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Getting back on after a capsize  Bottom

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  • Hi Everyonem,

    I think I posted a similar question before but here goes. A few weeks ago my wife got tossed from my boat (actually she slid off during a failed tack) and we discovered that she couldn't get on again.

    Sparing the details suffice to say she is a XXL, about 5 ft tall and isn't very strong. We spent the day trying to figure out the easiest way to get her back on the boat with minimal help (in case I get injured or something like that happens). Nothing worked, she couldn't get herself on without a huge amount of effort (strength you wouldn't have if you get tossed after sailing for a couple of hours).

    She couldn't use any of my tricks because they rely on a lot of upper body strength. I purchased a rope ladder, that didn't help at all because no matter what I did the ladder wants to go under the boat when you step on it and you fall back. I rigged a stirrup from the back beam and it almost worked but I still needed to basically haul her up with all my might.

    My next thought is to rig one of the trap wires with a fiddle block with 4:1 purchase and attach it to a harness (or rig up a loop to go under her armpits). Then get her to put one for in the stirrup and help her up using the block (or get her to help herself up).

    Any thoughts, tips, tricks? I can probably live with her needing a lot of help (at least we found one way that she can get on) but I worry that we will get into a situation where she is stranded in the water again. Besides the one thing that has bothered me with my cat is it is a real pain to get back onto after a capsize. Any ideas would be welcome.

    Regards,
    Dave



    --
    Dave Bonin
    1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
    1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
    --
  • You might try putting snap shackles on the top of the rope ladder, and hooking it to the trapeze hooks on the windward side. No idea if it would work, but sounds like something to try.

    --
    Rob
    OKC
    Pile of Nacra parts..
    --
  • I read somewhere that someone had successfully rigged two loops of line between the front crossbar and the bridle connection points. This allowed him to climb aboard easily. The loops were held out of the water by shock-cord.
    Sorry I can't recall more details, but it might be worth trying.



    edited by: dennisMe, Jun 21, 2010 - 11:27 AM
  • Push Ups?

    I am sure to have the same problem. I plan on doing a lot of ditching and righting on purpose this year and I'm a bit worried about it myself. But no matter how you put it a fair bit pulling especially for us bigger folks is gonna be required either by you or her. The amount of force needed to get on the boat stays the same weather your doing the work or she is unless like you say a mechanical solution can be found.

    I've been eyeing something like this at West Marine
    http://content.westmarine.com/images/catalog/large/142218.jpg
    http://www.westmarine.com…Num=10397&classNum=10398


    I'm not entirely sure where the best place to hook it would be. Probably best if it could be moved easy to where ever the person was or needed to board at.

    Another thought I had was similar to the loops of line in the front was some sort of front cargo net that used a heavy shock cord to keep the front of the net taught but if you came on at the front you could pull the shock cord low enough to step on and pull your self up on the net. A lot harder to implement especially trying to not have too much stress on areas that are not built for it.

    --
    Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
    Member: Utah Sailing Association
    1982 Prindle 18
    1986 Hobie 17
    1982 Prindle 16
    1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
    1976 Prindle 16(mostly)

    Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
    --
  • i would be very worried about putting stress on areas that are not designed for it i.e. dolphin striker, bow bridal fittings (these are built for stresses pulling up on them, not down) etc

    i sail with a 73 year old, he fell off his boat and i pulled up and offered to help him on board. he refused.. and couldn't do it.. he wont sail solo any more because he can't get up himself..
  • Dustin,
    One problem with those ladders/steps is that if you rig them below the bottom of the hull the will swing under the hull when you step on them, tipping you away from the boat. So far the best thing has been a loop of main sheet tied to the rear beam and over the hull, long enough so it is just at the bottom of the hull. This gives you something to step on and push your foot against to help you up. Ideally you would have a rigid ladder of some sort, but how to hook it up and store it is another matter. The stirrup may be the best idea I come across and I just have to live with using my weight to sink the stern and pull up on the wife's PFD.

    Andrew,
    Yeah that's a major concern. I've already put some pretty good gouges in my hulls with some failed attempts and was scared of snapping the daggers when I tried to use them with the rope ladder and as handholds. I think the beams are the safest place to put any sort of helper and the rear being closest to the water is probably the best place to get back on (although the rudders and cross bars make it very interesting).

    --
    Dave Bonin
    1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
    1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
    --
  • i have found personally grabbing a trap handle and swinging my feet up the side was the easiest way to get back on.

    of course i am to stubborn for easy and continue to try and lift my entire body up the hull... and pray my harness hook doesn't gouge a whole in my hull....
  • Yeah, that is what I do also. After some practice I was able to also just pull myself up over the side (usually gouging the grip strip on the side of my hull with may trap hook).

    The wife isn't strong enough to do either, so far getting her up requires a very convoluted series of movements and near capsizes. That's why I'm looking for a simpler way, but I suspect I am doing it the easy way.

