle on the trap line is always good.
2/3 fasten the hook on the rudders, so the rudders are tighter. this will also decrease the weather helm. raking the mast has never had a positive effect on my P18.
The P18 does not feel as fast as the H16, it is definitely faster. The P18 is more stable and cuts better. The P18 is also much safer with the higher volume in the hulls and the more controls on the sails. remember that you need to drive this boat. when i solo trapeze i stand almost in front of the shrouds. My crew is alway with his foot against the front beam, except when reaching of course. then you move back to get the bows a little bit out. I have yet to pitchpole the P18. I have been up to 16 knots boat speed soloing on just the main. 15 on both main and jib.
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Stefan, Denmark.
H14,H16,P16,P18,SC17,N5.8
Team StaySail
http://www.staysail.eu
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Posted: Nov 01, 2010 - 08:41 PM
As for the rudder lock down, check the springs as they may need replacement. Also, check the lock down bolt, this is the one coming out of the rudder to see if the edges are sharp and they are aligned right. Also check the spring bolts to make sure they are not binding the springs.
Regarding the helm, raking the mast aft would get rid of that, and you may want to adjust your rudder rake a little bit, then your mast rake, then rudder rake etc... until you get a little pull. This is going to be a trial and error process. A good benchmark for forward rudder rake is 1/2 to 3/4 inch.
As for being faster than the H-16, I'll let others comment on this!
Edited by JohnES on Nov 01, 2010 - 06:42 PM.
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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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Posted: Nov 01, 2010 - 10:39 PM
johnES is right on...if your old lock down bolts are shot, they are ~30$ each. i made mine with a 4" grinder, a flat file, and a rat tail file.
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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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Posted: Nov 02, 2010 - 12:11 AM
Thanks for all the quick replys guys. As for my lock bolts, they look good, compared them with pics of new bolts, the spring bolts are loose enough that they are not binding the springs, and the springs themselves seem ok. But if I hold the rudder and pull, the rudder breaks free quite easy. Just wondering, the lock bolt is held in place by 2 lock nuts, 1 front, 1 rear; if I loosen off the forward nut, would I be able to rotate the lock-bolt up slightly? I think this would give the lock-bolt more purchase on the lock-pin. Or do the nuts just allow for adjustment on rudder rake?
Edited by turbohobo on Nov 01, 2010 - 10:13 PM.
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TurboHobo
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Posted: Nov 02, 2010 - 08:55 AM
They should lock awfully tight. One of my rudders pops from time to time, the other never does. It takes everything I've got to pop them with the uphaul line with the t-handle. -
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Posted: Nov 02, 2010 - 03:22 PM
the lockdown bolts can look fine and be shot. note the factory bolt in my hand as compared to the bolt i made(installed). i left more "meat" on the tips and adjusted release/lockdown tension with a flat file. they don't pop up at all and are raised w/out much effort. when i did the rudders, i put in fresh line, all new ssbolts/nuts/washers. cleaned up the slop and tuned according to the manual. my mast rake was about in the middle of the shroud chainplate and the helm was balanced beautifuly(slight weather helm). about mid summer i raked my mast way back(next to last hole bottom) and the boat got faster but i have more weather helm. i need to adjust the rudder rake more under the boat to compensate but that can wait til next year.
as far as faster than the hobie...not in light winds but when it blows and is rough, i love the prindle, way more stable.my favorite day is 20-25kts. and 5-7 seas. saw a few of those these past 2 seasons and if fuels my addiction!!
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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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Posted: Nov 02, 2010 - 06:50 PM
Sound like you need new springs and also check the bolts that go through the casting to make sure they are not bent, the one that does the actual holding. I'll bet if you replace all the nuts and bolts and the springs your problem should diminish.
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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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Posted: Nov 02, 2010 - 08:07 PM
It turns out that if you shorten the lock-bolt, raking the rudders under the hulls, the angle of upward tilt increases the locking force of the lock-bolt onto the lock-pin. Read through the owners manual again and there was info on lengthening the lock-bolt would increase weather helm, making steering heavier, and shortening the lock-bolt would decrease weather helm making steering easier. So I check my lock-bolts and they are as long as they could be, so I adjust the lock-bolt shorter and presto! my rudders lock down hard. Used a level to get a perpendicular line down from the transom onto the rudders using a pencil, then made sure the measurement from the leading edge of the rudder to the pencil line was equal on both rudders. So now my rudders are raked under the hull sweetly.
Sure could have used that info on Saturday, went down to Stockton Lake with a friend, wind was 15-20 MPH and we were smoking along, when the rudders were'nt kicking up that is. Maybe we get one more day of sailing.
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TurboHobo
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Posted: Nov 02, 2010 - 09:02 PM
you got it! you have to start with the rake proper then if they don't lock down, you have a problem. my old lock down bolts were shot and when i went to order some more they were on back order...indefinitely! so i got resourceful and got her done(had to make a dolphin striker too!). once you get through the prindle rudder learning curve, they work great. i'll probably do fresh lines again next year, 2 seasons has taken its toll.
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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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