    --
    Dave Bonin
    1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
    1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
    --
  • Dave, what about a ladder, rope or otherwise that would utilize two hooks that could be slipped into the grommets on the side of the tramp? By having rungs/handles that go right up to the tramp grommets the person overboard could get a good handhold inside the hull, while using leg strength to push the weight up. If it were a rope ladder, with solid steps,(wood or plastic)they are easier to climb than rope rungs. The boarding ladder on my power boat tends to swivel under the swim platform, as you have experienced. As long as people can grab the handles,(rails) on each side, & above the water, they seem to be able to board OK.



    edited by: Edchris177, Jun 21, 2010 - 06:18 PM

    --
    Hobie 18 Magnum
    Dart 15
    Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
    Nacra 5.7
    Nacra 5.0
    Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
    Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
    --
  • i have found ladders swing under and are hard to use. maybe at the front beam it would work.. but i haven't had much luck with that method.




    edited by: andrewscott, Jun 21, 2010 - 09:04 PM
  • Yeah, I have been looking at some rigid telescopic ladders and there simply isn't one that will work without 2 points of contact (at the deck and somewhere on a hull). I think that EC has a good idea in that I need to provide some positive handholds in addition to the foot stirrup. One of the things that is always an adventure is trying to find something to grab that won't stretch or move (trap lines, side loaders).

    I'm going to get some tow webbing and see if a flat stirrup will help and play with the rope ladder a bit (it has plastic rungs). I'm pretty sure I can get her back on the boat with the help of a stirrup and heaving her up by the PFD. Now I have to see if I can make it less of a major operation. The things we do...



    --
    Dave Bonin
    1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
    1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
    --
  • I'm glad you guys are discussing this. Friday we got knocked over by a gust and after struggling to get the boat upright (with help from a mast tip raise from the rescue jet ski) . I was looking at a high slippery wall of white Nacra hull with no purchase to climb up. My 16 year old son of course climbed up like a monkey. A) I need to get back in the gym, get the weight off and make up a stirrup system that I can bungee tight and out of the way when not needed. I also need to mount the darned righting bag I purchased,
  • Good posts here. I need more gym time too as I do struggle to get back on my H18. For the extreme cases, what about a long aluminum pole that attaches and pivots on the side of the front crossbar. It would be long enough to reach back and down to a ladder on the rear crossbar. This would hold the ladder from rolling under the boat. It could be lashed up out of the water under the tramp with bungees. I suppose the ladder could be lashed up under the tramp as well.

    Not very graceful for the performance sailor but may work for those who have no other alternative.

    --
    David
    Memphis, TN
    '84 Hobie 18
    --
  • Yes, so far the best answer I have found is a piece of mainsheet line (3/8" dia or larger) tied as a stirrup around the rear beam so that when it hangs over the hull the bottom of the stirrup is just at the bottom of the hull. This way you have a step to put your foot into, the hull keeps you from going under the hull and the rope on the hull can be used as a handhold. You can then also use the trampoline lacing to help pull yourself up. I have found the trap lines of limited value just becuase they tend to swing you out away from the boat while trying to get on this way. I will try and take some pics in the next week or so.

    D.



    edited by: Wolfman, Jun 28, 2010 - 04:45 PM

    --
    Dave Bonin
    1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
    1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
    --
  • I had to replace my righting line, so I found a 3/8" dock line with a 12" spliced loop on one end. When the crew (or I) need to board, we wrap the line around the mast base a couple of times and hang the loop end in the water to use as a step. Grab the mast and stand up in the loop. This is a lake method.

    There was another thread here (and photos) where some intrepid person made retractable loops that had a plastic step build in.

    --
    Sheet In!
    Bob
    ___/)________/)_______/)__/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
    Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
    Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
    AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
    (Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
    Arizona, USA
    --
  • Could work for you?

    http://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures/?g2_itemId=82796

    --
    Sheet In!
    Bob
    ___/)________/)_______/)__/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
    Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
    Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
    AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
    (Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
    Arizona, USA
    --
  • Great Thread! I was looking for some ideas after my third time sailing my dad flew into the mast on a pitch pole and broke his leg. It took every bit of my strength (I'm in pretty good shape) to pull his dead weight onto the tramp. I plan to flip alot (for practice and for fun) this year and something like this can come in handy.
    But I agree with the statements above about gym time and not just to climb back onboard. From what I have found sailing these cats can be physical.

    --
    Todd

    Virginia Beach, VA

    Nacra 5.0
    --
  • There's a technique used for rescue, using a net or a tarp. Fasten one side of the tarp to the boat, using the grommets & rope ties, put the overboard person on the tarp, parallel to the boat, grab the loose ends of the tarp, and roll them on board. May need lines tied to the loose ends of the tarp. I haven't practiced this, but have heard the technique described by those who teach it.

    --
    Chuck Miles
    1978 Hobie 16
    1991 Hunter 23.5
    TsaLaGi Yacht Club, Jackson Bay Marina
    Fort Gibson Lake, OK
    --
  • I was the one who built the rope step handle, and my wife (5 ft, 120 lbs) has tried it twice but couldn't get onboard with it. I think with practice she could. As folks have mentioned, the height setting needs to keep your foot from going under the hull, and it tends to swing around/pivot as you stand up, throwing you off balance. Maybe if the step were tied off in two places a couple feet apart, it would be more stable. Also, a solid hand hold is important. My wife was scrabbling at the sides trying to find anything to grab when she tried it. I don't like the idea of climbin up over the rear beam with the rudders and tiller crossbar in the way. And the front beam has nice things to grab onto, but working your way around there in wind and waves would be a challange and maybe dangerous. Also, if you are by yourself, it has to be accessible after you fall overboard, so you can't have it stowed away. We are close, we'll think of something that works well!

    --
    John Fricker
    Prindle 16
    Seabrook, Texas
    --
  • Lacking upper body strength? I would install a can of spinach near the rear beam to correct that!

    This is a problem I have run into as well. I can easily get back on my boat, but my crew is another story when combined with the boat trying to sail away. I have normally resorted to pulling them over the side as mostly dead weight.

    --
    Greenville SC

    Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
    --

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